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Just wondering peoples thoughts on this. In the 2nd edition box set there was a carboard stand up for the Ork Dread, its still cool to use this I'm assuming?

Yep. Thats pretty cool.

That's what I thought as well.

Open Fire for FoW also came with cardboard terrain to help people get started. I thought that was a good idea too. Its like a jump start for totally new players to get into the rules.

It does everything the model does but cheaper, lighter and easier to move. So yea no loss using it.

It does break immersion a little, but I'd be fine with it.

We can't speak on behalf of your opponents, though, so it's always worth checking with them before the game. Social contract and all that.

Some TOs might not approve but I'm sure all in noncompetitive games your opponent would be cool with it. I'd be fine playing against that.

It's not a model.

It's a cardboard cutout that was included in the 2nd edition starter set to flesh out the Ork side for the last scenario.

Is it an official Citadel miniature? If yes then it really doesn't matter from a RAW standpoint since what makes a miniature a miniature inconclusive at best (i.E there is no raw saying that the model must be metal,plastic,resin, etc)

it is pretty odd seeing something so old being used since it doesn't look like its newer incarnation but the way i see it it isn't much* different from using almost as old metal models.


(* subjective)

Competitively no... its not a "model" regardless of GW making it 20 years ago.

in fun games haha y not

but its lack of a base etc and oh look its side on profile for LOS... just screams no.

Ahh here is something from the rule book that should shed some light on the situation.

on page 8 First sentence "The Citadel miniatures used to play games of a Warhammer 40,000 are referred to as 'models' in the rules that follow." So that answers that question on what a model is for the game, a Citidel miniature.

pg 9 under Models and Base sizes

"Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."


So go on ahead and use the cutout but just be sure to have another model of the right base and size you can switch with for purposes of LOS and such.

Oberron wrote:
Ahh here is something from the rule book that should shed some light on the situation.

on page 8 First sentence "The Citadel miniatures used to play games of a Warhammer 40,000 are referred to as 'models' in the rules that follow." So that answers that question on what a model is for the game, a Citidel miniature.

pg 9 under Models and Base sizes

"Sometimes, a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."


So go on ahead and use the cutout but just be sure to have another model of the right base and size you can switch with for purposes of LOS and such.

Though that rule says to put a base on the irregular model, not to swap it out mid-game to check LOS. "using models of a similar type as guidance" in determining which sized base to use.

I wouldn't be fine with it - LOS issues etc. plus it just doesn't look good to have 1 cutout among actual three-dimensional models.

many of the actual miniatures from 2nd edition era have some magic to them, more than this.

incase no one recalls the metal RT/early 2nd landspeeder, its about the size of an ork in mega armor doing a superman on a jetbike fight stand.

they are still legal technically.

I wouldn't have a problem with it, as long as we counted its dimensions the same as the current plastic model.

I wouldn't play against it. You can tell me its an official model till your blue in the face, but we would both know your trying for an in game advantage you shouldn't have.

well, it is an official miniature, isn't it? The fact it's only two dimensions surely doesn't change that.

Please someone post a photo of this object, I've never seen one...

There is no way this can be answered.... it completely depends on the player or TO.

Personally, I think it rocks. Make some allowances for its unusual shape, and don't do things like turn it sideways to hide behind a lamp post and you should be fine. I could even see many TOs being okay with this. (Assuming it is the actual 2E cut out, and not just something you made at home)

It's fine in the right context. A game against someone you don't know is probably not the right context and potentially quite insulting.

its in the top right corner of pic...it does say copyright GW on the upper left of the cardboard so it is a GW miniature.... lol

Regardless of whether it's official or not, It's not the same size or shape as the current model - I would not accept playing against it in a "serious" game.

Would you be bothered if someone asked you to remove marine models you had out because they were from 4 editions ago and were smaller than the current models?

Ironically the cardboard cut out is wider than the current ork dred, but of course being cardboard its thickness is significantly less

I am using 20+ year old land raider and land speeders. The normal reaction has been "Cool". The fact that the models are 1) smaller than the current equivalents and 2) older than many that play in the club doesn't seem to be an issue.

Ideally, all the models should be 3d but why not just let it go.

As for the posters claiming the OP is only trying to gain an unfair advantage - common guys, get a life. This is a game. If your opponenet hasn't the cash to fund a newer model , or hasn't yet then just look at is as being inclusive or that the local mekk-boy has done a really good job with building a camo' system hiding the can from the side.

I would absolutely let you use it. I started in 2nd edition and had the box set; for nostalgia, I'd love to battle the cardboard Ork dreadnought again.

blaktoof wrote:
Would you be bothered if someone asked you to remove marine models you had out because they were from 4 editions ago and were smaller than the current models?

Ironically the cardboard cut out is wider than the current ork dred, but of course being cardboard its thickness is significantly less

I have been asked to not use my old rogue trader rhinos in a tournament, since they are significantly smaller - I complied and understood why, since I could hide them behind terrain that normal rhinos couldn't. Lots of tournaments specifically disallow very old models that are not the same size as current ones (with the exception of themed forces that use models from a specific era).

Anyhow, you can't seriously be arguing that a cardboard cutout is "the same size and shape" as an actual model. THAT'S what I don't like about it - that it's a slab of cardboard, with no thickness. Besides breaking immersion, it doesn't have a proper base, you can't easily resolve side arcs, etc. I'm suprised at how many people in this thread think it's acceptable because it's an "official" model. Obviously it's okay in fun games, but I would be really annoyed if someone just used it all the time as an extra dreadnought - you really ought to bring an actual model.

It doesn't take too much wit or creativity to figure out how to play with this and treat it as if it were a full 3D dreadnought. I've never understood the "immersion" argument on any level, but if people would prefer to nit-pick about something as inconsequential as that, I'd suggest that you won't want to play a game with them for 3 hours anyway.

At least try to put SOME effort into the modeling aspect of the game. If you really don't care about the immersion and modeling, then I'm not sure why you would play 40k over other more abstract wargames (which are far superior from a gameplay perspetive).

what if someone took two of the ork dred cut slits halfway down one and halfway up the other, and combined them at a point so one is perpendicular to the other forming a + when you look down onto it.

Now it has thickness

Official GW. Use away.

Basically anyone would play you except Dan beaver and barbobot.

If some ones to target it comrade the side turn the darn thing so they can.

 Mythra wrote:
Official GW. .

The box the Leman Russ comes in is also made by GW. Can I use it as a tank?


A piece of cardboard with a picture on it is not a model.

 insaniak wrote:

 Mythra wrote:
Official GW. .

The box the Leman Russ comes in is also made by GW. Can I use it as a tank?


A piece of cardboard with a picture on it is not a model.

Unless it was released by GW as an official model. Which it was.