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2014/07/01 15:58:27
Subject: Re:MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
You already have the option of a "paid item store" where likely NOTHING will have level requirements.
So yeah, it's going to be Pay to Win.
The best option is to have paid items begin restricted to cosmetic equipment and the like. The second best outcome would be something like World of Tanks but that remains to be seen.
WoT has tanks that you can buy in most tiers and they are better in terms of being able to make more in game money, cheaper to repair etc but in terms of relative power they are pretty average, some are even sub par and the few that are too powerful have a habit of being removed from the store.
I have no idea if Eternal Crusade can manage to do as well as WoT's model given the almost complete lack of information available but F2P games tend to do very poorly in this area so the onus is very much on Behaviour Interactive to show that the game will not be pay to win. As I have already said I have my doubts although I have much more serious doubts about the quality of the actual game itself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 15:58:44
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2014/07/01 18:30:53
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
F2P games do amazing. No video game model is more successful than F2P with the sole exception of WoW - and some F2P games (in Asia) even do more than WoW.
Sigvatr wrote: ...and the free race is considerably weaker than SM
The devs have said that a good Ork player should be able to take out a Marine one to one.
But they have also said that the power ratio is 3:1 in favour of the Marines. Which is fitting to the TT game but will make a lot of free players quit and others pay to unlock SM.
Paid Ork players will potentially act as mobile spawn points and AoE buffers. IF the greenskins can get a decent sized zerg going things might work.
My biggest fears for this game are that there will be a mass of Marines or that many players will try and folks simply avoiding a fight.
Behaviour are going to have to work hard to make the Xeno races attractive. So good zerging mechanics for the Orks, lots of character anf fun. Eldar having the ability to be more hit and run and offering the option for female characters (other than just Banshees).
I remain hopeful yet sceptical. WAR made a lot of promises but failed because they tried to make too big a play area and had odd notions of balance. And out right lied to fans.
I would love this game to work but it isn't going to be easy. Behaviours seem to be trying to be honest and clarify things but some questions that have come up are things they should have thought of before speaking. I get that they want to involve people very early on but with things changing so rapidly and the confused comms they aren't helping themselves.
I got involved with Planetary Annihilation at quite early on...and the guys at Uber got their point across more professionally.
I remain hopeful yet sceptical. WAR made a lot of promises but failed because they tried to make too big a play area and had odd notions of balance. And out right lied to fans
Most of which came about due to the fact EA forced them to release far too early to get on that mmo gravy train they thought they would get, they didn't have two classes implemented or a main city up yet!
But they have also said that the power ratio is 3:1 in favour of the Marines.
They also said that this was in comparison to a standard Ork Boy, while better equipped boy and Nobz can fight pretty well.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/02 12:11:22
2014/07/02 12:12:11
Subject: Re:MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Games Workshop's Warhammer universe is so vast it's hard to believe that Warhammer 40000: Eternal Crusade is the first MMO based on 40K. Developed by Behaviour Interactive, Eternal Crusade is a long way from release, giving the likes of myself plenty of time to catchup on at least one fragment of Warhammer lore. Nevertheless, Mike and I got a very early (and very brief) look at the title.
Behaviour, which has homes in both Montreal and Chile and is one of Canada’s largest independent studios and has previously developed for big names such as Disney, Activision Blizzard, Bethesda, Ubisoft and others, but are now focusing on their own work, including Eternal Crusade. Described as a massive combat RPG in a grim and bloody, everyone-will-die "space fantasy" (not sci-fi, as the developers were quick to point out) setting, the campaign's story was written by best-selling author Graham McNeil, responsible for Warhammer 40000 and some 36 novels. As a player, you won't be fed the story via cutscenes, but instead discover it piece by piece through your actions.
Currently, the game would be hosted in a single server without a need for separate instances, with up to 1000 players in a single battle, although this only applies to PvP. It's also the first title to embed Razer's VOIP software in-game, so players need not resort to text chat or look for external voice chats, such as Teamspeak, to communicate with their teammates. Exactly how large-scale will the game world be? To run across 400 kilometres will take players 45 real-time minutes.
The PvP-centric title will offer up four classes of the Warhammer variety rather than the traditional MMO roles of tank, DPS and healer. Rather, factions consist of savage Orks, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and mysterious Eldars, with each having at least four chapters available at launch. The hive mind Tyranids will also make an appearance as NPCs, but you want to watch out for them as you gain more territorial control. Boltguns, chainswords, riot shields, jump packs, psychic powers and more lay at your disposal, whether you're in open-field combat or breaking into a stronghold, and there are also tank fights to be had, though be aware that friendly fire is turned on. As combat is more action and skill-based than level-based, you will have access to unlockable classes, various skills, and loadout options depending on your playstyle, and equipment dependent on the faction you choose.
Each player starts out with their own orbiting Strike Cruiser, a key personal space for teams to regroup in between battles. Players group up into squads of 4-10 players, and leaders as well as commanders issue orders and ask for support, such as calling tanks into battle. Sure, you don't have to follow his or her orders, but you're rewarded for doing so. Hierarchy isn't limited to the battlefield however, as Eternal Crusade will feature a campaign system and territorial control. There will frequently be new goals and objectives to fulfill as well as two PvE modes available at launch, including a horde-mode type as seen in Gears of War.
Currently, the plan is to make Eternal Crusade a buy-to-play title, with a free-to-play option to play as an Ork. Even now, players have the ability via the Founder Program to purchase points to acquire in-game items in the Rogue Trader (with new items being added constantly), as well as options to purchase some unique weapons. There are options to fit all kinds of player budgets, and naturally, the more points you buy, the better deal you receive in return.
So how does the game look so far? While we did get a glance, Eternal Crusade is in its very early stages, so much of the limited footage had mostly placeholders in the environments, but what little we did see involved some pretty intense combat. As Behaviour Interactive plans to show the game little by little by way of teaser videos over the next eighteen months, we cannot expect a full launch before late 2015 for PC, Mac and SteamOS; the team hopes to release it on next-gen consoles as well. Will it satiate any craving Warhammer fans might have for an MMO in their universe? It's far too early to tell, but I would definitely keep an eye on this one by way of its recently-opened official website, though we'll keep you updated as well.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2014/07/02 13:56:54
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Ork boys were also said to power up when mobbed up so a large group of them is more powerful than going solo, though we'll see how well it works in practice once released.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/07/02 16:14:19
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
But they have also said that the power ratio is 3:1 in favour of the Marines.
What a terrible mechanic. It may be 'realistic' but making F2P customers, many of whom will be using the free game as demo, mere fodder is not going to entice people to stay with the game.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2014/07/02 16:54:08
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
But they have also said that the power ratio is 3:1 in favour of the Marines.
What a terrible mechanic. It may be 'realistic' but making F2P customers, many of whom will be using the free game as demo, mere fodder is not going to entice people to stay with the game.
I disagree. All P2W games rely on such a mechanic where paying customers gain a significant advantage over non-customers and the latter might then be motivated (by frustration) to get on their level. Or just quit the game altogether.
The decision to go for all business models at once was (is) not a good idea. You will be reduced to F2P, as there is such an option, and from that perspective, this would be one of the harshest P2W systems out there.
Sigvatr wrote: I disagree. All P2W games rely on such a mechanic where paying customers gain a significant advantage over non-customers and the latter might then be motivated (by frustration) to get on their level.
A pay to win game is not what anyone wants, not even the devs if they want the game to have any kind of longevity, and as such this really is a terrible mechanic.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2014/07/02 22:06:02
Subject: Re:MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Medium of Death wrote: PVP will probably have bigger Ork teams if that's the case. I could see people getting behind that if it's well done.
That, of course, is the idea. That the attraction of effectively demoing the game as a limited part of the Ork faction will attract a lot of players to the game. Given that they will probably zerg from one spot to another it could be quite Orky.
However, I have grave concerns that many players will either quit or simply pay to unlock the Space Marines who have been kicking their arse.
As has been pointed out - and I apologize for not making it clear I was talking about F2P Ork Boyz / Whatever other classes they play other Orks will be commensurately tougher and stronger.
Which is fine if the Orks have even roughly equivalent numbers.
There is a poll in the Founder-Only forum at the moment asking which faction people will be 'maining'. At the time of writing the scores are:
Space Marines: 65 votes
Chaos Space Marines: 28 votes
Orks 14 Votes
Eldar 23 votes
Undecided: 12 votes.
Looking at that does nothing to quell my unease. Unless the leaders of the three other factions effectively declare a non-aggression treaty with each other, and the Tyranid bots do a cracking job of keeping the SM off-balance things are not going to play very well.
If there's enough incentive to play Orks, even 'subbing' players might drop in to play them sometimes.
With enough account-wide credit amassed while playing Orks, they build up enough to get an SM upgrade, and they swap back into their Imperial toon.
Unless that's not how it works...
Looking at that does nothing to quell my unease. Unless the leaders of the three other factions effectively declare a non-aggression treaty with each other, and the Tyranid bots do a cracking job of keeping the SM off-balance things are not going to play very well.
I wouldn't get too worked up yet, you might find by the time the game is out and people start playing they'll enjoy one play style over the others. Hopefully Marines/Chaos Marines are fairly difficult to play if they are going to be powerful.
They could even stay true to fluff, and make Orks a race with tremendous endgame potential. Unlock an SM, there isn't a limit for how big an Ork can get or what nonsense a mek can wire onto a buggy.
For that matter, give a Mek access to a Shokk Attack gun down the line, and you will see players stick with it. There really isn't any comparable Space Marine man portable weaponry out there.
The intoxicating thing about Orks was their unique combination of two elements- they're dirt cheap, but they have tremendous potential. This game is nailing the cheap part. If they give them the potential too, you'll see tons of players stick with Orks.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
2014/07/03 18:18:34
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
My main gripe with the game, despite the blatant pay-to-win right now, is that it really looks like one of the oh-so-many projects that try to do a lot of different things at the same time, ultimatively failing at succeeding in any given individual area.
Ahtman wrote: Do we know how long the Founders program will be up? I mean the game is 18 months away so it doesn't seem like there is a big rush.
They release in 18 months...and they only have hit an alpha stage?!?
Well. That doesn't bode well at all.
Alpha stage seems about right for a year and a half out.
Not for a game that has been in development for roughly a year and a half and from a developer that has relatively little to their name. You're looking at 3 years development time for the type of game which takes bigger studios roughly 4-4.5 years dev time when they are transitioning from other types of games.
As of right now, this is a Call of Duty development cycle. Alpha a year and a half out is not good, contrary to what you might think. Usually when you see "alpha" stuff going public, it's been engaged for six or seven months prior.
2014/07/04 05:20:33
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Not for a game that has been in development for roughly a year and a half and from a developer that has relatively little to their name.
They are a very experienced developer judging by their back catalogue. Its all utter crap of course but they have been making a lot of it for years.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2014/07/09 11:33:58
Subject: Re:MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2014/07/09 12:32:01
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
If the TTK is anything to go by, I am displeased.
The gameplay also looks like a step down from Space Marine, even if a parrying feature is something I really wanted. The player models look like the miniatures rather than the art, this is not a good thing.
But they have also said that the power ratio is 3:1 in favour of the Marines.
What a terrible mechanic. It may be 'realistic' but making F2P customers, many of whom will be using the free game as demo, mere fodder is not going to entice people to stay with the game.
who says they are all players? having players be nobs or boy bosses who usually have large squads of trash boys around for fodder sounds really fun
Godforge custom 3d printing / professional level casting masters and design:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/GodForge
2014/07/09 13:53:22
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Unless of course you are the fodder. That has 'bad player experience' written all over it.
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
2014/07/09 14:37:45
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Ashiraya wrote: If the TTK is anything to go by, I am displeased.
The gameplay also looks like a step down from Space Marine, even if a parrying feature is something I really wanted. The player models look like the miniatures rather than the art, this is not a good thing.
You mean besides the fact that the textures aren't fully in place yet?
Unless of course you are the fodder. That has 'bad player experience' written all over it.
Actually I was kinda hoping for a Cultist Class for Chaos myself, I would sacrifice myself and many others to summon daemons! TEAM CANNON FODDER
2014/07/09 14:39:48
Subject: MMO: Warhammer 40,000 Eternal Crusade in game item shop up.
Ashiraya wrote: The gameplay also looks like a step down from Space Marine
That's the norm for MMOs. If a multi-player game is made off the back of a single-player game, expect a loss of features to make way for functionality.
It does look a lot like Space Marine (grenade locator), and as a pre-alpha, looks promising. More variety in moves would be nice, but there's time for all that.
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