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I am playing in a 1500 Point Tournament with some friends this weekend with no Flyers (unfortunately)
My meta has Dark Eldar, Eldar, Marines (White Scar), Tau, Chaos, and Orks (pretty much some of everything). So I am trying to build a TAC list. It has to be a CAD because of tournament rules. I am trying to be as competitive as possible with my orks, so any tips or tactics are appreciated. Pointing out what my list is lacking would help a lot. As long as it doesn't involve rewriting the entire list, I'm open to ideas because I want to win at least one game this tourney .

HQ- 295
Grukk Face-Rippa- 130
Big Mek with KFF on Blitzbike with bosspole- 125
2 Mekaniak Meks with KMBs- 40

Troops- 390
12 'ard Boyz including Boss Nob with power klaw and bosspole, Trukk with ram- 195
12 'ard Boyz including Boss Nob with power klaw and bosspole, Trukk with ram- 195

Elites- 340
15 Tankbustas with 3 bomb squiqs, 1 tank hammer, Boss Nob with bosspole- 240
5 Kommandos- 50
5 Kommandos- 50

Fast Attack- 328
3 Deffkoptas with Rokkits- 90
3 Deffkoptas with Rokkits- 90
6 Warbikers with Boss Nob with Power Klaw and bosspole- 148

Heavy Support- 145
Battlewagon with Kannon, 4 big shootas, ram, and grot riggers- 145

Total- 1498

Grukk goes with Tankbustas and 2 Mekaniak Meks in Battlewagon, Big Mek goes with Bikers in the middle of all the vehicles to spread his cover save, Kommandos infiltrate up to distract enemy.

Too many toys not enough Boyz. I would want the full 6 troops choices in 1500 and for me Battlewagons are like Landraiders and should never be taken solo. 2 meks in that wagon are for repairing but it will almost always die in a single turns firing and you've got what 555 points wrapped up in that vehicle.

I prefer warbuggies to deffkopters unless you're taking klaws. Can you only take 1 CAD?

Only 1 CAD... And I only have 2 Warbuggies... Is that better than one of the threesomes?

Well it's cheaper. Personally I like both buggies and kopters solo but I only play 7th Ed, not silly lets try to turn 7th back into 6th Ed so I would take more detachments often. But you need more MSU. That is the strength of this book with the boost to the Mob Rule rule.

MSU?

Multiple Small Units. You need lots of units that each carries marginal threat but that are cheap enough so you don't care if/when they die. Trukk boyz (not hardboyz), solo buggies/kopters, MANz missiles, tankbustas in a Trukk. That type of thing where everything is fast and your opponent has too many units to stop.


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As an idea here's what I'd run at 1500: 

Warboss: attack squig, PK, heavy armour, BP, Da Finkin Kap 119 

10 Boyz: Nob w/ PK, BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 130 
10 Boyz: Nob w/ PK, BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 130 
10 Boyz: Nob w/ PK, BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 130 
10 Boyz: Nob w/ PK, BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 130 
10 Boyz: Nob w/ PK, BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 130 
10 Boyz: Nob w/ PK, BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 130 


10 Tankbustas: Nob w/ BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 175 
10 Tankbustas: Nob w/ BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 175 
10 Tankbustas: Nob w/ BP: Trukk w/ rokkit 175 

Warbuggie: rokkit 25 
Warbuggie: rokkit 25 
Warbuggie: rokkit 25 

That's 42 rokkits a turn to deal with armour (even Knights) at potentially 15 separate targets, plus no less than 7 power klaws for AP2 goodness. It is also 21 separate units (22 if you count the Warboss) for target saturation. If you go first you've 30 tankbustas to try to secure FB whilst 6 trukks are on the edge of the opponents deployment zone. With 2 rolls on strategic Warlord Traits to try to get stealth ruins and move through cover (and or Night fighting) to help you weather the turn 1 storm and to get into position. This is incredible if there are lots of ruins in your meta (obviously less so the less prevalent they are).

The great thing with the tankbustas here is they are the obvious turn 1 threat so if you go 2nd your opponent will want to target them. Which again gives him the issue that top of turn 2 six trukks full of boyz are on the edge of his deployment zone. If he wants to stop that he has to ignore thd tankbustas so neither option is good. Obviously if you do go first there should just be too much pressure on him.

Ok that is almost completely rewriting my list... Any tips to modify what I have? I can drop 5 bustas, take the buggies and maybe have room for something else...


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Do you see a TAC list from a different race being a hard counter to mine?

Yes at the moment a Knight list, Tau gunline, Eldar or Marine bike list, AM gunline, heck any of the various deathstars, Transcendent C'tan, Cronair, Cron AV13 spam are all strong favourites against the current iteration of your list. My list was not listed as a suggestion but as an example of what is possible when going down the MSU route. I would either go pure MSU or get more battlewagons so at least there is some armour saturation. At the moment your opponent's targeting decisions are made for him you have 1 big bundle with StW and mist of your points and threat in. If you're doing that you need that bundle to be unkillable and unless it is a stompa Orks just don't do deathstars. Put your Warboss in a less threatening unit. Get multiple BWs and provide so actual targeting decisions for your opponent. The more difficult you make his decisions the more mistakes he will make at the moment you're making his decisions easy.

Waaagh, here's my take on your list: Not enough boyz. I know some people value toyz over boyz and thats great, but I just dont think you have enough wounds on the table.

You have a total of 67 wounds at 1500, and I think striving for a min of 100 is where its at. I also think the Kommandos have their place, but its not here. Especially if they arent armed with special weapons, and they cant assault on first turn/tun they outflank, they'll probably die for nothing, and when it boils down to it, they're just more expensive boyz. I don't think they are worth it unless taken in a blob as a Snikrot delivery box, because that guy is a monster, and because coming from the enemy board edge is hilarious.

Here's how I'd rework the list.

+HQ+

Grukk: 130 (I like this guy. Good value)

Big Mek w/ KFF + Blitzbike: 125

(This is a good one too. I have never thought of putting a kff biker onto the relic bike. Its like wazzdakka with a kff! I'd drop the bosspole though, because the biker nob already has one, and when the unit gets in combat the big mek should accept challenges so the nob's klaw can swing, because if they make it across the board, the mek has done his job)

Little Mek w/ KMB: 20pts

Little Mek w/ KMB: 20pts (hang out with tankbustas in the wagon with Grukk).

+TROOPS+

11 Slugga Boyz + Klaw/ Pole Nob in Trukk w/ Rokkit and Ram: 147pts

11 Slugga Boyz + Klaw/ Pole Nob in Trukk w/ Rokkit and Ram: 147pts

11 Slugga Boyz + Klaw/ Pole Nob in Trukk w/ Rokkit and Ram: 147pts

11 Slugga Boyz + Klaw/ Pole Nob in Trukk w/ Rokkit and Ram: 147pts

(I elected to drop some specialists here and there, because with transports- especially our easily destroyed ork transports- you need saturation. 4 trucks and a wagon isn't half bad, especially if you can keep the wagon and at least two trucks in KFF radius. I also dropped heavy armour, because for the price of heavy armour you can get the third truck mob, and the fourth is the price of a few tankbustas and deffkoptas).

+ELITES+

11 tankbustas: 143pts

(dropped the nob because they already have grukk to keep them in line, and a nob does nothing to increase the shooting output of a shooting unit. Same goes for the tankhammer. You have melta bombs and Grukk already, plus little meks to eat challenges. You'll be ok without them. Also left behind the squigs because of the saturation of rokkits in the list).

6 Kommandos w/ 2 Rokkits + Snikrot: 130pts

(A cheap harassment unit to come out of reserve and try potshots on rear armour. Keep em in cover when they arrive. If they survive to the next turn, assault either a tank or a blob susceptible to Snikrot's Fear. Remember, Snikrot is S6 with 6 attacks on the charge, so he can do serious work against most vehicles)

+FAST+

6 Warbikers + Klaw/Pole Nob: 166pts

(unchanged. Make sure big mek eats challenges so the klaw can crush faces with impunity)

Deffkopta w/Rokkits: 30

Deffkopta w/Rokkits: 30

(had to cut some koptas for the sake of more boyz. I think its a good tradeoff.)

+HEAVY+

Battlewagon w/ Ram and Rokkit: 120pts

(dropped a lot of the upgrades. On the old wagon, if it moved all the rokkits mounted on it would have to snap fire so the kannon could fire at full BS. Dropped down to one rokkit so it can always fire full BS, but more importantly to prevent immobilized on the first Weapon Destroyed result. Dropped riggers because there's two meks on board. Also dropped plates because wagons tend to explode rather than be stunned - reasoning being most weapons that can pen AV14 are also AP1 or AP2, and the wagon is open topped, so lascannons just blow it up on 5s, and meltas blow it up on 4+. The wagon's job is to serve as a mobile weapons platform for the tankbustas and to give off Grukk's 12" leadership bubble from the hull. Turn one it should move forward just the 6" so you can try to wreck a vehicle with the busters, but by turn two it should really strive to be just behind your truckboyz who should be in combat by turn two. Grukk himself should be in by turn three, if not two. Leave the tankbustas in the wagon though, they have no business in the meat grinder unless they're charging tanks)

Revised list, thanks for the continued feedback:

Total- 1500

HQ- 290
-Grukk(130)- 130
-Big Mek with KFF, and Blitzbike- 120
-2 Mekaniak Meks with KMBs- 40

Troops- 538
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with PK, Shoota, and BP, Trukk with ram- 147
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with PK, Shoota, and BP, Trukk with ram- 147
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with BP, Trukk with ram- 122
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with BP, Trukk with ram- 122

Elites- 282
-9 Tankbustas with 3 bomb squigs- 132
-8 Kommandos with 2 rokkits- 90
-Boss Snikrot- 60

Fast Attack- 250
-Wartrakk- 30
-3 Deffkoptas with rokkits- 90
5 Warbikers with Boss Nob with PK and BP- 130

Heavy Support- 140
-Battlewagon with kannon, 3 big shootas, ram, and grot riggers- 140

I'm still hoping to make my list TAC, so if you see any hard counters or units that are useless in the list please point them out.


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Really? No more critiques? It's perfect?

Well it's looking a lot better but still has the issue of the BW being an obvious and pretty soft target with a lot of points tied into it.

So should I just make it another Trukk?

Yes but split the contents so you have multiple threats rather than 1 main threat in an even less survivable shell. Put the Warboss in with normal boyz and get 2 trukks of tank bustas.

Or should I just add another BW... I'd end up splitting the Bustas into 2 Trukks and putting PK boyz into BWs...


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And why are buggies better than koptas?

I think lootas are better than buggies now. Always take a buzz saw tho.

Buggies are better than copters because they are less points but slightly more survivable. But it is a toss up the cheaper points being the biggest factor.

If you cut the boyz down to 10 men that saves 48 points (nearly enough for the 2 missing PKs).

Drop the kommandos and BW that generates another 290 points

Get 13 tunkbustas (2 units of 11, mek joins each) for 169, 2 Trukks for another 60. That still leaves enough points for a Nob in each squad with boss pole, some rams and some extra gubbins like a buzzsaw on one of the Deffkopters maybe an extra biker etc.

Wartrakk isn't cheaper than koptas...

Buggies are

So are Wartrakks not worth it?

Not really. They are throw away units no need to spend points on upgrades.

im afraid wartracks ARE worth it over buggies. especially where terrain can give cover to the units. MSU may be a good idea, however, i would say you need some tankbustas. i would keep the deffkoptas though!!! cheaper than they used to be, and people used to get them anyway!

I just learned its a Maelstrom tournament... If that means the list needs to be changed please let me know.

Nah, you're running ork cavalry. That's the best thing we've got for tactical a because we can get places on the board hella fast

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Revised list, thanks for the continued feedback:

Total- 1500

HQ- 290
-Grukk(130)- 130
-Big Mek with KFF, and Blitzbike- 120
-2 Mekaniak Meks with KMBs- 40

Troops- 538
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with PK, Shoota, and BP, Trukk with ram- 147
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with PK, Shoota, and BP, Trukk with ram- 147
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with BP, Trukk with ram- 122
-12 Boyz with Boss Nob with BP, Trukk with ram- 122

Elites- 282
-9 Tankbustas with 3 bomb squigs- 132
-8 Kommandos with 2 rokkits- 90
-Boss Snikrot- 60

Fast Attack- 250
-Wartrakk- 30
-3 Deffkoptas with rokkits- 90
5 Warbikers with Boss Nob with PK and BP- 130

Heavy Support- 140
-Battlewagon with kannon, 3 big shootas, ram, and grot riggers- 140

I'm still hoping to make my list TAC, so if you see any hard counters or units that are useless in the list please point them out.


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Really? No more critiques? It's perfect?

I would just dump the kpmmandos and snikkrot. If your looking for a distraction, a cheap deffkopta with twin linked rokkits can do that. I would add a second tankbusta unit (or lootas) in a trukk. For your fast attacks, I'd drop bikes and run two single deffkoptas and a unit of two trakks. Personally, I like the trakks cause its harder to immobilize them in terrain. The deffkoptas are throw away units that take the overwatch for your small unit of trukker boyz charging something. Whatever you decide I wouldnt take all koptas or all buggies/trakks both have their roles.

If you take one battlewagon, just paint "kill me" on the front. Your better off spamming trukks and spreading your wealth out. Opponents are gonna wanna shoot your good stuff first but if you got everything spread out in crap units, he/she is gonna be wasting a powerful unit of his shooting chaff of yours.

Maelstrom is fine for your list. All those trukks are scoring units too in addition to the boyz inside.

Day before tournament... Any last second critiques? MANZ go in BW, Grukk Goes with bustas in wagon with Meks, everything else is pretty obvious I think... A couple of last second doubts... Should I take a Lucky Stikk Megaboss instead of Grukk? Are the MANZ a good idea? Are 2 BWs and 4 Trukks overkill? Thanks for all the help, I'll be sure to tell you how it goes

Total- 1500

HQ- 290
-Grukk(130)- 130
-Big Mek with KFF, and Blitzbike- 120
-2 Mekaniak Meks with KMBs- 40

Troops- 502
-11 Boyz with Boss Nob with PK, Shoota, and BP, Trukk with ram- 141
-11 Boyz with Boss Nob with PK, Shoota, and BP, Trukk with ram- 141
-10 Boyz with Boss Nob with BP, Trukk with ram- 110
-10 Boyz with Boss Nob with BP, Trukk with ram- 110

Elites- 218
-6 Tankbustas with 3 bomb squigs- 93
-3 Meganobz with Boss Nob with bosspole- 125

Fast Attack- 220
-Wartrakk- 30
-Deffkopta with rokkits- 30
5 Warbikers with Boss Nob with PK and BP- 130

Heavy Support- 270
-Battlewagon with kannon, 2 big shootas, and ram- 135
-Battlewagon with kannon, 2 big shootas, and ram- 135

Maelstrom I'd want more scoring units.

Two things hurt in maelstrom, infantry and scoring troop transports.

With that said I think anything you have a big shoota on should have a rokkit.

If you aren't taking more than 12 in those Wagons maybe snag a killkannon.. Might not be optimal but trying to camp troops on an objective with a big pie plate staring at you makes people do bad tactical things and then get shot off objectives.

Tankbustas tend to be a self-destructive unit at only moderate range and with grenades that tend to define their purpose, you may not need to invest in three turns worth of bomb squigs.

I think I can deploy all three squigs at once...


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And I almost took a Killkannon but remembered hearing they were sub-optimal


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I'll make the rokkit change too... No more WYSIWYG for me! Lol

Well I mean it's very possible you may not get the oppurtunity to use all three squigs.

EDIT; Killcannons are probably on paper sub optimal. For the most part that's something I'm gonna be doing on my battlewagonz if they don't have more than 12. I only say that because I feel like they lowered the cost of kill cannon and increased the battlewagon to get orkz to do that. Using them is just something I intend to be doing because Large Blast templates do have an influence on play and I like having that. I mean think about it, with two rokkitz and a Kannon on your BW.. how many more points is the large blast template?

EDIT2; AP3... I mean it's nice to have something you can fire at space mehreens and ordance blast on vehicles.

It's going to be hard for me to find the points for a Killkannon, my model has one, just was going to count it as a regular Kannon, what can I drop to have room for a Killkannon?

And if I had the points for a Killkannon I'd probably try to find 10 more for another Meganob or buzz saws or something...


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1 Deffkopta might be better than a KK...


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So I had my game today and got tabled. He had a Dark Eldar warbeast deathstar that my little squads died to before they could attack... he also had AP2 weapons on a squad with 4 attacks each, that wrecked my Tankbusta squad... all his witches haywired my BWs... It was like as soon as he had first turn I was dead.