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 Savageconvoy wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:


They design the codex with the current ruleset and units in mind.

The demon chariot was made in 6th where it could not move and shoot
the DA flyer had missile lock in 6th when it had no missiles that scatter, and even in 7th it's removed from the model so it doesn't apply still. (Does anything actually have missile lock?)
Look back at Necrons released last for 5th. Are you going to tell me they didn't design it for 6th edition?

6th had no Conjuration psyker powers either, some special rules never got used.

A lot of people are not thinking about this book in the 7th edition context.

Yes it's not Codex: Eldar, but that's the only book that stands head and shoulders above it (and above EVERY other book out there right now).

All the good points have so far outweighed the bad in my gaming experience, and I was just trying out my old tried and true favs (Nob Bikers, Biker Boss, Lootaz etc). These units still work and nearly everything else has gained significantly.

Getting back our old Waaagh is amazing, especially when you consider that you're also getting 2D6" movement, rerolling one die on that 2D6 and only losing 2" movement when assaulting through cover.

Deffrolla only D3 S10 attacks? So what, I'll take those odds for 10 points instead of 20, and you still get to re-roll difficult terrain, which I used 9/10 times, where as I only ever got to deffroll something 1/10 times at best.

So far I am happy with it. It's in line with the other decent books that have come out recently IMO.

What is so great about having a mek anyway? I never used them and never heard of a single ork player in my area ( there are dozens of them ) ever even owning a mek that didn't have KFF or SAG attached to it.

 More Dakka wrote:
Deffrolla only D3 S10 attacks? So what, I'll take those odds for 10 points instead of 20, and you still get to re-roll difficult terrain, which I used 9/10 times, where as I only ever got to deffroll something 1/10 times at best.

I'm guessing you missed the part where you can only use a death rolla against failed death or glory attacks thus making it not useable on vehicles. Even if you only used it 10% of time the death rolla did something that you don't hear a lot in 40k tactics, area denial.

A battle wagon with a deff rolla used to say "anything within 12/13 inches of me dies".

Simply by existing even if it wasn't being used it was controling the flow of combat.

Goresaw wrote:
I see a book of nothing but problems. No solutions.

How do I build a list to deal with massed IG tanks/wyverns?
How do I build a list to deal with centurion stars?
How do I build a list to fight wave serpents?
How do I build a list to stop massed missilesides?
How do I build a list to fight invisible spawn tide?
How do I build a list to compete with beastar?
How do I build a list to hurt dronestar/daemon flying circus?

I don't see anything but weaknesses.

Massed orks are more vulnerable than ever in a game where thunderfire cannons/wyverns are the weapons of choice for dealing with hordes.

Battlewagons got more expensive for something that was already far easier to kill than armor 14 would suggest (open topped armor 12 side vehicles who have massive side profiles).

Moral is now a bigger problem than ever before. Even kanz are going to run away. Things that 90% of the other armies laugh are HUGE problems for us. Pinning, fear, etc.

Big gunz are the biggest culprit. Toughness 7 is strong, but not invincible. Kill a few grots and they will see themselves off the table. At least they are cheap.

Which leads to the problem of heavy support bloat. If the community widely accepts multiple force org.... well good, I guess (although it helps other armies with far more effective choices than more than our army). If multiple force org is rejected by the community.... heaven help us.

At the end of the day, the ork codex has nothing that turns an 'okay' or 'great' unit into THE REAL ULTIMATE POWER like the other books have. Orks have nothing to 'smooth' the dice out or to turn things from a mathematical probability to a mathematical certainty. We don't have army wide rerolls. And sadly, since 6th ed... its really the only way to do business.

Its first vs third world here. Have's and have not's. You either have all the rerolls, or you don't. And the power gulf will only widen with time (as more and more imperial armies get 'updated' and can battlebrother each other).

This is a good post by some who understands. Someone who should of been on the list of people to test the codex before it launched. The whole codex needs a rewrite to be competitive and have rules that make sense. What they did to mob rule was uncalled for. and putting nerfed ghaz in LOW was obscene.

Guys, guys. I think its time to stop the complaining and accept that this book is actually fantastic, and you just don't know it yet.

I mean, thats what the internet says will happen, so it must be true. Right?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Remember when DLC was called Expansion pack, and People actually enjoyed it?

Remember when expansion packs contained content that was actually worth its price-tag, and said content wasn't obviously ripped straight out of the actual game so that the company selling it could make extra profit for practically free?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

I got through 5 pages of this and i have to chime in. Codex: Orks is pretty Naff. It invalidates 3/4ths of the builds people had and is stuffed with filler and recycled material.

It is a naked cash grab designed around the principle of seeing how much money they can get compared to how little effort got put into it. It feels like a sketch of a codex someone put down and needs a second draft.

It had the potential to be good but if feels like it was purposefully gutted to make room for supplements. Kult of speed is coming, and people with 40-something bikes will be happy because they get to play their bikes as Troops again.

But they shouldn't be happy, the codex should come with as many options and modes of play as the previous one with some rules tweaking because that's all the codex needed.

They lost Bikes as Troops. They lost Nobs as Troops. They lost Deff Dreads as Troops. They lost Kan wall as viable (Thought that was on the decline anyway) They will release supplements that allow some of those options back. (I'm assuming bikes probably since that seems like the most likely option.

It feels like they purposefully gutted the options just so they could release supplements and give people the 'honour' of buying them back.

They will split this codex across as many supplements as possible so they don't get just 50 dollars from you. So they get 200 dollars from you. It's super greedy capitalism at its most obvious.

Nids seemed like a one off mistake, a bad misstep designed by someone who didn't know that the army needed and didn't have enough time to work on it.

Orks seems like a deliberate, evil, purposeful evisceration of a once proud and very, very fun codex just to make money.

(BTW's I don't play Orks, I'm just a fan o f them)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Remember when DLC was called Expansion pack, and People actually enjoyed it?

Remember when expansion packs contained content that was actually worth its price-tag, and said content wasn't obviously ripped straight out of the actual game so that the company selling it could make extra profit for practically free?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Brood war came out many months to a year after Star Craft and contained new missions, storyline, voice acting and cinematics. It was more of a sequel than anything else.

Day one DLC is something purposefully removed from the final product and sold seperately just to get more money. I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3, Resident evil: Orc, Assassin's Creed and many others.

krodarklorr wrote:
Hey guys, I'm just gonna express my feelings towards the new Ork Codex. I don't play Orks, but my friend just got the codex and we read through it and everything. They got a lot of cool stuff, rules tweaks, much needed things, but the codex is SO bland. I hate the layout of the 7th Edition codex. They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. They include Lords of War, which I know are technically part of the game and it makes it easier to be in the book, but a lot of people don't like fighting Lords of War, but now people can use the excuse of "It's in the codex, I'm free to use it all the time, suck it up." Also, the Orks were one of the most unique armies in my opinion. Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone. My friend said that they're trying to make all the codexes more like Textbooks. Here's your rules, read them, buy models, play. No story, just bland. Me and him both feel like GW's caring level keeps going down. At this point, I'm not even excited about the Necron Codex when it comes out, since it will probably be set up the same way. I'm not planning on quitting 40k, but I'm probably just gonna focus more on Fantasy, or even something not GW related at all, like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

What do you guys think of the codex? Yeah, I know I don't play Orks, but it still pains me to see this codex.

I just got the codex and was able to check it out 7th and as a Ork player im digging it not only is it full of fluff and explain all the klans and awesome pictures of one of there boyz also have a cool timeline and was able to fit in mini pictures which i thought was fine. The rules have not changed in a bad way I am so excited to finally be able to play a updated codex for the Orks and its a strong codex that I am excited to use. I have to admit the ork werid boyz are epic not only do they get intense ork spells but with daemonlogy its kinda lame and lore breaking (unless your think of using Tuska the Daemonkila)

The only thing im bummed about is that I have to wait for a supplement for zogwort and wazzdakka.

But these are my opinions i like the updated rules and the fixes. Not saying Gw off the hook for stupid prices and other things...

Not to start an unrelated argument, but...
Please. Bitching about Day 1 DLC? If it looks dumb don't pay for it. If it looks cool, but it.
Here's the proposed question: If any DLC had just come out three months later, would you be complaining? Or is the timing the only thing you care about?
If it's the timing, then you're just complaining that games aren't long enough. Seriously. You're saying that the original game, codex, whatever was not worth its original cost, and that it needed 6 more hours of gameplay or another set of Relics, Formations, and Warlord Traits to be worth it's cost. And if you don't think that a full-length game isn't full-length enough, then you're complaining that the game developers aren't giving you free things.

So, which is it: The Ork Codex, or Assassin's Creed, or Mass Affect... Is it not a full product? Or do you want a business to give you free things?

No, I want businesses to offer something thats remotely worth the pricetag

Not to start an unrelated argument, but...

Saying that doesn't suddenly make it ok to start an unrelated argument.

Waaaghpower wrote:

snip..................................... If it looks cool, but it. ..............................

You can do whatever you want with your GW stuff. I wouldn't recommend that though, doesn't seem safe.

 Dakkamite wrote:
No, I want businesses to offer something thats remotely worth the pricetag

Not to start an unrelated argument, but...

Saying that doesn't suddenly make it ok to start an unrelated argument.

Then i have a simple answer for you. Dont buy the thing.

Between this thread, and the many other ork threads and you keep threatening to sell your army, then just do it and get it over with.

Us not buying the thing doesn't stop GW from cutting more content out of future products. All of us need to not buy the thing so maybe GW sees sense and stops the ridiculous less content at a higher price model. Like it or not we're heavily invested in this hobby and here to stay, so if GW is playing silly buggers damn straight we're going to complain about it.

 Yonan wrote:
Us not buying the thing doesn't stop GW from cutting more content out of future products. All of us need to not buy the thing so maybe GW sees sense and stops the ridiculous less content at a higher price model. Like it or not we're heavily invested in this hobby and here to stay, so if GW is playing silly buggers damn straight we're going to complain about it.

Thats like complaining about michael bay making bad transformers movies and that he shouldnt make more. These things make too much money for them to go 'nope'

They're a business, what do you really expect? They're not your best friends or family, they are here for your money.

And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

 Yonan wrote:
And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

Then the answer is simple again. Go play other miniature companies games. Being an Australian i feel your pain aswell, but complaining about this issue will get us nowhere at all. They can, and will, do whatever they want to make money. Its about time people just accepted it.

Since GW's birth, did they ever lower their prices on a large scale? I dont think so. They're not going to start now.

If this was a PC game that I could just drop, sure. However the several grands worth of miniatures is a substantial investment. Complaining has some small chance of getting the game to improve. Doing nothing doesn't even have that. I'd stick around here to discuss the PC games, modeling and fluff so why wouldn't I bitch about the rules while I'm already here ; )

Dragonzord wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

Then the answer is simple again. Go play other miniature companies games. Being an Australian i feel your pain aswell, but complaining about this issue will get us nowhere at all. They can, and will, do whatever they want to make money. Its about time people just accepted it.

Here's the thing though, for any other company out there this wouldn't be pointless complaining. Other companies try to make products that people want, rather than make products and assume they will sell. Other companies actually spend money to get people to look at this kind of 'complaining' filter out the trolls, those who will never be happy and those with simply bad ideas and then use the remaining 'complaints' as feedback to improve their product.

I think those of us who complain a lot on these forums are really just waiting for that to happen. We are waiting for our legitimate problems with GW to be acknowledged and fixed. It's not likely to happen at all, but that's how it SHOULD happen.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Codex: Orks is pretty Naff. It invalidates 3/4ths of the builds people had and is stuffed with filler and recycled material.

It is a naked cash grab... feels like it was purposefully gutted to make room for supplements
Orks seems like a deliberate, evil, purposeful evisceration of a once proud and very, very fun codex just to make money.

OK....

(BTW's I don't play Orks, I'm just a fan o f them)

Ah yes. The internetz. The place where people get angry about something they haven't even read..

We're still looking and thinking about how the new codex affects us; we've lost our biker nobz, but with the huge benefit of being able to field a stompa, when we're up against the super-competitive types. In the meantime, we'll ignore uninformed comments like the one above.

Funny, too, all these people whining about how their loota wagons got stolen in an exploitative cashgrab, but no-one's so angry they've taken me up on an offer of the PDF. Seriously, any time, if it helps salve those wounds,you're welcome.

Why would someone ask you for the pdf? They know where to get it online, just like I did.

 Yonan wrote:
Why would someone ask you for the pdf? They know where to get it online, just like I did.

Good to see someone else not hurt and wounded by getting WD rules - just like the good old days, that so many people were extolling.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

Then the answer is simple again. Go play other miniature companies games. Being an Australian i feel your pain aswell, but complaining about this issue will get us nowhere at all. They can, and will, do whatever they want to make money. Its about time people just accepted it.

Here's the thing though, for any other company out there this wouldn't be pointless complaining. Other companies try to make products that people want, rather than make products and assume they will sell. Other companies actually spend money to get people to look at this kind of 'complaining' filter out the trolls, those who will never be happy and those with simply bad ideas and then use the remaining 'complaints' as feedback to improve their product.

I think those of us who complain a lot on these forums are really just waiting for that to happen. We are waiting for our legitimate problems with GW to be acknowledged and fixed. It's not likely to happen at all, but that's how it SHOULD happen.

Exactly, thats how it should happen i agree. The company should care about us, how we feel about their products and what we want. But as you said, this is GW, and that has no chance of happening. They care about our wallets, and only our wallets.

I agree with those who say that day one dlc is bad, but does that mean I'm going to make the content in the dlc unavailable to myself by being spiteful and denying gw the money? Nope. And the content in the ghazzy book is good. Worth the $85 that others will pay? Nope. Worth getting it in the warboss edition? Yep.

We have all spent far too much money to just give up, but complaining for pages of threads isnt going to help. GW wont listen, and it wont make you feel any better about it. Someone on here has said multiple times 'im gonna sell my orks coz of this codex'.... multiple times? We got it the first time, anything after that is just being stupid. Sell the army and move on, which is what many people need to do with the 'supplements', move on. If you dont like it, you can sell your army too.

The player can do the constructive thing here and either get over what GW are doing (because its not going away), dont buy the supplments, pirate it, or sell their army. Complaining isnt on the list because there is nothing going to come out of that.

There is an interesting issue I'd like to raise about the Ork relics.
As far as I can tell there is nothing in the Ork Codex that stops you from taking more than one Gift of Gork and Mork item on a single Character.
Since it states that "Only one of each of the following artifacts may be chosen per army - there is only one of each of these in the galaxy!"

So my interpretation is that you may take let's say:
Gazbag's Blitzbike, Da Lucky Stikk and Headwoppa's Kill Choppa on the same character, (Warboss preferably).
But you may not give another character any of these relic anymore since there is only one of each.

This is what I interpreted based on the exact wording in the Codex, however I haven't seen a single Army List with more than one relic per character.
If they wanted to limit use of 1 relic per Character they could have simply said that you can take only one relic/gift per character, and that there is only one of each in the galaxy!
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Dragonzord wrote:
it wont make you feel any better about it.

Incorrect!

cathartic - providing psychological relief through the open expression of strong emotions; causing catharsis.

I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex. And as for this whole "Day one DLC" crap? That was done as a fan service. Why twist it to make it something it's not? It's not like it's hard to take a screenshot on your phone and there you go, you didn't have to pay for it.

Why do people gotta act so entitled? You're meant to be Orks. Start acting like it.

This isn't crying. This is anger. Orks iz plennty angry.

PapaSoul wrote:
I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex. And as for this whole "Day one DLC" crap? That was done as a fan service. Why twist it to make it something it's not? It's not like it's hard to take a screenshot on your phone and there you go, you didn't have to pay for it.

Why do people gotta act so entitled? You're meant to be Orks. Start acting like it.

I'm not an *Ork*, I'm a human being, and so are you.

If I was an Ork, I wouldn't be collecting toy soldiers, I would put on my Power Klaw, jump on my Warbike, drive it over to nottingham and shove it up Tom Kirby's arse.

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Let's hope not.