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Walkers have the rules:
In close combat, Walkers fight like Infantry models.
Walkers may make Sweeping Advances, Pile In moves, and Consolidations unless they are Stunned or Immobilised.

Vehicles have the rule:
If the vehicles loses the combat or is destroyed, nothing happens. There are no Sweeping Advances, no Pile Ins, and no Consolidation moves.

Nothing in those three rules tells me infantry would get to consolidate after destroying a walker.

1. No consolidate for destroying a vehicle.
2. Walkers are vehicles.
3. Nothing in the Walkers rules excepts point 1.

In close combat, Walkers fight like Infantry models.

Would you consolidate against an infantry model if you killed all of the enemy models you were in CC with?

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Walkers have the rules:
In close combat, Walkers fight like Infantry models.
Walkers may make Sweeping Advances, Pile In moves, and Consolidations unless they are Stunned or Immobilised.

Vehicles have the rule:
If the vehicles loses the combat or is destroyed, nothing happens. There are no Sweeping Advances, no Pile Ins, and no Consolidation moves.

Nothing in those three rules tells me infantry would get to consolidate after destroying a walker.

1. No consolidate for destroying a vehicle.
2. Walkers are vehicles.
3. Nothing in the Walkers rules excepts point 1.

you are correct RAW wise.

Walkers fight like infantry, but they are not infantry. They don't take morale checks like infantry models do, you roll to pen, not to wound like infantry models, and you don't consolidate when you destroy a vehicle.

Walker specific Rules are more Advanced then the general Vehicle Rules, and therefore trump in any conflicts, so do we consider this to be a conflict?
It is surprising what people consider to be a conflict at times, and what people state are conflicts in X and yet unwilling to put the same logic to Y, so a poll might be in order....

I don't see any conflict.

A conflict would be it saying you consolidate after destroying a Walker. It doesn't say that.

"Fighting like Infantry' does sound like "enemies get to consolidate when they kill you". To me it sounds like actually, you know, "fight" like Infantry.

"Walkers assault, and are assaulted, like Infantry models, meaning that Walkers make charge moves and can be locked in combat." (Vehicles Chapter, Walkers and Assaults section).

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Walkers assault, and are assaulted, like Infantry models, meaning that Walkers make charge moves and can be locked in combat." (Vehicles Chapter, Walkers and Assaults section).

non of which actually addresses the original question and is thus irrelevant.

as it is a vehicle we already have a rule telling us what happens when a vehicle is destroyed in CC. there is no conflicting rule to say after a walker dies that they can consolidate, as such they cannot.

just because is quacks like a duck doesn't mean it is a duck

Walkers like info try can consolidate after combat as far as I can tell.

Don't confuse "Walker can consolidate" with the OP's question: Can you consolidate AGAINST a walker.

I would also agree that there are no specific rules overriding "do not consolidate against vehicles" so no consolidation =S

There is no clear RAW here. "Fight like Infantry" gives walkers permission to do things, not their opponents.

HIWPI, since walkers would consolidate against infantry, they would consolidate against Walkers.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Walkers assault, and are assaulted, like Infantry models, meaning that Walkers make charge moves and can be locked in combat." (Vehicles Chapter, Walkers and Assaults section).

non of which actually addresses the original question and is thus irrelevant.

as it is a vehicle we already have a rule telling us what happens when a vehicle is destroyed in CC. there is no conflicting rule to say after a walker dies that they can consolidate, as such they cannot.

just because is quacks like a duck doesn't mean it is a duck

"Walkers assault...like Infantry models"

Do Infantry make a consolidate against other infantry models if they kill all of the enemy models they were in CC with?

Seems like a consensus to me then. The answer is no.

RAW at best a stretch. Assault and are Assaulted Like infantry is a bit too vague.

HIWPI I think we have an oversight here and it was intended that one could consolidate after doing in a walker in CC.

I vote yes personally.

Consensus is yes, otherwise you are fighting them as if they were infantry.

We have no consensus here, This is DAKKADAKKA

: a general agreement about something : an idea or opinion that is shared by all the people in a group

it's a close split from what I can tell. and 50/50 is not a consensus.

If we are fighting them as infantry, then if they lose combat do they take a morale test? can they fall to a sweeping advance?

where do I find the rules that answer those? Under walkers, or Under vehicles? found it, it's one nice sentence: There are no sweeping advances, no pile ins and no consolidation moves. It was under vehicles.

Well since walkers do not have a LD score they can never take a morale test.

No.

That said why didn't GW just allow consolidation after winning ANY assault?

Whether it was vehicle, infantry, MC, walker, etc.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Well since walkers do not have a LD score they can never take a morale test.

So, you're saying walkers don't fight like Infantry in assaults? they assault like infantry, except where they still use the rules in the vehicle section?

We are clearly told if the vehicle loses combat, nothing happens. You keep saying they assault like infantry models, yet they follow less than 1/2 of the same rules.

No they fight exactly like infantry models do in assault.

Being a vehicle with no leadership characteristic means they act like fearless models do. Which is to say, nothing, if they loose.

There is RAW, nothing that says models who beat a walker in assault, can make consolidation moves. This is true.

However it is highly likekly that they are intended to be able to, since the walker is (unlike normal vehicles) locked in combat with them and swinging back using his own WS and Init.

Since the walker is esentially fearless you can never sweeping advance it, so that has absolutely nothing to do with the current rules querry.

There is no specific "you conosolidate frmo a walker" rule. There is a general rule that you fight like infantry, except where told otherwise. You consolidate when fighting infantry. Page and para as to where walkers specifically do not consolidate / cannot be consolidated from, despite fighting like infantry.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
There is no specific "you conosolidate frmo a walker" rule. There is a general rule that you fight like infantry, except where told otherwise. You consolidate when fighting infantry. Page and para as to where walkers specifically do not consolidate / cannot be consolidated from, despite fighting like infantry.

page & para where it says "except where told otherwise" Unless you mean except where the rules for vehicles are more specific.

there is a general rule that you do not consolidate against vehicles (pg 78). page & para that specifically overrides this restriction.

pg 91, walkers may consolidate.

what does fight like infantry mean?

It's as you work through the initiative steps. 1. choose a combat, 2, fight close combat, (insert walkers here) 3, determine results. Determining results is after the fighting to see who won. We look at vehicles and see you fight the assault, then after the fighting the assault we move on to the assault results.

so we are left with two rules that are not in conflict "walkers may consolidate" and "no consolidation moves against vehicles"

no we're not left with anything else than "walkers fight like infantry" and the last step of a close-combant is this:

Consolidation
At the end of a combat, if a unit’s opponents are all either destroyed or Falling Back, or the end of combat Pile In was insufficient so that it is no longer locked in combat, that unit may Consolidate.

if walkers fight like infantry they treat close combat like infantry. infantry may consolidate, thous walkers can consolidate and vice versa.

to make that even clearer the BRB says:

In close combat, Walkers fight like Infantry models. However...

...in the following they list all the differences that involves fighting with walkers - non of it is that the enemy cant consolidate.

and on another note... RAI wise... wouldnt it be just plain stupid if walkers can consolidate but the unit fighting against them cant?!

sirlynchmob wrote:
there is a general rule that you do not consolidate against vehicles (pg 78). page & para that specifically overrides this restriction.

pg 91, walkers may consolidate.

I'm on this side for now, p78 is clear you never consolidate against Vehicles. Where is the specific rule overriding this?

Walkers themselves can consolidate, that is not up for contention, it's on p91.


I know full well this is NOT HIWPI, as i fully agree that destroying a Walker would allow consolidation, but RaW clearly lack the override of the "you are fighting a vehicle" Rule set.

Because you fight walkers like Infantry. This rule is more specific than page 78.
If you fight Infantry and kill them all, do you consolidate?

sirlynchmob wrote:
what does fight like infantry mean?

It's as you work through the initiative steps. 1. choose a combat, 2, fight close combat, (insert walkers here) 3, determine results. Determining results is after the fighting to see who won. We look at vehicles and see you fight the assault, then after the fighting the assault we move on to the assault results.

"Fighting like" does not necessarily mean "resolve entire phase like" , or does the Fight Sub-phase actually contain the assault results too?

rigeld2 wrote:
Because you fight walkers like Infantry.

"In close combat, Walkers fight like Infantry models."

Please explain how that sentence is equivalent to "Walkers use all the close combat rules of Infantry."

Spoilers, they are not. The first is about fighting only, the second is the one you are imagining.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Because you fight walkers like Infantry.

"In close combat, Walkers fight like Infantry models."

Please explain how that sentence is equivalent to "Walkers use all the close combat rules of Infantry."

Spoilers, they are not. The first is about fighting only, the second is the one you are imagining.

So you missed this rule?

Walkers assault, and are assaulted, like Infantry models

I can understand how - I mean it's only the first paragraph of "Walkers and Assaults". The first sentence even. So of course, being so buried it's easy to miss.
Spoilers - I'm not imagining anything. Don't put words in my mouth please.

I also read that line and thought the same thing, but again, "being assaulted like" Is only for the Charging Sub phase. Like your previous quote was for the Fight Sub phase. It just seems like a stretch to apply it to combat resolution?

 BlackTalos wrote:
"being assaulted like" Is only for the Charging Sub phase.

Citation required. Unless I missed it, this hasn't been proven.