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I just opened the Stormclaw boxed set I got, and read through the campaign supplement and the section of the mini-rule book about choosing an army. I was wondering how you could take the formation Grukk's Rippin' Krew, and still take an allied detachment of orks. It says in the rule book under restrictions for the allied detatchment that it can't be the same faction as the primary detatchment and since Grukk's is in the Rippin' Krew detatchment it is the primary one. Is there any way to field more orks alongside Grukk's formation or do I have to go unbound.

The rules let you take as many CADs, or "other" detachments as you want.

You are not allowed "Ally" detachments of orks, but as many CAD as you want. Also the Ork codex contains more Detachments allowed for Ork, also legal for you to combine with

So I basically make separate armies and play them together?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doesn't seem logical to have 2 warlords

You don't have two warlords. You pick ONE guy to be the warlord. That detachment or formation is now the primary.

So each detachment is essentially a different army subservient to the "primary" army

The terminology is Factions, I am sorry to be that sort of pain in the arse but Rules are Written with this in mind so we should use the correct terminology when discussing them. Army means the whole thing while Factions defines where the Units where selected from, with Supplements and Formations being the same Faction as their mother Codex. It is a terminology I have long believed was needed in this game, given that Army wide Rules do not function well with Units selected from different Supplements and Codex's. This new terminology makes things a great deal easier to understand, so please embrace it's use when talking about Faction as it makes things a great deal clear for the listener/reader.

As for being 'subservient' that would be entirely Narrative, for as far as the Rules are concerned each Detachment is independent of each other baring one or two exceptions of course.

JinxDragon wrote:
The terminology is Factions, I am sorry to be that sort of pain in the arse but Rules are Written with this in mind so we should use the correct terminology when discussing them. Army means the whole thing while Factions defines where the Units where selected from, with Supplements and Formations being the same Faction as their mother Codex. It is a terminology I have long believed was needed in this game, given that Army wide Rules do not function well with Units selected from different Supplements and Codex's. This new terminology makes things a great deal easier to understand, so please embrace it's use when talking about Faction as it makes things a great deal clear for the listener/reader.

As for being 'subservient' that would be entirely Narrative, for as far as the Rules are concerned each Detachment is independent of each other baring one or two exceptions of course.

Just got the 7th ed rule book so I don't know the terminology yet.

I more then understand, I'm just being a little anal over it all.
A mixture of dealing with 6th's Editions lack of the Faction terminology and a few meat-space influences, whom are just as picky about the correct terms being used and the reason I get paid.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
So each detachment is essentially a different army subservient to the "primary" army

Trying to keep it simple and explaining detachments:

Your army contains any number of detachments or Formations. Just like your detachments contain a certain number of Units and your units contain a number of models.
So Models are together in Units. Units are together in Detachments/Formations. Formations/detachments are together in an Army (Battle-Forged).

When such an army is finished, you pick a character (any character) to become your Warlord.
The Detachment or Formation that he is part of becomes your Primary Detachment, and the Faction (Ork) of that detachment becomes your primary Faction.

If you have any detachments that were Allied Detachments, Faction (Ork) then they are now the same Faction as the primary and therefore not allowed.
If you picked your primary to be CA.Detachments, Faction (Eldar), then the Allied Detachments, Faction (Ork) are accepted, so are CA.Detachments, Faction (Ork), the StormClaw Rippin Krew etc, with simple "allied" limitations - Allies of convenience, etc

So sum up:
Army - Everything you put on the table.
Faction - All choices from a codex and all supplements to that codex. Codex Orks, Waaagh! Ghazghkull and The Red Waaagh! all are of the faction "orks". No matter how you get a unit it will always be of the faction of its parent codex.
Detachment - A part of your army that allows you to freely pick a limited number of choices from the different battle roles, usually requiring a minimum of certain battle roles (for example, 1 HQ 2 troops).
Formation - A part of your army that exactly tells you what units you have to pick.
Primary detachment - The detachment or formation that contains your warlord.

A battleforged army can consist of any number of detachments and/or formations.
You pick one character from your army to be your warlord. It can be from any detachment or formation unless a rule states otherwise ("XYZ must be your warlord" or "Cannot pick your warlord from this detachment").

To apply this to your original problem, you pick Grukk's Rippin' Krew as a formation for your army. You have to take exactly what is written there and pay points for it. You then take a Combine Arms Detachment, an Ork Warband Detachment or a Great Waaagh! Detachment as a detachment and buy your mandatory choices. Add any optional choices you want and pay for them. You can now go on and add more detachments and/or formations if you want.

Now, pick any character from your army and make him your warlord. Whatever detachment he comes from becomes your primary detachment.

So now, you have Grukk's Rippin' Krew with all of its models being from the ork faction and a Combined Arms Detachment with all of its models being from the ork faction as well. Since all factions are battebrothers with themselves, units from Grukk's Rippin' Krew are friendly units for the other detachment in all respects. For example, they could use a battlewagon bought for the other detachment, or be joined by a big mek that is leading the other detachment.

Thank you Jidmah.

If Grukk isn't my warlord does he still get the "bellowing tyrant" rule

Only warlord's can have warlord traits, so no.

Never mind. I just realized it isn't worth it to use as my primary because Grukk's warlord trait is worse than his formation trait

Grukk's warlord trait is awesome. Fail a few mob rule tests and see if you don't agree. Re rolling leadership tests is clutch.

I know, but if you take his special formation it is the exact same but there is no range to it and you reroll failed cowardly Grots tests too. (His trait also isn't good for planet strike as you can't roll on the attackers or defenders chart)

Fair enough, but in a standard game where he's not in his formation it is truly a great trait for him to have.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I know, but if you take his special formation it is the exact same but there is no range to it and you reroll failed cowardly Grots tests too. (His trait also isn't good for planet strike as you can't roll on the attackers or defenders chart)

Remember that the Formation rule only applies to models from his Formation, so if you take the Formation and a Combined Arms Detachment from the Ork Codex, the models in the Combined Arms Detachment don't get to use the rule.... Unless, they are close to him! That's your reason to take him as your Warlord.

Also, to make things a little more clear; there is a distinct difference in the BRB between allies and the Allied Detachment. Don't mix the two up, using allies means taking more Detachments (doesn't even need to be from different Factions, that's why Factions are Battle Brothers to themselves), while the Allied Detachment is a smaller Detachment than the Combined Arms Detachment, but it has an extra restriction: The models can't be from the same Faction as your Primary Detachment (the Detachment that has your Warlord).

Indeed, please do not mix up those two.
Be surprised how many people think allies are only in the Allied Detachment.