Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In more recent texts, books, fluff, thingies, whatever you wanna call those, etc it seems that Khorne is being portrayed more and more as a bloodthirsty god of battle. Anyone remember when there were mentions of him being "honorable"?
The only real proof is the fact that he hates Tzeentch, the God of trickery and magic from what I could find.

Does anyone have any fluff pieces they can share about Khorne being honorable? Any thoughts or comments welcome too.

The only time I remember honourable Khorne is in the epic renegades book.
Apart from that he hates cowardice, but loves treachery and wanton slaughter.
So not so honourable for the most part.

If your definition of honorable is to kill your enemies in an open and straightforward manner Khorne is your man. And maybe there is some little honor in a quick kill instead of torturing people for fun.

Animus wrote:The only time I remember honourable Khorne is in the epic renegades book.
Apart from that he hates cowardice, but loves treachery and wanton slaughter.
So not so honourable for the most part.

Spetulhu wrote:If your definition of honorable is to kill your enemies in an open and straightforward manner Khorne is your man. And maybe there is some little honor in a quick kill instead of torturing people for fun.

I like both of these answers.

it seems that Khorne is being portrayed more and more as a bloodthirsty god of battle. Anyone remember when there were mentions of him being "honorable"?

Khorne is extremely honorable. Look at why you're posting though. Honor is a way for Khorne to be gussied up into something more approachable. Think about people who buy a gun to protect their families, and who are diligent about learning all the gun safety they need and how to shoot well so that they can perform their best when they day comes that they need to use their new skills. At some point they have spent so much time preparing and thinking about that day that they start fantasizing that someone will threaten their family, just so that they can validate the equipment and the skills that have become a huge part of their lives. Everyone wants to put their skills to good use.

You can make all the movies you want about reluctant heroes standing up to evil, but if you really though violence was so bad you'd make a movie about sailboats or gardening instead.

If you have a code of honor and a warrior caste in your society, how many samurai do you need to have? Enough that you forget to invent the steam ship and get so left behind that you have to assimilate a bunch of foreign stuff like neckties and cassette players?

"honor" as a thing that you can worship/fetishize is a trick to get you to start seeing all problems in terms of violence, so that even if you do not end up using violence in a specific situation, it was always on your mind.

Khorne is not honourable at all.

He 'cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows'

Khorne is honorable in the sense that his worship follows a very basic code of martial pride. The weak and defenseless are unworthy prey when there are other warriors to test one's mettle against... but if you even up the odds by, say, being an unemployed hab-worker who preys upon his/her fellow hab-workers with a rusty knife, then there is a place for you among the followers of the Blood God (yes, your bog-standard serial killer can venerate Khorne just fine, the Blood God cares not).

If the weak and defenseless are the only available targets? Well, then, blood for the Blood God, skulls for the Skull Throne!

 Psienesis wrote:
Khorne is honorable in the sense that his worship follows a very basic code of martial pride. The weak and defenseless are unworthy prey when there are other warriors to test one's mettle against... but if you even up the odds by, say, being an unemployed hab-worker who preys upon his/her fellow hab-workers with a rusty knife, then there is a place for you among the followers of the Blood God (yes, your bog-standard serial killer can venerate Khorne just fine, the Blood God cares not).

If the weak and defenseless are the only available targets? Well, then, blood for the Blood God, skulls for the Skull Throne!

Pretty much this.

It seems like at some point in 40K history, there was a time where a Khorne Beserker slaughtering his way through a school of terminally ill mentally challenged toddlers would have pissed Khorne off. That's not really the case now though and hasn't been at least for a long time, so long as that School of terminally ill mentally challenged toddlers was the only thing in slaughtering-distance.

he sits on a throne of skulls which is on a carpet of bones surrounded by river of blood..... Some how I don't think he wants much in the way of a straight forward fight.

He is like me I thinks, it not worth fighting someone/thing if you know you can win but if they get in the way... you know they need to be moved. None of this wizard battles throwing stick crap give me 4 fists and you got a fight lol.

I don't think honor has anything to do with it I mean Khorne is a god what use does he have for honor. For him it's kill or be killed and both outcomes suit him just fine.

His followers on the other hand are a different story, it's been shown in fluff that those of Khornes followers who maintain relative sanity will honor a worthy opponent out of respect for their skill/talent/ferocity/strength etc. This most often includes taking their skull as a trophy vs simply crushing it to dust but to each their own.

I'd say that khorne isn't honorable. Honor is just a bunch of pointless, subjective rules that cloud an otherwise pure and straightforward worldview.

Khorne is the god of competition and victory. It's about seeing who's best. Anything that gives one side an unfair disadvantage should be discarded.

I could possibly see khorne approving of handicaps (He would rather you slaughter your way through that orphanage with your bare hands than nuking it from orbit), as that is a way of showing off skill in a way. But some arbitrary code of martial ethics? I think khorne would pass on that.

Khorne wants you to compete, and be the best you possibly can. No honor, no picking on weak and feeble targets, no winning through deceit or getting others to do it for you. Just you at your blinding rage best.

The God of Perfection is Slaanesh. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, so long as people are killing and dying in his name.

Slaanesh is the god of noise, not the god of perfection. They take drugs and expose themselves to sensation, not compete with each other to be the best at something.

 Ailaros wrote:
Slaanesh is the god of noise, not the god of perfection. They take drugs and expose themselves to sensation, not compete with each other to be the best at something.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slaanesh

Lexicanum wrote:Slaanesh is the Chaos God of lust, greed, excess, pain, pleasure, perfection and hedonism. Slaanesh was the last of the major Chaos Gods to be born—coming into existence with the collapse of the Eldar civilisation.

... and that goes back to Realms of Chaos.

Ah, I see. Khorne is me. I will break alliances in games to keep the slaughter going. It all makes sense now.

In the original fluff, he was. It was about martial pride and duels and so on and so forth. As editions came and went, he became a mindless slavering bloodthirsty monster who cares nothing about pride or honor so long as he gets his skulls. Innocent helpless children? Khorne demands they be slaughtered just for their skulls.
I prefer the older incarnation but then of course, I started chaos in the original Realm of Chaos books.

Far as I can tell, Khorne is "honorable" in terms of having rules in a fight itself. IE, no magic, melee is preferred to ranged (but range vs range is okay. It's when you use range to hide from melee that's a problem apparently, hence Khorne's particularly favored melee servants having protection against ranged attacks), and... um... no back stabbing/stealth/whatever, etc etc.

Outside of battle, all bets are off. At least in present day fluff. So don't count on him (and by extension, his followers) to be honorable in terms of honoring vows and contracts (as Kharn the Betrayer would attest. Or practically any World Eater who isn't Macer Varren) or sparing the weak (though Khorne gets pissed if you attack the weak as an excuse to avoid attacking the strong. Also, you're allowed to spare the weak if you have stronger foes to fight elsewhere, at least in the Black Crusade RPG series. If no strong foes are around, though, you'd better start killing SOMETHING)

OgreChubbs wrote:
he sits on a throne of skulls which is on a carpet of bones surrounded by river of blood.....

He is like me I thinks

Does Khorne post on Dakka too?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Far as I can tell, Khorne is "honorable" in terms of having rules in a fight itself. IE, no magic, melee is preferred to ranged (but range vs range is okay. It's when you use range to hide from melee that's a problem apparently, hence Khorne's particularly favored melee servants having protection against ranged attacks), and... um... no back stabbing/stealth/whatever, etc etc.

Actually, Khorne doesn't mind psy powers. He just despies tricky sorcerry but if you straightforward pierce your foe with mind bullets, Khorne's cool bout it. It's just the misunderstanding probably coming from World Eater's slaughter of their librarians.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Slaanesh is the god of noise, not the god of perfection. They take drugs and expose themselves to sensation, not compete with each other to be the best at something.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slaanesh

Lexicanum wrote:Slaanesh is the Chaos God of lust, greed, excess, pain, pleasure, perfection and hedonism. Slaanesh was the last of the major Chaos Gods to be born—coming into existence with the collapse of the Eldar civilisation.

... and that goes back to Realms of Chaos.

This is the part that I really want to get my head around. I understand the dichotomy between Tzeentch and Nurgle perfectly. Tzeentch says you can change your fate, while Nurgle says accept your fate and I'll take care of things.

But what is the dichotomy between a god of violence and war and a god of sensation and pleasure? Khorne says be straight up with your foe, while Slaanesh says try to trick them? That doesn't quite sound right.

Has anyone managed to come up with a good summation of their mutual hatred?

The way that I see it is that Khorne is a straight up kind of guy. He doesn't care that you worship him, he just wants your blood. Or someone else's. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, simply that it flows. With Khorne, there's no deception. I don't mean in war his guys just run straight at you, I mean that he doesn't trick or coerce you. Get busy killing or get busy dying, Khorne cares not which. That's why Khorne prefers melee. He hates cowards, as they kill no one. In melee, cowards tend to die. At a range, it's easier to drop your gun and hide. But if you like watching bolter rounds blow people up... what are you waiting for reload and keep shooting.

Slaanesh, on the other hand is the Prince of Deceit. You can be tricked into worshipping her slowly, not realizing it until you're too far gone to stop. Slaanesh is She Who Thirsts. He shows a preference for Eldar souls. Philosophically, He also has you focus on you. Your desires. Your decadence. Your obsession. He might feed on your obsession, but you're still focusing on you.

Khorne doesn't care about you. He wants skulls and blood and your skull is a good as someone else's. The ultimate egalitarian. We're all red on the inside.

Indeed. That's the point - slaughter is the ultimate goal. Khorne doesn't really care whether you win or lose, only that one of you dies.

By comparison, a pair of perfection-obsessed slaaneshi duellists might be fighting to first blood - the winner marring the other with a scar and ruining their perfect* visage.

Slaanesh applauds and approves of displays of skill and excellence.

Khorne roars with anger and demands that one of the useless fops stops prissying about and just kills the other.


At the same time, some skulls are worth more. A hard-fought kill is something to be respected, whereas if you 'cheated' - be that artillery, magic, poison, whatever, it doesn't count. Khorne will still accept the offering, but grudgingly.

Khorne is much like Angron in Betrayer (unsurprisingly). They have many, many flaws but one thing they are unfailingly is honest.


* By slaaneshi standards, so possibly already freaky as hell

locarno24 wrote:


Khorne is much like Angron in Betrayer (unsurprisingly). They have many, many flaws but one thing they are unfailingly is honest.

Not really. Khorne himself cares nothing about honesty, honour or anything else. Only the slaughter.

However, Khorne tends to attract a lot of Warrior-types, and many of them come with all sorts of honour codes, warrior values, etc., etc., etc., (be honest, don't kill unarmed innocents, etc..).

These people will cling to their old values to various degrees, as long as they aren't (like Angron) yet 100% corrupted (as opposed to only being 50% or 80% corrupted, etc..).

Angron isn't Khorne. He brings baggage into the whole corruption/path to daemonhood thing, which is uniquely Angron, and Khorne doesn't care about Angrons honesty, honour, etc.., as long as it doesn't get in the way of slaughter.

Khorne is the pinnacle of what a honorable warrior can achieve, he is also the polar opposite of what a warrior can become, he is the amalgamation of all violence and feelings of every combatant in all realities, so some societies may believe in pure bloodletting and other that killing woman and children is wrong and as such his minions will act accordingly, just because we don't see it in the 40k novels doesn't mean it doesn't happen, if you only look at the codex fluff then all the pantheon are one sided, read all the extended fluff and the liber chaotica books and you will get a better understanding of what is a cruelly great concept gw has stumbled upon

The only thing i find honorable about Khorne is that he dissaproves of torture, IMO the quick killing blow is more honourable than torturing someone to insanity while in state of ecstatic pleasure amirite?
Also, he DOES challenge his followers to kill the nastiest things first, but both the fact that he doesn't care from where the blood flows and his followers go nuts over time due to butcher's nails(in case of CSM) you end up with his devotees sacrificing a pool of toddlers and Kharn slaughtering 10.000 civilians single handedly
swell guy that Kharn

The current version of Khorne is all about the slaughter, doesn't care who it is, just so long as the blood flows and the skulls do their throne thing.

From what I've read of the previous versions of 40k and Fantasy, Khorne was all about honorable combat. There were stories of guys who venerated Khorne as they maimed and murdered defenseless folks, Khorne wouldn't have that and generally smote the bejesus out of those guys.

The issue with khorne is how the fluff has changed over the years. I started on the Realm of Chaos books while other started later.
For anyone interested in chaos at all, I would suggest getting your hands on those two books (Realm of chaos Slaves to Darkness and Realm of chaos the lost and the damned) in one form or another. You'll notice many differences but I think the changing face of khorne is the biggest. One of his changes is in his martial pride stance to outright slaughter and another is his current disdain of ranged weapons. In there, his followers were the most likely to be gifted with heavy weapons.

Mayhaps, GW just has him degenerating as part of the plot. Who knows? lol

Khorne is about pride. Not honor. The thirst for physical prowess is his game. It's still said that his followers would much rather murder things with their bare hands than shoot them to death, but sometimes it's the only way to close range. There was an honorable side of Khorne, and it still exists to some degree, but he is ancient and reflects what is currently going on in the universe. Remember that all the chaos powers are reflections of psyches, both human and not. I think that as the universe of 40k goes even more brutal, you'll see him characterized as being even more about slaughter than prowess. This keeps in line with the fluff. Do note that Khorne still prizes the skulls of those who put up an admirable fight. It's rather amazing that he lets Skulltaker keep his prized trophies, really, but then Skulltaker is one of his most prized manifestations.

This won't be terribly helpful, but I definitely remember reading a story where a World Eater champ salutes someone (A Blood Angel? Maybe a Space Wolf) after he ends up defeating a lot of CSMs in some battle somewhere...

Hopefully someone with a better memory than me will remember where that story came from!

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Slaanesh is the god of noise, not the god of perfection. They take drugs and expose themselves to sensation, not compete with each other to be the best at something.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slaanesh

Lexicanum wrote:Slaanesh is the Chaos God of lust, greed, excess, pain, pleasure, perfection and hedonism. Slaanesh was the last of the major Chaos Gods to be born—coming into existence with the collapse of the Eldar civilisation.

... and that goes back to Realms of Chaos.

This is the part that I really want to get my head around. I understand the dichotomy between Tzeentch and Nurgle perfectly. Tzeentch says you can change your fate, while Nurgle says accept your fate and I'll take care of things.

But what is the dichotomy between a god of violence and war and a god of sensation and pleasure? Khorne says be straight up with your foe, while Slaanesh says try to trick them? That doesn't quite sound right.

Has anyone managed to come up with a good summation of their mutual hatred?

RoC states that it is Slaanesh's "effette, prancing fopperies" that offend the Blood God, and Slaanesh finds Khorne to be terribly boorish.

It's pity that Khorne was degraded to this point. Yes, Khorne as a god of warriors do posses same traits as those who are typically found in a soldier and thus not only honor, but duty and discipline should be observed in the Khrone. Khrone in fact do possess discipline, but I doubt abour rest two aspects. Writers rarely stop to think that their god represents and how some castes of Khrone worshiping warriors might turn out to be. A god doesn't have to be just about one thing. As there are many ways to worship one god, from mindless frenzy slaughter to honor duels with orks warbosses and necron lords. Gods are also worshiped by a different name. Tribes and other warriors are quite often found to be worshiping Khrone just in his different name and form. Another aspect is Khaine. You can see how god of war can act. Khaine is just a product of Eldar focused emotions to their own entity. Same emotions are flowing to Khrone also and in far greater quantities and thus, they change Khrone accordingly. Every conscious being influences gods in their own way.


One good example is how some in the Imperium chooses to worship the Emperor. They bring sacrifices to ''him'' and with their religious zeal their performs extensive rituals and acts of worship thus feeding some entity in the warp. This entity is growing and in time of great apocalypse it might awaken just as Slaneesh did. Imperium has quite a chance to regain their immortal god Emperor or at least a demon who is born to be ''the Emperor''.

Khorne is the god of warfare, carnage, bloodshed and slaughter. What traits his followers may or may not exhibit is beyond his caring. So long as people kill and die in his name, Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows.

All who shed the blood of their fellow sentients have a place in the service of Khorne, from soldiers and warriors to wanton butchers to brilliant military leaders to raving psychopathic killers. Khorne cares not.