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The new game introduces a "Helix" system to Force-Organization.

Basically, every army has a "core" helix, made up of an HQ choice, 5-15 infantry stands, 5-10 medium tanks/etc... This is essentially your starter-box.

Now imagine this hexagon is surrounded by six more hexagons. Each has a category... Air-Support, Allies, Heavy Armor, Leviathan (Giant mechs, etc...) and a few others.

You can choose one item from each category, OR take a second one from the same category IF you omit any units from the opposite "side" hexagon.

So taking a second mech might mean you can have zero allies, etc...

Mentioning allies - I honestly hope Spartan keeps allies out of things. I dislike when rules systems try to marry up whole factions with others and encourage allied armies because it tends to break the balance. Either the armies tactical differences become so minor that they are all basically the same (to avoid overpowered combos) or you end up with overpowered combos because army X and army Y "fix" too many of each others problems.

I've always seen allied armies as an addendum to the rules - a "If you want to you can; but its not part of the balanced core game" element.

If they're created similar to how FSA treats them, I wouldn't worry.

You're allowed up to 25% of your value from a faction on your side of the war. If you do so, you lose out on faction specific TAC cards, which isn't insignificant.

Additionally, each faction has a natural ally, which can be an additional 25% of your fleet value. If your fleet is purely your core faction plus natural ally, you still get your special cards. In most cases, the natural allies for each fleet are pretty similar; they're often a more focused version of the core fleet at the expense of other aspects. The Veydreth, for example, give up a lot of basic resilience in their cruisers to get access to deployment shenanigans and board better than the Sorylians, but don't have the raw staying power or firepower.

I think it'll be fine to be honest. It'll open up some cool options that'll be hard to abuse between army composition, min requirements, and general balance.

 Blacksails wrote:
If they're created similar to how FSA treats them, I wouldn't worry.

You're allowed up to 25% of your value from a faction on your side of the war. If you do so, you lose out on faction specific TAC cards, which isn't insignificant.

Additionally, each faction has a natural ally, which can be an additional 25% of your fleet value. If your fleet is purely your core faction plus natural ally, you still get your special cards. In most cases, the natural allies for each fleet are pretty similar; they're often a more focused version of the core fleet at the expense of other aspects. The Veydreth, for example, give up a lot of basic resilience in their cruisers to get access to deployment shenanigans and board better than the Sorylians, but don't have the raw staying power or firepower.

I think it'll be fine to be honest. It'll open up some cool options that'll be hard to abuse between army composition, min requirements, and general balance.

The ally system In firestorm armada is great. It forces so many hard decisions that it feels really balanced. I really look forward to having linked campaigns between Planetfall and Armada.

You might have missed this earlier, but, here's the leaked info on how force composition work.

From the thread these were in on SG - Armies are built around a "core helix" which is a balanced selection of core troops which has a lot of flexibility, with a bit of everything possible. To this, you can then add one of each specialist helixs per core - ( the 6 options are Leviathans, Heavy tanks, Air support, Artillery, Assault, Allies).

Alternatively, you can take 2 of the same specialist Helix, but this prevents you taking any of the opposing helix option on the selection wheel (e.g. if you take 2 Leviathans, you can't take any Heavy armor helix's). This gives tonnes of flexibility, while giving balance to force selection at a higher level. See the info sheet on display below.

Here are some close ups courtesy of Alexmann on the SG forums

Aw man... those look totally awesome.

Not interested in the rules or infantry models, but the vehicles and mechs? Just lovely. Color me smitten.

Adding cover to the Infantry makes them look SOOOOOO much better!

I like the allies concept. It's done well in the FA rules and i expect them to be about the same in Planetfall.
Because it's also embedded in the background of the Firestorm Universe and because it's embedded in the standard rules (in Firestorm Armada) that you have to choose 1 main force and allies, it gives flexibility and freedom in miniatures and gameplay AND fits the background better than huge fleets without allies.

In 40k for instance allies are an addition and many alliances are not embedded in the background at all by more than a few historical examples.

I wish they would just put up preorders. I've taken gambles on lesser concepts from lesser companies, so this is an easy Day-1 for me.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I wish they would just put up preorders. I've taken gambles on lesser concepts from lesser companies, so this is an easy Day-1 for me.

Ehhh, I'm really not a fan of pre-orders, and I'm certainly not a fan of the business culture its creating. Unlike kickstarters which are for backing something that otherwise wouldn't exist without funding up front, handing over your money for pre-orders is rewarding a company for showing pretty pictures.

I'd much rather them release it and let people buy it then. Let people buy it, review it, and make an informed decision, than going off of the best available pictures at the time.

I like Spartan, but I don't give them money until the models are ready to be shipped, and generally until after I've read some reviews or at least an unboxing. While I'm excited for Planetfall, I'm holding all money until I see a video of a Sorylian unboxing and associated review.

 Blacksails wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I wish they would just put up preorders. I've taken gambles on lesser concepts from lesser companies, so this is an easy Day-1 for me.

Ehhh, I'm really not a fan of pre-orders, and I'm certainly not a fan of the business culture its creating. Unlike kickstarters which are for backing something that otherwise wouldn't exist without funding up front, handing over your money for pre-orders is rewarding a company for showing pretty pictures.

I'd much rather them release it and let people buy it then. Let people buy it, review it, and make an informed decision, than going off of the best available pictures at the time.

I like Spartan, but I don't give them money until the models are ready to be shipped, and generally until after I've read some reviews or at least an unboxing. While I'm excited for Planetfall, I'm holding all money until I see a video of a Sorylian unboxing and associated review.

I agree, and appreciate the wisdom of this but only under the assumption that stock is there for people who want it, once it is available.

Last week when you motivated me to try FSA (thank you, btw), it was an ordeal finding a Battle for Valhalla starter unless I was willing to use Ebay.

I find pre-orders acceptable when I know I will be buying something that I feel will probably sell out relatively quickly, and then require a long restock time.

For example, i've learned to pre-order X-wing ships because they tend to sell out and then take an age to restock. True FFG has essentially "trained me" to do this and thus not risk having excess stock, but the bottom-line is, if I want it, its something I end up needing to do.

Pre-orders make a lot of sense business wise - you tap into your target market earlier; thus letting you clean up a lot of sales from people who, if they waited for the official launch, might well have spent their money on something else.

Similarly it can act as a crude measure of market awareness and how well the marketing is going. Get very few pre-orders and you know something is likely wrong - either the product itself is wrong; the marketing is wrong or your company has a bad history that has rendered pre-orders ineffective.

Similarly if you get a massive influx of pre-orders you get a much earlier warning that "yes, yes we do have something good here and yes we DO need to consider upping our production capacity/rate! )

RoninXiC wrote:
Adding cover to the Infantry makes them look SOOOOOO much better!

I know, right? Genius!

They do look very cool.

I first saw that "cover on the base" style used to great effect by an Epic player named Onyx. It looks awesome. Here's an example of his stuff:



It always struck me that this is one of the big advantages of modelling at the smaller scales, like 6mm and 10mm--you can do fairly simple things at a fairly low cost that nonetheless come out looking super-cool.

Onyx's stuff looked so awesome that I had to ask him if I could use his stuff in one of my old Epic:Armageddon articles on BoLS (from back in the day, when I was still trying to drum up interest in GW's best gaming system...before the dark times...before they utterly killed it off and I got so angry/depressed that I walked away from GW completely).

Thankfully, others are now stepping into the void left by GW and I can get my 6mm fix elsewhere. It's looking increasingly like I might be adding this game to my list of No More Epic grief-counselling games -- but there's always room for more small-scale warfare awesomeness. I'm getting a tad excited about Firestorm Planetfall's potential to join the list.

I don't even like 15mm/10mm stuff, but I'd seriously consider grabbing a few of those vehicles. Those Drindenzi hover tank things look really neat.

These are the 10mm figures though, right? I could swear I've seen pics of pretty much the same vehicles, but with very different looking figures, and I'm guessing those were the 15mm version.

I too have a HUGE collection of Epic, still my favourite game, but GW axed both Epic and BFG and i won't sell anything (still play them once and again, especially Epiuc), but i add new game systems from other suppliers.
And Spartan is my favourite new supplier.

And where Firestorm Universe is a bit different is that it is more sci-fi than sci-fantasy.
I love the 40k setting too, but a more realistic background is a nice change from a background where 10 heroic marines can clear a whole planet :-)

ORicK wrote:
And where Firestorm Universe is a bit different is that it is more sci-fi than sci-fantasy. I love the 40k setting too, but a more realistic background is a nice change from a background where 10 heroic marines can clear a whole planet :-)

This. Yes.

I can't wait. Every tiny bit of rules released, or models shown, just look better and better.

I've wanted an Epic replacement for what feels like forever, and this looks, at least for now, perfect.

Wanted an old epic replacement as well but although the models looks great Spartan rules can be a let down but fingers crossed for this hope its not like the previous version of the rules.

10penceman wrote:
Wanted an old epic replacement as well but although the models looks great Spartan rules can be a let down but fingers crossed for this hope its not like the previous version of the rules.

There are already a few very decent Epic replacements out there. I would recommend Exodus Wars (www.exoduswars.com) for obvious reasons (there's a reason why I wanted to make a computer game of it), which also has the advantage of a free rulebook and free Faction Books you can download, but I also quite like Future War Commander. Both feature the same alternating activations of Epic and are fast-playing.

Found some better pics of models already shown. (from Spartans FB page). They said they will be posting some smaller units tomorrow.

Next up is a Dindrenzi Federation Leviathan Class for you to have a look at. Like its Terran Alliance opponent this version is the Combat build, and it is armed with Dual Rail Guns and Dual Missile Launchers. Mounted in to the head of this machine is a Sky Drop designator.

The model also comes on a 100mm x 100mm textured base and stands a mighty 130mm tall. Forming a Leviathan Helix in game terms the model can also be supported with Aerial and Recon ground units.

A major feature of this model is its Sky Drop designator which allows the model to 'call in' other units from low orbit, using a rapid strike capability to move and conquer a battlefield.

Time to show some larger, more detailed images of our Planetfall models as we fast approach the game's launch date. I picked the first model to show you as the Combat version of a Terran Leviathan Class, one of the larger models in the Terran force.

This version is armed with a G-72 Dual Laser, body mounted Raptor Launcher, Heavy Rotor Chain Guns and a Nexus Designator. Its armour is tough, but the model also utilises Shield technology as part of its defences.

As part of a Leviathan Helix the model (in either its Combat or Close Combat variants) can be supported by Aerial Gunships and/or Recon Tanks.

The model comes on a 100mm x 100mm textured based and stands 120mm tall and across the shoulders he is approximately 140mm.

Heavy Tank flanked by two Mediums. The Heavy is on a base that is 70mm x 100mm to give you an idea of size

10penceman wrote:
Wanted an old epic replacement as well but although the models looks great Spartan rules can be a let down but fingers crossed for this hope its not like the previous version of the rules.

Though to be fair, that is the one place they have improved on with the last two big releases. If Planetfall gets the same attention to playtesting as the 2nd editions of both Firestorm and Dystopian Wars, then we shouldn't have any issues.

I'm a bit leery as this is the first edition of a completely new line, but DW and FSA have been pretty solid rule sets. The issues with the original editions of DWars and FSA were that they felt rushed out the door and very under-tested. They have a lot more experience under their belts for games of this scale and the test issues seem to be over for the time being with them moving over to large testing pools pulled from community volunteers.

So I am confident enough to give them the benefit of the doubt here. But I am still a bit worried that this one may have a few teething issues early on. Luckily, Spartan have also been showing a willingness to clarify or even outright change things post release if it turns out to not work well (FSA has seen revisions to the costs of core fleet units, errata on TAC cards that were overpowered, rapid revision of some Marauders rules quickly after the initial release to solve a few issues). So even when things haven't been perfect (and honestly the amount of changes has been within normal tolerance... we're not talking Infinity-sized FAQs here) they have been willing to fix it instead of saving it to a later sub-edition/printing.

Between these factors, I think Spartan has done something a bit miraculous in terms of rules development quality. Hopefully Planetfall hews to this instead of the bad old days of live, paid beta tests.

Well said Ronin.

Models look excellent. I'd like to see more Sorylian goodness, but not because I'm biased or anything like that.

I haven't played any of their other ground combat games (Dystopian Legions/Wars), but it its anything like FSA in basic mechanics, I'll be thrilled. Hell, even the helix method to list building is fething cool.

 Blacksails wrote:

I haven't played any of their other ground combat games (Dystopian Legions/Wars), but it its anything like FSA in basic mechanics, I'll be thrilled. Hell, even the helix method to list building is fething cool.

Aside from boarding (which is still gives me headaches), DWars ground combat is actually seriously good, its a great counterpoint to the other DWars theaters

I think the Aquan tanks in the grey color scheme look so much better than in blue. I am really curious about what the other Leviathans are going to look like.

I do really like the look of the Terran leviathan. The Dindrenzi one is right down my friends alley (he's aTau player).

I'm very excited for the rules, assuming they'll be as good as the original ones hopefully even better. I'm just hoping that the game will move faster than the DW land game since they've said the colored dice mechanic was being removed in favor of the standard exploding dice.

I'm really looking forward to the other factions. They've said the Directorate leviathan will be a flying vehicle, so I am willing to make a bet (small one) that it'll look something like the carrier or frigate in FSA.

I can definitely picture some possibilities for how the Sorylians and Aquans could be designed, but I'm really interested in seeing the Relthoza, but mainly because the only "vehicles" we've seen of there's are little more than body armor for the k'ss'ark warriors, so I am eager to see what kinds of larger constructions they will do for planetary invasions.

I just had a Battletech-gasm at those walker minis.

This LOOKS great, but I have a stompy robot combined arms game. This will have to be utterly fantastic for me to do anything other than pick up a couple minis.

My brother and I were quite eager to jump into Dropzone Commander, but this looks like it's more our cup of tea. Especially those big, stompy robots.