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I wanna see a list of unbalanced units and models.
Is it too powerful for the points cost?
Is it too weak for its points cost.



I'll start.

Eldar Farseer on a bike. 115 PTS
3+4++ mastery lvl 3 psyker on a bike.

Why am I paying 165 for Tigirius?

Does anyone know anyone who plays Vangaurd Vets?

Ok, I'll have a think through the Tau codex.

No model really comes out as being way too good (especially once 7th made the Riptide significantly less effective). We do have some questionable equipment costs though. Why does the Ion Accelerator only cost 5 points more than the Heavy Burst Cannon? I don't know. Why can our tanks get a twin linked smart missile system for the same points as a twin-linked burst cannon (not even two separate burst cannons like the old codex, and as such completely inferior in every possible way)? I don't know. Why can 2 markerlight tokens remove everything from 2+ to 6+ cover saves? I don't know.

Oh yes, and of course, one of my favorite things in the codex, the Early Warning Override. Why can every battlesuit get the option of having Interceptor for 5 points a model? I don't know...

Penitent Engine. Armor 11 open topped walker. No guns. 85 points.

Repentia. Just no. They suck. Expensive, no armor and will hit last.

Howling Banshees. Weak CC fighters in a shooty game.

Mutilators.

Warptalons

This is going to end up being another serpent hater/fanboy thread. Putting my money on it.

Poly Ranger wrote:This is going to end up being another serpent hater/fanboy thread. Putting my money on it.

And/Or another Learn to Play thread, I'd guess. How long before someone comes by and says something it ludicrous ubercheeze or complete filthy garbage unplayable and someone comes by and disagrees?

One man's trash is another man's treasure, but yeah, if I were a betting man, I'd guess it won't take long before we get to GW working with the illuminati enter a conspiracy to prop up the immanent demise of the former by insidiously forcing the unquenchable evil of terrible game balance on people.


Or, you know, the thread gets locked.

 Ailaros wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:This is going to end up being another serpent hater/fanboy thread. Putting my money on it.

And/Or another Learn to Play thread, I'd guess. How long before someone comes by and says something it ludicrous ubercheeze or complete filthy garbage unplayable and someone comes by and disagrees?

One man's trash is another man's treasure, but yeah, if I were a betting man, I'd guess it won't take long before we get to GW working with the illuminati enter a conspiracy to prop up the immanent demise of the former by insidiously forcing the unquenchable evil of terrible game balance on people.


Or, you know, the thread gets locked.

You just made me crack up!

- SM Land Raiders still the only ones which can't be upgraded with dozer blades/terrain ignoring gear.
- Removing ALL cover with 2 markerlights.
- Helbrecht - being a melee murder HQ - doesn't have a pistol and is ridiculously expensive.
- Same goes with the Emperor's Champion, but threefold: 2-Wounded dude with Chaplain-esque gear (2+/4++), but worse than Chaplain's statline, has an AP2 sword with either lousy strength or an initiative of the powerfist - AND costs more than cheaply yet decently kitted Captain.
- Sisters of Battle in general. Please, GW, buff 'em good.
- Inquisitorial Chimeras having 5 firepoints.
- Captain Shrike's points per usefulness = pick another HQ.
- The Dark Eldar. They need a new codex. I feel bad for those guys...
- Nob bikers' points cost need to be increased (NOT decreased, gee dubs!)

Those are the things which came to my mind.

Its not hard to see which units recieved rules designed to drive sales. Riptide, ion accelerator in particular comes to mind. At the time the Tau codex was released, and the Riptide was introduced - Tau model sales were abysmal. Its not conspiracy theory to draw the obvious conclusion of GW manipulating game balance to increase the bottom line.

Having said that, Khorne Berserkers are not threatening in CC, and are way overcosted.

I remember when khorne berzerkers were good. 21 points for a model with 4 ws5 str4 init5 attacks on the charge, with a champion that was 3 attacks base.

Well, in the blood angels dex, regular predators are useless, as are captains (ugh). I think farseers are wayyyy undercosted. Tau cheese is balanced by the lack of good troops and mediocre transports.

sand.zzz wrote:
Its not hard to see which units recieved rules designed to drive sales. Riptide, ion accelerator in particular comes to mind. At the time the Tau codex was released, and the Riptide was introduced - Tau model sales were abysmal. Its not conspiracy theory to draw the obvious conclusion of GW manipulating game balance to increase the bottom line.

Having said that, Khorne Berserkers are not threatening in CC, and are way overcosted.

Khorne Zerkers are way too expensive.

it just amazes me how lopsided some of the models are.

my friend just started an Eldar army and its been my first experience playing against them. ridiculously powerful army.

but on a good note for Nids. the top guy in our escalation league is blowing the competition away with a solid Nid army. 3 wins, 35 victory points coming into the 4th game of 5.

Poor poor roughriders, I would have been happy of just a copy and paste of the kreig deathriders. They can do so work but only on that initial charge afterward I've only seen them die horribly.

Wraiths.

I just cannot get mine to stand up without like a dozen 40mm washers on the base.

Tyranid HQ slots. Playing at anything under 1000pts hurts options when Synapse is so necessary, an HQ is required (unbound is a silly concept and can get stuffed) and the cheapest is 125pts and incredibly lousy, needing to be 135 to be worth it's weight... That's special character point costs in most armies.

Killa Kanz. Too expensive for what they do and now have morale and lost DCCWs. My looted dreadnoughts from good ol' 5th are unlikely to come off the display shelf onto the gaming table any time soon.

Annihilation Barges are undercosted (to what degree is debatable).

Flayed ones, Lychguard, Praetorians and C'tan shards are all badly overcosted.

Possessed Chaos Marines. 26 points I can understand if they have Frag and Krak grenades or bolt pistols but they don't.

Genestealers, same issue. Same cost as a Space Marine yet worse armour save, no grenades and no ranged.

Nephilum are Overcosted thats for sure, and the Dark Talon may as well not exist.

having to spend point for Flakk missiles, makes them overcosted ((should be included with missile launchers))

Ralis wrote:

having to spend point for Flakk missiles, makes them overcosted ((should be included with missile launchers))

Exactly.

 Tigramans wrote:
- SM Land Raiders still the only ones which can't be upgraded with dozer blades/terrain ignoring gear.
- Removing ALL cover with 2 markerlights.
- Helbrecht - being a melee murder HQ - doesn't have a pistol and is ridiculously expensive.
- Same goes with the Emperor's Champion, but threefold: 2-Wounded dude with Chaplain-esque gear (2+/4++), but worse than Chaplain's statline, has an AP2 sword with either lousy strength or an initiative of the powerfist - AND costs more than cheaply yet decently kitted Captain.
- Sisters of Battle in general. Please, GW, buff 'em good.
- Inquisitorial Chimeras having 5 firepoints.
- Captain Shrike's points per usefulness = pick another HQ.
- The Dark Eldar. They need a new codex. I feel bad for those guys...
- Nob bikers' points cost need to be increased (NOT decreased, gee dubs!)

Those are the things which came to my mind.

Biker Nobz are not cheaper, they are the same cost as before. It's only our basic Warbikes that went down in cost. Not to mention Biker Nobz used to be pretty much the only units that ever earned their points back before the new codex update. Luckily, things improved for us so now every unit is useful (Cept Grots...still not very useful )

 unfassbarnathan wrote:
Killa Kanz. Too expensive for what they do and now have morale and lost DCCWs. My looted dreadnoughts from good ol' 5th are unlikely to come off the display shelf onto the gaming table any time soon.

Kanz are still good. The 'moral check' is not that big of a deal. It only makes them Snap Shot if they fail...which means at worst, they fire just like Boyz. Kanz should be running at their faces anyway. I'm not too upset over losing DCCW honestly, though I do feel they should have gotten an overall point reduction for that and the addition of the 'Crew Shaken' test. *shrug* I still use them almost every game though. Still models your opponent CAN NOT ignore, or they will chew threw things like mad.

Space marine terminators. Almost any army can volume of dice and these guys go into the dirt before they even get to do anything. I have a had a full squad of 10 assault terminators (5 TH/SS, 5 LC) get destroyed by a dozen death company with 2 powerfists, and that was when I charged THEM.

I second Space Marine terminators, especially tactical termies. They are beyond useless, too slow and frail for close combat, to weak and short ranged to be effective shooting. Storm bolters need to be salvo 2/4 and all terminators need FNP or an extra wound (or both) to be worth the points cost.

I think all of the chaos greater daemons are over priced in comparison to other MC and FMC. They are still good, but with the nerfs to FMC, they don't perform to their price tag.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
Wraiths.

I just cannot get mine to stand up without like a dozen 40mm washers on the base.

Damnit!

I wanted to crack that joke :(




For me its hydras.... they lost there niche in a game where jinking became reeeeeeallly dumb.. even then i dont think they would of been good.

Lootas, Mek Guns, and Flash Gits.

Armor Saves are crap. Grots only get T7 not armor 3+. 9 times out of 10 they'll die turn 1 or have almost nothing turn 2. Have to put ICs in them to keep them alive.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Lootas, Mek Guns, and Flash Gits.

Armor Saves are crap. Grots only get T7 not armor 3+. 9 times out of 10 they'll die turn 1 or have almost nothing turn 2. Have to put ICs in them to keep them alive.

they're T7 with a ton of models for very few points, stick them in cover and they should be damn near impossible to clear except by assault. T7 means those grots are only getting hurt on 4's by plasma guns and on 6's by bolters (instead of 2's).

Meanwhile, Lootas put out more firepower per point than just about anything else in the game, point a full squad at any vehicle that isn't at least AV13 and watch it go bye-bye.

I'll grant that Flash Gitz are pretty lame though unfortunately.

Wyverns, should cost 80 points, not 65. They're too good at lower points levels.

Anything that can get fortune.

Roughriders. May as well take a sm army for same points and it will work better.
Ogryns. A screening unit should never cost more then the unit it is screening, when it gets ID by str 8 weapons.


Serpents should either be tanks or be resilient transports, not both at the same time.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

GW works with the illuminati? It all makes sense!! Quick, somebody get Ailaros to a bunker. He's not safe anymore, he cracked their code. We should all go into hiding...

I'll start.

Eldar Farseer on a bike. 115 PTS
3+4++ mastery lvl 3 psyker on a bike.

Why am I paying 165 for Tigirius?

Good joke

In case it wasn't a joke, do you know that Tigurius is one of the best psykers/force multipliers in the entire game? He re-rolls your reserve rolls, has a free one-use-only Guide and also has a 75% chance of getting any spell you want. You'd need 2 farseers to accomplish this feat.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Lootas, Mek Guns, and Flash Gits.

Armor Saves are crap. Grots only get T7 not armor 3+. 9 times out of 10 they'll die turn 1 or have almost nothing turn 2. Have to put ICs in them to keep them alive.

Are you crazy? Mek Gunz shouldn't be in rage of ANYTHING on Turn 1, and if they are...you deployed WRONG. Lobbas for instance...48 inch range. Unless your opponent is playing SUPER ranged, they shouldn't be able to peg them. And with the ability to take extra crew, each gun has on average 3 or 4 T7 woulds, and the gun itself hals 2 T7 wounds. For 18 points base for Lobbas or Kannons, 3 points per extra wound you want. I see no unbalance in this.

As you pay for bigger guns, their ranges might be shorter. But it should be taking a LOT of firepower to take down these guns, even then. Odds are, if they went down turn 1, you didn't bring enough, or their rolls were Godly. Mek/Big Gunz are not unbalanced by any means.

Lootas and Gits, I could agree they are risky units with their non existent armor, but thats the price we pay for typically under costed models to begin with. You can't have everything without paying for it. Marines pay for their gear and it shows. When they could have less than a 1/4 of the models I've got...you know they are pricey. Effective! But pricey. The thing is, Orks take everything in twos, or threes. So if your bringing lootas, you should bring decent sized squads, and bring a couple of them. Bringing just 1 is useless unless you've got ways to keep them alive (Good cover, KFF)

I've never really found much in the Ork book to be 'unbalanced'. It's all pretty well costed, and we can bring a lot of everything. The only thing I feel right now isn't costed correctly, is Kanz. I agree with other people they are a tiny bit over priced for what they got in exchange, but they aren't so bad you can't ever field them again.