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My meta happens to be very competitive, and i do not. People seem to get mad when i make it clear i dont want to play a transcendent ctan, or a riptide at 1000 points, and i do not want to play your tournament list. They get mad that they cant bring their "best" (min maxed) list against a guy playing with all the stuff he has at 1000 points. How do I deal with this, and how do i tell people I just want to play for fun, not your maxed out competitive list?

Assuming you've already spoken to them about what your expectations/desires for a game are, the only other options are to either not play any of them, or play them like they want.

Obviously neither are good solutions, but outside of talking/negotiating, there's not a whole lot you can do. They enjoy the game one way, you enjoy it another.

Have you tried extreme physical violence?

Well i did, but i never heard the end of the complaining from the guy about the "unreasonable" limits i put on list building.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
Well i did, but i never heard the end of the complaining from the guy about the "unreasonable" limits i put on list building.

That's fine, two differing philosophies that clearly aren't compatible. They don't seem willing to compromise, given the fairly limited information, so your options are to play their way, or don't play them at all.

gakky situation.

Are you physically larger then them?

It doesn't hurt sometimes to follow them to their car or wait for a moment where the two of you are alone to intimidate them into being less of a jerkass. Remind them that in the real world, your tactical acuity with action figures doesn't count for much.

We really need a deadpan smiley....

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
. How do I deal with this, ...

Play against other people.

...and how do i tell people I just want to play for fun, not your maxed out competitive list?

Tell them exactly that,


Different people play the game differently. If certain players play the game in a way that you don't find fun, then you need to find other people to play against if you want to enjoy your games.

Try a game that's balanced?

It's interesting how the topics of threads juxtapose so well on this board.

As I was reading the OP's plight in here, I couldn't help but think "huh, he really should have posted as a reply to that dude in the other thread who was defending 7th edition's legalization of LoW's in standard games and claiming that PUG matches are easy to do."

 MWHistorian wrote:
Try a game that's balanced?

I already play chess, in reality there is no truly balanced game, i just prefer 40k, its a stubborn preference and a lack of money to play other games.

Chess is balanced and is the only game that truly tests the players skill against one another, most other games are unbalanced in some way or another, i just accept it and try to have as much fun as i can.

When you explain it to them make sure you use the "knife hand" in your gesture

Sorry but that sounds like the opinion of someone who hasn't tried other wargames. Most other games are well enough balanced that you can bring the models you think are cool and your opponent can bring a powergaming netlist and you cam both have fun because the gap isn't that wide.

Unfortunately lords of war can make the game less fun for some people but on the other hand it can make it more fun for some people as well.

There are some people at my FLGS who I don't play anymore because we dont see eye to eye on playing. It's unfortunate but better than forcing one player to play a way they don't want to play or wont have fun playing.

I wanted to use my trancendanct C'tan during a game so I lent my friend my warhound titan to use that way both of us got to have fun.

insaniak wrote:

...and how do i tell people I just want to play for fun, not your maxed out competitive list?

Tell them exactly that

Yeah.

One of the other things you can do is see if people would be interested in a league you're running, and structure the rules in a way that biases things the way you want. For example, give out 3 points for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a loss... and then another +1 if they played a list without heavy support choices, and another +1 if they play a list with this restriction and another +1 if they played that. The people who are serious about winning will adapt to the new rules, at least for the duration of the league. That way they get to play their "strongest" and you get to have things the way you want.

One of the ways I did this during a league that I ran was to have points given out for achievements, and the people who won were the people who both won games and achievement farmed the hardest. In my particular case, the person who came in third lost way more games than he won. In any case, the idea is to kind of expand horizons. To show that 40k can be fun outside of just winning games and that's it.

Or, of course, you could point out how 40k is a dice game and playing it on easy mode with strong lists doesn't make their manhood any bigger, but that's probably going to lead to more hassle than it's worth.

There's no talking to WAAC/Competitive folks when they're in the zone, it's not a bad thing I guess, but you won't change anything.

Just tell'em up front you're looking to take a friendly list and try out some games using things that aren't competitive, if they want a tournament list they should probably seek out someone else.

If they give you gak, flip'em the bird and tell'em to piss off. It's a game first and foremost, if they can't understand that then screw'em.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Try a game that's balanced?

I already play chess, in reality there is no truly balanced game, i just prefer 40k, its a stubborn preference and a lack of money to play other games.

Chess is balanced and is the only game that truly tests the players skill against one another, most other games are unbalanced in some way or another, i just accept it and try to have as much fun as i can.

LOL. No. Just no. Balance doesn't equal sameness. Try a differnt game first.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
I just want to play for fun, not your maxed out competitive list?

What you don't seem to understand is that they ARE playing for fun, their idea of fun is just not the same as yours. They enjoy figuring out the best way to win the game, you want to have an equal chance of winning without changing your list. Those two kinds of fun aren't compatible, if you're having fun then they won't be. So just find other people to play against that share your idea of fun.

What's wrong with a riptide? I'm not even super competitive but I wouldn't play you either with a restriction like that. It's not a super heavy, LOW or FW, you just don't like that model so you expect someone else to play without it. That would be like me telling an opponent "sorry, I don't play against land raiders, take that out of your list." Maybe try getting another 1,000 point army and playing against yourself cuz nobody in my local meta would play against you either with those kind of restrictions on building a list.

Find a different group to play with? There's always guys around who just want to have fun, not win all the time, and the community here is tiiiiny. Not a single gw store in the entire country.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Have you tried extreme physical violence?

Exalted good sir!

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Try a game that's balanced?

I already play chess, in reality there is no truly balanced game, i just prefer 40k, its a stubborn preference and a lack of money to play other games.

Chess is balanced and is the only game that truly tests the players skill against one another, most other games are unbalanced in some way or another, i just accept it and try to have as much fun as i can.

I know you want to stick to 40k, but here is how 40k works.

Step 1. Accept that 40k is a sandbox dice game utilizing miniatures with not a shred of balance or tactics in sight.
Step 2a. Play with friends who you can easily agree with on how it will be played. GW leaves it up to the players to make the game work.
Step 3b. If you do not have friends with whom you can easily agree on how the game should be played, escape now. 40k isn't for you. GW has made it perfectly clear they plan on leaving how the game works up to the players and they do not care if it makes 40k suck for you.

That may sound harsh, but that's the way GW crumbles the cookie.

I would look into other games that people are playing in your area. There are games that are light years ahead of GW games in terms of balance and armies that don't cost insane amounts. If you can afford 40k, you can afford to play multiple other games in it's place. I have been into DZC and I can tell you that any all-comers list can do well against a competitive list. No haggling, negotiations, etc. I'm not trying to sell you on DZC, just pointing out that balanced war games are real. Balanced pickup games between competitive and casual players really do exist. Just not in 40k. If you want to stay casual in 40k then you need to find like-minded people and stick together, that is your only option.

Balderdash.

All strategy games are imbalanced - it's the ability to do certain things in certain ways that makes you more likely to win is the DEFINITION of a strategy game.

Saying that playing eldar right now is a stronger way to play is like saying that opening with pawn to E5 is the strongest chess opener. It's not a sign of a broken game, it's the sign that it's a strategy game.

Anyways, 40k is like several other good games in that it has a random element which makes it so that the better player doesn't always win (far from it, in fact). You kind of get to have one foot in the strategy world and one foot in the sandbox world.

Ailaros, here is what your argument always boils down to.

Every car has imperfections, as no structure is entirely perfect. So, keeping that in mind, there isn't much difference between my '84 Beetle and a show room '15 Beetle.

You like 40k. Cool. Rock on. Saying things like ,"40k is like several other good games in that it has a random element." is hilarious and really underlines how much of an apologist you are.

I am not trying to talk about the merits of 40k as a balanced or unbalanced game, I just want to hear suggestions on how to avoid hassle with people that I don't want to play a transcendent Ctan, or fight two riptides and have to dig out the independent character rules as to how commander batman cant join it now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toofast wrote:
What's wrong with a riptide? I'm not even super competitive but I wouldn't play you either with a restriction like that. It's not a super heavy, LOW or FW, you just don't like that model so you expect someone else to play without it. That would be like me telling an opponent "sorry, I don't play against land raiders, take that out of your list." Maybe try getting another 1,000 point army and playing against yourself cuz nobody in my local meta would play against you either with those kind of restrictions on building a list.

I'm sorry, but if I bring a pure foot guard list not even knowing that there is a riptide present I may be hesitant to play it as I am woefully unprepared. I can not afford to change my list, I could just as easily say, "Why should I have to take a loan out of the bank to make a new list so you can use your gundam?"

 Peregrine wrote:

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
I just want to play for fun, not your maxed out competitive list?

What you don't seem to understand is that they ARE playing for fun, their idea of fun is just not the same as yours. They enjoy figuring out the best way to win the game, you want to have an equal chance of winning without changing your list. Those two kinds of fun aren't compatible, if you're having fun then they won't be. So just find other people to play against that share your idea of fun.

I second this. They have fun playing competitively. You're noting going to stop them from enjoying the game the way they do (just like they aren't stopping you from enjoying the game the way you do)

You pretty much have to accept that and find new people to play with.

60mm wrote:Ailaros, here is what your argument always boils down to.

Every car has imperfections, as no structure is entirely perfect. So, keeping that in mind, there isn't much difference between my '84 Beetle and a show room '15 Beetle.

That's not even close.

My argument is that strategy games are those where certain combinations of rules make a player more likely to win than if they made different choices. It necessitates things which are stronger and weaker, or, as some like to say, imbalanced. People who want a balanced game don't want a strategy game.

The Home Nuggeteer wrote:I'm sorry, but if I bring a pure foot guard list not even knowing that there is a riptide present I may be hesitant to play it as I am woefully unprepared. I can not afford to change my list, I could just as easily say, "Why should I have to take a loan out of the bank to make a new list so you can use your gundam?"

The problem is that you want to have it both ways. You want to be able to win without doing what it takes to win.

Either be a casual player, which includes not caring if you lose, or be a stronger player, so you can win more. There sort of isn't another solution to this.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
I am not trying to talk about the merits of 40k as a balanced or unbalanced game, I just want to hear suggestions on how to avoid hassle with people that I don't want to play a transcendent Ctan, or fight two riptides and have to dig out the independent character rules as to how commander batman cant join it now."

Your only option in 40k is to find people to play with whose play style is similar to yours. I know you aren't talking about balance, but your problem revolves around balance issues. What is happening is your style of playing the game is not meeting up with the other players style of playing the game. The Riptides and Ctans do not look fun to you, because getting rolled by a power list that you are un-prepared for isn't fun for you, am I following you correctly?

This part of the game is typically mediated by game balance. If you like to bring whatever you think is cool looking and I want to bring whatever I think is "the best", a balanced game ensures that our power levels are similar. Is it gonna be perfect? No, but it won't be a boxer vs. a paraplegic battle either. This is where 40k's lack of balance hurts. If you play with friends who have similar ideas on how the game should be played then 40k can really be kick ass. If you go to play with people that play differently, it suddenly sucks ass. If we both want to be competitive and have battles of the super-heavies, we will both be happy. If we both want to use whatever looks cool, we'll both probably be happy as well. But the second those two worlds collide in 40k it goes bad. 40k leaves that entire process up to the players and GW has been very vocal about that, no one here is dreaming that up.

So again, find players that you get along with. If you try and can not, look into a balanced system that is played in your area. Those are your two options and either will work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
People who want a balanced game don't want a strategy game.

Not only do I want a balanced strategy game, I play a balanced strategy game. Keep downing the blue pills Ailaros

A balanced game, where you can do whatever you want and still win.

And a strategy game where doing certain things makes you more likely to win.


....


Right...

I generally break down 40k players into two categories: those that make armies, and those that make lists.

people who make armies tend to want and enjoy having a fairly balanced assortment of units, generally over invest in troops, and enjoy the narrative of their army as it would exist in the typical fluff. Their general idea of a take all comers list focuses on destroying a fairly balanced opposing list (stuff to kill troops, stuff to kill vehicles, stuff to hold ground, stuff to take ground, etc)

those that make lists tend to settle on an optimum loadout and cut/paste those options as many times as they can to get to their points limit. This genreally means bringing minimum troops and maxing out the more powerful force org areas. They also tend to enjoy the narrative of their army, but primarily cornercase scenarios that justify the units they bring... tigurus and his hard-as retinue of grav centurions team up with an inquisitor and a few dozen henchmen, and happens to run into a lone chapter master on bike with the shield eternal; wild adventures follow. Their general idea of a take all comers list focuses mainly on focusing on one aspect of the game, such that the average opponents list will be overwhelmed/not able to deal with the skew.

as for actual advice: Go talk to one of the silverbacks at your gaming store and explain what you enjoy, and the type of game you want. In general us older players have burned through all our WAAC fuel and seem to be much more interested in having fun while playing a game than winning said game.