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Okay, here's where I'm at on this.

Space Marines/Eldar are Comes the Apocalypse (CtA) allies with Chaos Daemons.

CtA Allies cannot deploy within 12" of one another.

Conjured units arrive by Deep Strike.

Deep Strike is a form of deployment. (The rules for it reference 'deploying' by Deep Strike several times.)

No Conjuration has a range greater than 12".

Therefore, Daemons cannot be summoned by Space Marines/Eldar.

Have I missed a step? Someone told me that this was on par with the 'Flying Monstrous Creatures in 6th didn't have Relentless OR Smash because the comma was missing' argument. But the RAW seemed pretty clear to me, and it DOES kind of make sense from a fluff perspective.

Is there a rule I've missed somewhere? Something that removes the 12" no-man's-land from CtA allies after the pre-game deployment? Something that suspends it for summoned daemons? I know it's a new book, but I can't turn up anything.

summoned units (along with every other sort of model) are counted as part of the faction derived from the codex they are found in. Daemons are even used as a specific example of this in the relevant rule.

Ergo, yeah eldar and space marines summoned daemon's auto-mishap. (due to the interaction of being unable to be deployed within 12" of the psyker 'and' the deep strike rules themselves)

 Neorealist wrote:
summoned units (along with every other sort of model) are counted as part of the faction derived from the codex they are found in. Daemons are even used as a specific example of this in the relevant rule.

Ergo, yeah eldar and space marines summoned daemon's auto-mishap. (due to the interaction of being unable to be deployed within 12" of the psyker 'and' the deep strike rules themselves)

I don't think the Deep Strike rules specify a mishap in that instance. I just think it's an illegal deployment all around. (Can't be done.)

So gate of infinity and veil of darkness are deployment as well

 CrownAxe wrote:
So gate of infinity and veil of darkness are deployment as well

Yep. And you wouldn't be able to do either of those within 12" of a CtA ally either. Unless there's something I missed...

This is true, if you view the list of possible options in the deep striking section that cause mishaps as all inclusive than you are left with the unit being unable to deploy in general.

In any case, the answer to the OPs question is that the unit is prevented from working properly in his scenario because of the new 7th ruleset for allies.

Count Adhemar from the Dark City forums summed it up nicely;
"Editor is a purely ceremonial role at Games Workshop."

You missed something.

"the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike, within the power’s maximum range" (496 Digital BRB) They arrive, they are not deployed. Deployment has very specific rules and all of them occur before turn 1, Conjurations happen well after deployment, and do not say they are deployment, so they are not.

Also, the Desperate allies rules are talking about deployment at the start of the game. So you missed the context there as well as the unit not being deployed.

"but cannot deploy within 12” of each other when they are deploying for battle."(704 Digital BRB) That restriction is only when deploying for battle.

and the Nail in the coffin...

"The only thing that remains to be done is the deployment of the two armies. If you are using a Warhammer 40,000 mission, it will tell you how to deploy the armies taking part in the battle." (715 Digital BRB)

You deploy for battle before the game begins and before the first turn as a future section dictates.

Therefore SM and Eldar can summon demons just fine.

Okay...just playing Devil's Advocate...why then do you think that the Deep Strike rules continuously and throughout refer to the placement of models via Deep Strike as 'deploying' them?

 Jimsolo wrote:
Okay...just playing Devil's Advocate...why then do you think that the Deep Strike rules continuously and throughout refer to the placement of models via Deep Strike as 'deploying' them?

Because that is what deep strike normally is, a way for units to deploy since that is what reserves is for. Its just typical games workshop writing to be vague and non-specific about things (like how they'll refer to blasts markers as templates but that doesn't make them ignore cover)

Okay, so how did the daemons get onto the board if they DIDN'T deploy?

I'm fine if this is something like the Drop Pods in Reserve issue, where we're all going to agree to play it one way even though it isn't RAW. I'm just trying to figure out what the RAW, and what the RAI, are in this case.

Because "deploy" is an english word that fits in that situation. As well as being the process at the beginning of the game.

Think of Level in DnD.... different uses, different levels.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Okay, so how did the daemons get onto the board if they DIDN'T deploy?

I'm fine if this is something like the Drop Pods in Reserve issue, where we're all going to agree to play it one way even though it isn't RAW. I'm just trying to figure out what the RAW, and what the RAI, are in this case.

Irrelevant - they are nto deploying at the preparing for battle stage, meaning the 12" rule does not apply.

Red herring. While units do deploy prior to the battle starting, they also deploy as part of deep-striking onto the board. The two are not mutually exclusive like your statement indicates.
"...arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows..."

'Deploying for battle' is not a rules-defined term. While there is a 'Preparing for Battle' section and it does indeed include a 'Deployment' step, there are other ways in which a unit can be deployed too.

Not a red herring at all.

Deploy in general vs deploy at a specific time. That time, in context, is the general deployment of your army.

An argument ignoring context is an unsupportable argument

'for battle' doesn't not explicitly indicate a specific time-frame. There is no 'for battle' turn, phase, or any other indication of rule-specific sequence inherent in the phrase,

Incorrect. "deploying for battle" indicates before turn 1, i.e. when everything else is deploying. To indicate any time during the game it would say "during battle" or similar.

Can you indicate which rule you believe indicates that? (that 'deploying for battle' = 'before turn 1') As so far as I've been able to determine there is no such rule which supports your contention.

Context, and language used. As there is no 40k defined term, that is all that is needed. You cannot deploy "For" battle if the battle is already underway.

I have explained my reasonsing, cite your reasoning why you can ignore the context of the rule, and decide that this is after the side has already deployed.

I can ignore what you say the context is (which is an inference at best given there is nothing specific to equate the two) in favour of a literal interpretation of what the rule actually states.

The rule indicates 'come the apocalypse' factions cannot deploy for battle within 12" of each other. Given there is no 'explicit' reason to consider 'for battle' to represent any one of a few different time-frames deployment can take place and there are a few ways in which models can be deployed, a conservative reading of the rules-as-written (aka, not adding anything that isn't actually explicit) would apply it to all of them.

Ah, so you will ignore the context the sentence is embedded in, and apply it to to the game as a whole.

Deploying for battle != deploying during battle. The words are important here, and youre ignoring them.

Possibly a US-style English thing?

Not being American I wouldn't know what sort of inference you believe I'm missing, but I can assure you I understand you quite clearly.

you believe the word 'for' implies some sort of chronological sequence. There is no particularly compelling support for this, not in the plain English definition of the word, nor much more relevantly in the rules of 40k itself. It is pure supposition. 40k already has a rules-specific phrase to indicate before battle has commenced, it's written as 'Before the Game Begins' and is certainly not used within the context of either the 'come the apocalypse' rule nor the 'deep strike' one.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
[...]Deploying for battle != deploying during battle. The words are important here, and youre ignoring them.[...]

If you are deploying in turn 5, are you not deploying for battle? Are you deploying for tea? Horseback riding?

you are deploying during battle.

Neo - again, the context i.e. more than jus tthe one word youre hung up on, indicates otherwise. You can claim this is unimportant, bu tthe plain reading hAS to take into account the setting.

I'm sorry, but the semantic difference your stance is hinging on between 'for' and 'during' just has no specific support to be found within the 40k rules. A unit can be said to be arriving 'for' battle 'during' (or 'midway through', or even 'after' for that matter) a battle has commenced and still have the speaker be completely grammatically and logically correct.

Why do you claim summoned daemons are allies?
Come the apocalypse is for allied forces, bound by the rules for adding an allied detachment.
This whole discussion is absurd.

 Fayric wrote:
Why do you claim summoned daemons are allies?
Come the apocalypse is for allied forces, bound by the rules for adding an allied detachment.
This whole discussion is absurd.

Yep. And if not being able to summon those creatures was the intent of GW, why did they allow such armies to roll on Malefic?

Neo - not in the context that the whole setting is in, however. That is clearly, to my plain reading at least, discussing pre-game actions, such as initial deployment of forces. Not during game actions. I am not hanging on one, single word, so maybe your rebuttal can stop focussing on it? Liek your argument, it is removing context.

Summoned daemons have a faction, but I can't see what detachment they belong to. CTA is for detachments, not sure it will affect summoned things as summoned things are not placed into a detachment.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Okay...just playing Devil's Advocate...why then do you think that the Deep Strike rules continuously and throughout refer to the placement of models via Deep Strike as 'deploying' them?

Deep Strike does refer to itself as deployment because usually a unit is in reserves and deploys via deep strike.

But the Desperate allies rules are talking about deployment at the start of the game, not about using gate of infinity, the Stormraven or Vendetta's DS rules or conjuration spells.

Deployment has very specific rules and all of them occur before turn 1.