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 Zagman wrote:

Plus, we are going to see SW allies for many imperial armies, because who doesn't want empty drop pods for their friends?

Why do you want empty drop pods?

Davor wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Plus, we are going to see SW allies for many imperial armies, because who doesn't want empty drop pods for their friends?

Why do you want empty drop pods?

For objective grabbing. AV12 can be surprisingly hard to remove for some armies.

 TheKbob wrote:

Direction of the game is still garbage, long story short. 5th, anyone?

Hell no. That is why I quit 40K. Just collect now. Don't play because of 5th.

Fantastic Codex very pleased! Well worth the wait TONS of flexibility and variations now.

 Jancoran wrote:
Hoboy. Didnt take long for these threads to start did it?

If somebody fields that if I ever play again I am going to loose. Why will I loose? I will be going "HO HO HO" throughout out the game, I will forget what to do. I mean, how can I even fantom of hurting good old ST Nick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Random Dude wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Plus, we are going to see SW allies for many imperial armies, because who doesn't want empty drop pods for their friends?

Why do you want empty drop pods?

For objective grabbing. AV12 can be surprisingly hard to remove for some armies.

Thank you for explaining.

Davor wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Direction of the game is still garbage, long story short. 5th, anyone?

Hell no. That is why I quit 40K. Just collect now. Don't play because of 5th.

Hasn't GW stated multiple times 40k is supposed to be a "Forge the Narrative/Beer and Pretzels Game"?

 Random Dude wrote:


Hasn't GW stated multiple times 40k is supposed to be a "Forge the Narrative/Beer and Pretzels Game"?

Having played real "Beer and Pretzels" games, I can tell you that 40k is not a B&P game. It is far too costly and clumsy a ruleset to be laid out in front of a group of gamers with zero knowledge of the rules and play a game in a reasonable time period. That the whole 'Forge the Narrative" line is just a continuation of that "Cinematic" crap people tried to use to justify the poor quality of the 6th Edition rules.

 infinite_array wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:


Hasn't GW stated multiple times 40k is supposed to be a "Forge the Narrative/Beer and Pretzels Game"?

Having played real "Beer and Pretzels" games, I can tell you that 40k is not a B&P game. It is far too costly and clumsy a ruleset to be laid out in front of a group of gamers with zero knowledge of the rules and play a game in a reasonable time period. That the whole 'Forge the Narrative" line is just a continuation of that "Cinematic" crap people tried to use to justify the poor quality of the 6th Edition rules.

People on the interwebs just love complaining about everything (I know they have a right to do so), but as for me, I can still have fun playing 40k.

 Random Dude wrote:

Davor wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Direction of the game is still garbage, long story short. 5th, anyone?

Hell no. That is why I quit 40K. Just collect now. Don't play because of 5th.

Hasn't GW stated multiple times 40k is supposed to be a "Forge the Narrative/Beer and Pretzels Game"?

GW also claim to be a model company, not a rules company, despite charging double, triple or even quadruple what their competition charge for rules (at least those who do, a few of their competitors done charge anything for rules).

 Random Dude wrote:

Davor wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Direction of the game is still garbage, long story short. 5th, anyone?

Hell no. That is why I quit 40K. Just collect now. Don't play because of 5th.

Hasn't GW stated multiple times 40k is supposed to be a "Forge the Narrative/Beer and Pretzels Game"?

How in the world are the "ALL MIGHTY POWERFUL SPACE MARINES, hiding and cowering in vehicles until turn 5" forging the narrative?

Davor wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

Davor wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:

Direction of the game is still garbage, long story short. 5th, anyone?

Hell no. That is why I quit 40K. Just collect now. Don't play because of 5th.

Hasn't GW stated multiple times 40k is supposed to be a "Forge the Narrative/Beer and Pretzels Game"?

How in the world are the "ALL MIGHTY POWERFUL SPACE MARINES, hiding and cowering in vehicles until turn 5" forging the narrative?

I didn't say GW are correct in that statement, I just wanted to know if they actually said it, or if I was making it up.

 Random Dude wrote:


People on the interwebs just love complaining about everything (I know they have a right to do so), but as for me, I can still have fun playing 40k.

Its not complaining.

No one is saying you can't or shouldn't have fun playing 40k, but calling it a beer and pretzels game is pretty absurd.

*Edit* Your avatar is really messing with my page layout.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:


People on the interwebs just love complaining about everything (I know they have a right to do so), but as for me, I can still have fun playing 40k.

Its not complaining.

No one is saying you can't or shouldn't have fun playing 40k, but calling it a beer and pretzels game is pretty absurd.

*Edit* Your avatar is really messing with my page layout.

Again, I wasn't calling it beer and pretzels. I just wanted conformation on whether or not GW had said it.

I don't know if GW ever said it themselves, but I've seen it bandied about forums elsewhere. Mostly when 6th was released and the whole 'Forge the Narrative' bs started spreading.

 Blacksails wrote:

No one is saying you can't or shouldn't have fun playing 40k, but calling it a beer and pretzels game is pretty absurd.

My friends and I were playing some casual games. One of them was drinking a lot of beer and was wasted throughout this one game against another guy. He kept cheating himself and somehow still won.

There were also pretzels involved. I know because I ate them all.

Therefore, everyone who doesn't think 40k should be associated with beer and pretzels needs to reevaluate their outlook on life.

I have had a beer or two while playing but we didn't eat pretzels. We had Nutty Bars and Doritos. Does that mean it is really a beer, Nutty Bars, and Doritos game?

 Brotherjanus wrote:
I have had a beer or two while playing but we didn't eat pretzels. We had Nutty Bars and Doritos. Does that mean it is really a beer, Nutty Bars, and Doritos game?

Yes.

Overall, it seems like the last few books are closer in balance to the first few books of 6th edition- Dark Eldar, CSM especially. Those were not major upgrades over the old book like Eldar, Tau, and Daemons were, they were more of "sidesteps" in balance. SM got a bit stronger, Nids a tad weaker than before, and IG, Orks, and now Wolves were more balance passes than revolutionary new codices. It was Eldar, Tau, and Daemons that threw out the curve in 6th.
GK are sounding like they are about to get a balance pass, with nothing new, and Inquisition stuff removed, but otherwise just a few points and wargear adjustments.
Necrons getting fixed will help with the problems they have for the meta. Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are not overpowering right now, so will hopefully be more balance books. Tau the main issue is the pricing on the Riptide and the interceptor upgrade now that MCs cannot be joined by ICs. Bump the former up by 15-20, and remove the latter or increase it to 20 points instead of 5, and most of the issues left with Tau are taken care of.
Eldar and Daemons will take more significant work to balance though.

 Grugknuckle wrote:


This is exactly the way I feel. Grey Hunters used to be the best troop choice in the game - so we knew they would get nerfed. But they're just space marines with counter attack now, yet cost more. I know people will say, "wait a minute, they're only 14 pts per model now, they used to be 15!" and that's true. However, this is what you used to get....

Old Codex:
10 Grey Hunters (w/ bolter, bolt pistol and CCW)
2 Plasmaguns
MOTW
Wolf Totem
185 points

New Codex
10 Grey Hunters (w/ bolter, bolt pistol and CCW)
2 Plasmaguns
190 pts

See what I mean? The new GH's cost more and do less.

To be fair, while true, they also were under-costed before relative to their equivalents. BP/Bolter/CCW+Counterattack+ATSKNF for 15pts, plus discounted weapons, plus the cheapest sergeant equivalents in the game, who also payed fewer points for their upgrades relative to other Tac equivalent squad leaders.

If anyone didn't see that coming, they weren't looking at the road. When the previous book was released in 2009 it caused much consternation exactly because the GH's were both cheaper and more effective than everyone else's equivalents. Now they're more in line with their equivalents instead of routinely costing 20-30pts less per squad (and often being more effective).

The only difference in actual unit character is that they can't all have a banner (but it's still there) and the MotW isn't there anymore, both optional upgrades and both only existing as-was for one codex iteration (nobody seemed to complain about unit feel/flavor when Counterattack was radically changed with 5th edition). Other than that they have the same statlines, the same special rules, access to the same wargear, and they can take multiple specials now without sacrificing the unit leader.

I'd say they came through still pretty allright.

I don't really see a lot to complain about as far as internal balance is concerned. You can complain it's not as powerful as Tau/Eldar if you want, which is a valid complaint until Tau/Eldar get replaced.

Most my complaints are about the flavour of the chapter. I much prefer the idea of the Vlka Fenryka where the wolfy aspects are spoken of in hushed voices rather than the Space Wolves of Wolfiness who ride their mutated Wolf brothers in to combat, ride Wolf drawn hover chariots and think picking up an insane cursed murdering dreadnought is a good idea.

From what i understand its pretty middle of the line, at least its not dark angels, thank your respective deities for that.

Got the new Dex and so far really like it.
However my main annoyance was that I was told that WD #27 was to be the source for rules for Murderfang.
But on going through the dex Murderfang is in there with the special dreads....

Btw Anyone else notice that the Necron Dex has dissappared from the GW webstore? Are they next?

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Oh and is it just me, or is there a MAJOR typo on the Wolf Priest, restricting Oath of War to just him? That needs to be FAQ'd immediately.

No it doesn't. Preferred Enemy is one of those skills that transfers to the unit. One Wolf Priest with Preferred Enemy means 15 Blood Claws with Preferred Enemy.

Looks to be on par with the rest of the recent books.. They removed a lot of the interesting options, made it bland, reduced fluff.. and added some stupid stuff like empty drop pods.

Bleh

Empty drop pods is stupid? That's one of the best additions in the entire book.

Toofast wrote:
Empty drop pods is stupid? That's one of the best additions in the entire book.

It is a strong option, doesn't mean its not stupid.

Also they won't be empty, they will be crammed full of grav weapons with prescience...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Add: in a codex with murderfang and Logan riding Santa's sleigh, you single out empty drop pods as the stupid part?

Toofast wrote:
Also they won't be empty, they will be crammed full of grav weapons with prescience...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Add: in a codex with murderfang and Logan riding Santa's sleigh, you single out empty drop pods as the stupid part?

I guess it's the stupidest from an actual "game" perspective.

WTF?? now you can have a unit of 3 thunderwolves with SS and TH for 255, thats mean 15 s10 attacks on the charge, holly molly, and people begin to whine, gosh what they want then? they are a bullet magnet, yes, but you can always send first a unit of 5 swiftclaws with one SS and a melta gun, with one wolfguard with SS and TH to shield your thunder calvary for 170 points, synerge is the word in this codex, gosh people, use the brain firts before to complain, and i am telling you this with only 20 min reading the codex
I know, not everything is perfect, it pains me the lose oif the necklace and the sagas, we lose lots of character and personalisation, but overal is a all right codex.
Beside we can spam lonewolfs on tda with TH and SS, picture 3 of these vs a daemon prince, poor horned dude lol

Until he beats them down with the Black Mace.

Seems Wolves have the best priest running though, better then a Chappy, and better then Dark Apostle with PF IF or MC, with FNP 6+.