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 Cyporiean wrote:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ericsexton/war-prime-tabletop-miniatures

- No Rules
- No Mention of actual material used
- Unrealistic Funding Goal

It costs $20 more to pledge for two army sets as opposed to one...

At this point KS is no longer a new mythical beast... It's been out for ages, there are a large number of really good blogs, videos, etc. out on it's use. There really is no longer an excuse for launching a project like this.

Buying 2 or 3 army sets is more expensive than buying 1 in order to account for shipping, according to the creator, but then it magically gets cheaper to buy 4 army sets...

 Alex C wrote:
Buying 2 or 3 army sets is more expensive than buying 1 in order to account for shipping, according to the creator, but then it magically gets cheaper to buy 4 army sets...

I saw the creators comments.... I think they really need to reconsider their pricing...

 Cyporiean wrote:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ericsexton/war-prime-tabletop-miniatures

- No Rules
- No Mention of actual material used
- Unrealistic Funding Goal

That setup didn't work out well for Fallen Frontiers...

 Alpharius wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ericsexton/war-prime-tabletop-miniatures

- No Rules
- No Mention of actual material used
- Unrealistic Funding Goal

That setup didn't work out well for Fallen Frontiers...

Indeed. I'll be surprised if this makes it's (warhammer) 40k funding goal.

Those three factors certainly get alarm bells ringing. As others have alluded to Kickstarter is not a new, shiny, thing any more and those three issues should be dealt with already. I think that backers are generally a lot more savvy with where and how they invest their cash. Too many people have been burned by backing projects that will likely never see fruition (hello Defiance), have major delays (a good few CMON examples here) or where the final product is not to the expected level (probably Robotech).

The thing is if the Warprime creators had addressed these issues with the clamour for 40k proxies/alternatives they would have smashed their funding goal already. I think proceeding with extreme caution on this KS is the way to go.

 Alex C wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ericsexton/war-prime-tabletop-miniatures

- No Rules
- No Mention of actual material used
- Unrealistic Funding Goal

That setup didn't work out well for Fallen Frontiers...

Indeed. I'll be surprised if this makes it's (warhammer) 40k funding goal.

This also reminds of CorpseHammer, but with better sculpts, which also tried to be a 40k killing 40k clone.

Its a shame about what OnePageAnon brought up, with the rules being a bland 40k clone. Hopefully they can get their act together and fix these issues.

From the kickstarter video:

"I have been working in video games and painting miniatures for 20 years, and i am here to talk to you about my new line of miniatures. I am using my 20 years of game development knowledge to create a new line of miniatures."

Eric worked in video games as an "artist, animator, and designer". How does this knowledge translate into creating a new line of miniatures in a completely different market?

"About a year ago i started getting back into painting miniatures and realized just how expensive it had become. Looking at the price of materials involved, i felt like the high price in miniatures just didnt make any sense. We are not going to spend a lot of time and money building full color boxes that just get thrown away."

Does this take into account the price of tooling, or have they found a way around it? Also how much time and money can really be saved by not having "full color boxes"?

"My goal is simple: create awesome minis at affordable prices so that everyone can enjoy tabletop gaming. I want to invite you to join me in building this universe."

Am i the only one who finds it odd that the video is so centered around him, and not around the team as a whole?

Shaky selfie-cam doesn't lend much to the credibility either.

Still waiting to see examples of work from this awesome USA-based manufacturer he refers to.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Its a shame about what OnePageAnon brought up, with the rules being a bland 40k clone. Hopefully they can get their act together and fix these issues.

Actually, the rules are not even that. I would take a well-designed ruleset that is similar to 40k á la Warpath 2.0 over what i read here any day. Of course we should remember that this is just a development build and things are subject to change. I even offered my services (what with OPR moving toward 7.000 downloads by the end of the month), but i was shot down. As Thraxas said: "I think proceeding with extreme caution on this KS is the way to go."

Anyway all of this just reminds me how sad it is that a great looking game like fallen frontiers fell through.

I am increasingly thinking that these new companies should get traditional investment to produce 1 core sprue/boxed set and get it to retail. After that they can Kickstart the rest of the line giving the backer some confidence to invest their money as they have already produced a finished product. That way a lot of the issues that seem to crop up during fulfillment could be avoided as the creators already have the necessary business relationships in place.

I hope that the Warprime creators prove me very wrong and create a great game, with top rules and stunning miniatures. I just feel like they are rushing into it without a lot of the most basic aspects of the business covered.

I would be over joyed if these concerns could be met. I mean I want this to succeed with great overfunding but I do not think that has any chance of happening without more support/questions answered asap. I really do hope that the creators take a read over some of the comments and take advice. Any help they can get would be good to avoid an unfortunate Fallen Frontiers scenario.

Looking at the kickstarter:

The problem for me is, if I wanted a cheaper, 40k alternative why wouldn't I just play Warpath?

It's cheaper, the rules are already out, and it comes in a shiny box. The pictures they've shown aren't all that impressive. The minis look kinda of meh, and as we've all learned from relic knights, nice CAD renders to not always equal a good miniature.

Here is the thing, and this is just a general question (not trying to be a dick or anything), but does wargaming really need warprime?

There are plenty of companies already that offer quality proxys that are affordable and look great.
There are plenty of companies already that offer bulks of proxys that are extremely cheap.
There are plenty of companies already that offer 28mm squad-sized sci-fi games with this aesthetic.

So i am not really sure what the appeal is. If it had an amazing look to it, or amazing rules, or anything that could be defined as amazing then i would understand. Right now i am just confused.

 OnePageAnon wrote:
Here is the thing, and this is just a general question (not trying to be a dick or anything), but does wargaming really need warprime?

There are plenty of companies already that offer quality proxys that are affordable and look great.
There are plenty of companies already that offer bulks of proxys that are extremely cheap.
There are plenty of companies already that offer 28mm squad-sized sci-fi games with this aesthetic.

So i am not really sure what the appeal is. If it had an amazing look to it, or amazing rules, or anything that could be defined as amazing then i would understand. Right now i am just confused.

Exactly, Basically what is their unique selling point? If its just a clone with nothing different to add it doesn't bode well for its long term future.

Plus as has already been said, without the basics of the material being explained it won't do well

$40k is actually a realistic funding goal if they want to create this, but that's assuming they're not going with steel molds for plastic injection. It's a big project, and thus the larger goal. I can't fault them for being realistic in this regard.

There are rules, as others have posted about. But why they've chosen not to show them is beyond me. Even in an early state, having rules is a huge plus for kickstarters, especially in this day and age where people want to know that the game they're kickstarting has it together. As posted above, the rules are apparently a clone of a fan version of 40k.

Not talking about material is another issue. As a developer myself I understand the very real reasons why you might be hesitant to set a material, but it's best to just lay out the material options and specifically say that it's all based on the funding. Then, make it a stretch goal to have the game produced in materials that people like. Restic as the lowest goal, maybe resin or metal as one above that, or just have a series of large stretch goals with no rewards other than a unit already shown is converted to injection plastic.

I do notice that they, at least, have changed the color scheme for the human "space marines" to grey and gold, instead of the more blatant GW Ultramarine copies of blue and gold.

Only 24.2% is allocated to mold cost? Even in China, $9680 will only buy you about 60% of a single wargame-level mold from what I've heard, and in the US that will easily be an extra 50% of cost on top of that. I hate to be negative, but this will not be HIPS without 10x the funding at least, so I hope they have outside funding on top of this!

Just to add to the overall feeling, there's nothing here to make me want to put my hand in my pocket.

The sculpts so far are sub-mantic.
The price is slightly lower than mantic but paying now for delivery in a year cancels that out.
There are no rules yet.
The fluff so far is cack.
There is no confirmed material and the comments in this thread suggest they don't understand the issues around material choice.
The funding targets look unrealistic.
The 3d prints look fairly poor realizations of decent concept art.
The paint jobs scream amateur and make me think that level of quality will permeate the project.

This sort of project makes me look positively at mantic and after pledging for dreadball that's some achievement. If it funds at about it's funding level I'll watch with popcorn on hand as I await a crash.

And where is the mini next to an actual ruler!!!!!

Nothing here is making my wallet nervous.

So far this whole project just screams "Halo-" or "WoW-killer" to me, and we can all see how all those turned out(both franchises are still around for starters). Even the fact that they're from the video games industry suggests it, but shouldn't that tell them they need something unique and fresh to make it work?

Other than the 3D prints of the humans, have we seen any models o the other factions? I noticed the "starter" was to include the Kelp and the Cosmos Marines, but have they shown anything new yet?

Is there any point in going too hard on this one, surely it'll never fund? It seems a lot more like an elaborate prank than a real KS.

"War Prime" alone is enough. The background is derivative, the designs are generic, 3d prints are cheap and the paintjobs cheaper. Awful presentation of product.

It's setup like a business proposal from a bad 90s movie. Headshots? Seriously, headshots?

A pie graph that seems farcical, apparently 9.2% of their funding goal will be for 'marketing', anyone want to venture a guess what on earth that actualy means? Are they seriously suggestion they will take almost $4000 dollars from their funding goal to market a product they have already sold and advertised or are they taking it back for past expenses?
12% is for shipping despite international shipping costing extra, $4800 for US shipping ?
6.2% for 'damages'! That's almost $2500 worth of product they are apparently anticipating being broken by the blind lepers they've apparently hired to pack their parcels.
7.7% for 'fulfillment. Uhm, what? They're just adding random words that sound kickstartery at this point.

Prod me in a few weeks so I can find out if I participated in a weird episode of Punk'd.

First let me say that I'm not a fan of the sculpts except maybe the "lancer" not-heavy bolter.

Material:

We have worked hard to find a manufacture in the USA that makes polystyrene miniatures and we are happy to say we have succeeded.

The minis are made with plastic so it is recommended that you buy a hobby primer that is safe to use on plastic.

That seems to indicate that it's going to be, well polystyrene.

Scale:

Our miniatures will be scaled to the same size as the most popular 28mm miniatures games. This means that most humans will be approximately 28mm to eye level while other units like our heavy armored Lancers will be closer to 32mm.

Price point will be 24 models for $40 in a starter....not too bad and Dreamforge and Mantic are able to do something similar. As to speculation about the funding goal; they could have other funding sources or expect their initial goal to be smashed. Either way, it's fairly obvious (as has already been pointed out) that the $40k is a poke at GW and not indicative in any way of what it would cost to actually manufacture their current sculpts.

Looking at it a bit more, the Kelk are growing on me.

They've given themselves a fairly cushy lead-time with a year delivery date.

Edit: I've ticked the "remind me" button just in case I see something later on..

Update claims War Prime has been a thing in one form or another for 10 years....

So...... College notebook sketches? Failed video game concept?

I wish them luck but I think this will be an uphill battle.

I'm really feeling like KS's are becoming "go big or go home" .. and the best bet for new wargames is to start small and affordable, build a following for a year or so, and then do a campaign to expand upon what's already out there.

that and make sure all of these common questions are answered before anyone needs to ask them.

 Alex C wrote:
So...... College notebook sketches? Failed video game concept?

From a conversation with the developer: "The game universe was originally designed as a Pen and Paper RPG using the d20 system."

I'm just going to have to bear the Fallen Frontiers cross forever. Another sci fi kickstarter with models I like (the background is terribad though) with absolutely no gameplay or rule details and shady as feth manufacturing details.

I'm stuck in some sort of Battlestar Galactica kickstarter experiment, where all this has happened before and will happen again. Why god/s, why?

Zond wrote:
I'm just going to have to bear the Fallen Frontiers cross forever. Another sci fi kickstarter with models I like (the background is terribad though) with absolutely no gameplay or rule details and shady as feth manufacturing details.

I'm stuck in some sort of Battlestar Galactica kickstarter experiment, where all this has happened before and will happen again. Why god/s, why?

too be fair to ff the figures were very cool, the rules did need work and they should have been upfront about the material and scale before hand.

For this ks the figures look terrible, the rules are non existent on the ks site and the material is a mystery considering the sprueless hips that has been mentioned.

Id still back ff again, this I wouldnt touch

imho of course.

The Kickstarter equivalent of that scene in Blazing Saddles with the fake Rock Ridge.

 edlowe wrote:

Zond wrote:
I'm just going to have to bear the Fallen Frontiers cross forever. Another sci fi kickstarter with models I like (the background is terribad though) with absolutely no gameplay or rule details and shady as feth manufacturing details.

I'm stuck in some sort of Battlestar Galactica kickstarter experiment, where all this has happened before and will happen again. Why god/s, why?

too be fair to ff the figures were very cool, the rules did need work and they should have been upfront about the material and scale before hand.

For this ks the figures look terrible, the rules are non existent on the ks site and the material is a mystery considering the sprueless hips that has been mentioned.

Id still back ff again, this I wouldnt touch

imho of course.

Pardon my ignorance but they do say "polystyrene" on the KS page; does this include anything other than "hard" plastic?

Thanks.

 agnosto wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but they do say "polystyrene" on the KS page; does this include anything other than "hard" plastic?
Thanks.

It originally did not say polystyrene.

Earlier in this thread (page 3 or 4) they said they were looking for a USA based manufacturer, but the models would not be on sprues.