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That's the thing though, isn't it? DP9 has to cater to a wide variety of tastes. I like how the less bulky, bulbous look of the Gears helps distinguish them from their real-robot predecessors. I expect they'll get the Cobra treatment, and that's cool too.

Nomeny wrote:
I think they look good.

Are you the actual DP9 sculptor ?
You're the first person on the internet to actually like them.

Heh, I wish I was the sculptor. I've been looking for a sculptor to do some work for me for ages, and I don't have time to learn. Although, just to be pedantic, I'm probably just the first person who has told you that I like them.

Yeah...they definitely look off. The Cheetah's legs have grown, and did the White Cat always have the giant shoulderpads like they came out of a World of Warcraft zone?

The Ferret, nice work taking out all the detail out of the torso and turning it into a giant block. Also the V-engine does look small.


Though to be honest, with the V-engines, I'd be okay if they downscaled most of them, as they are comically large in most Blitz figs.

I pretty much agree with the above. While the Tiger seemed "off" but I couldn't really nail down exactly why, the cheetah and ferret seem like someone stretched them on the rack. The cheetah can mainly be fixed by simply shortening the thighs but the white cat definitely needs some shrinkage on those ridiculous 1980's shoulder pads. The ferret's waist just seems way off as well both in shape as well as height. If their goal is to homogenize all the gears sizes back to RAFM ratios then keep the thighs. I don't like them but I won't be buying any regardless as I have enough metal cheetahs as long as the decision is not just random/lazy sculptor but instead is a consistent and persistent design change for the whole line. I just cut and paisted the cheetah torso below from the KS update pic further down the legs to give it a ratio more consistent with the last 10 years worth of metal models and art.

Nomeny wrote:
That's the thing though, isn't it? DP9 has to cater to a wide variety of tastes. I like how the less bulky, bulbous look of the Gears helps distinguish them from their real-robot predecessors. I expect they'll get the Cobra treatment, and that's cool too.

Okay but... Frames. Frames do that.

Gears, both North and South, share a very distinctive look. You can tell they're related, despite the blocky/round parity. Deciding to piss away that distinct aesthetic that has been cultured for 20 years just to distinguish them from their inspiration is a bad reason. If that's all the artist is capable of, or the guy making the molds has told DP9 that's all he can do, well, that's a different kettle of fish. But the Pod didn't go into this with a promise of "Reinventing the look!!" They went it to it swinging the "20 years!!" banner.

If they want to change things up the way the live action movies did for Transformers, cool, more power to them. If they want to just make plastic versions of what they've got, then they need to start cracking the whip a little more on the artist. It's good that they're responding to feedback, that marks a very positive step for the attitude at the company, and I'm not so worried about how BAD the Cheetah and co. look as I otherwise would be. But this project isn't for changing things up and making new, radical designs. It's about giving us the same thing, in plastic. And in the majority of cases, that's not what we've seen (until feedback has been received.)

So politely give feedback? Presumably that's why the Pod are soliciting it.

I'll add that I like the Cheetas' longer legs. Makes it look more 'cheeta' and fast.

Nomeny wrote:
So politely give feedback? Presumably that's why the Pod are soliciting it.

I'll add that I like the Cheetas' longer legs. Makes it look more 'cheeta' and fast.

DP9 neither solicits, nor cares about feedback. All feedback that does not consist of "Here's my money and internal organs, take what you want" is considered impolite in all cases.
Feedback that consists of "Here's my money and internal organs, take what you want" is not feedback.

As for the Cheetahs, Leopards do not look like leopards. I see no reason for Cheetahs to look like cheetahs.
Which they don't, BTW. All the renderings I have seen show Gears with human proportions instead of Gear proportions.

Well, I can understand why, in your specific case, DP9 might file your feedback in the circular filing cabinet,

I think you sum it up well when you say that the Gears are depicted with human proportions. I think that's what I like about them. Not to say that the older, 'gear' proportions are bad, but they look like they could actually walk with more human proportions. Still, rule of cool, I suppose.

Out of curiosity for all you facebookers, how is the reception of the renders on Brandon's facebook group? I've found that the responses you get from the more long term/hardcore fans here on forums and KS comments weren't actually indicative of the responses from more casual come and go fans at least in Robotech. I'm curious if the reception there is any different (excluding obviously those who may post on both venues).

The reception I've read on The Dice Abide is really positive.

Link? They don't seem to have any recent HG articles.

http://www.thediceabide.com/category/other-games/heavy-gear/

Just regulars in the chat-box.

I guess we'll have to take your word on this really positive feedback that differs so much from both dakka and the official dp9 forums. Are you on the facebook group?

I went in for $1 and from what I've seen son far, I'll be staying at $1.

 warboss wrote:
I guess we'll have to take your word on this really positive feedback that differs so much from both dakka and the official dp9 forums. Are you on the facebook group?

Dude... don't feed the troll.

 warboss wrote:
I pretty much agree with the above. While the Tiger seemed "off" but I couldn't really nail down exactly why, the cheetah and ferret seem like someone stretched them on the rack. The cheetah can mainly be fixed by simply shortening the thighs but the white cat definitely needs some shrinkage on those ridiculous 1980's shoulder pads. The ferret's waist just seems way off as well both in shape as well as height. If their goal is to homogenize all the gears sizes back to RAFM ratios then keep the thighs. I don't like them but I won't be buying any regardless as I have enough metal cheetahs as long as the decision is not just random/lazy sculptor but instead is a consistent and persistent design change for the whole line. I just cut and paisted the cheetah torso below from the KS update pic further down the legs to give it a ratio more consistent with the last 10 years worth of metal models and art.

This looks amazingly better. I've been enjoying all the work done so far but these last few have me upset. I fell in love with HG from the video game and these new models just don't look right. They are, like someone said, human proportions, and they really shouldn't be.

Have you sent your feedback with this image to them? I would love it if they made this change.

Dave might be checking on this thread periodically (even if he doesn't post) but that is about it. The pic just illustrates the feedback given here so feel free to post it on the official forums as I haven't logged in there since last year.

 warboss wrote:
I guess we'll have to take your word on this really positive feedback that differs so much from both dakka and the official dp9 forums. Are you on the facebook group?

You don't have to take my word for it. You can hop on the chatbox and ask the regulars yourself. These days around 4pm Atlantic time is when the most people seem to be online. I'm not on the Facebook group. Got a link for that? edit: You mean the DP9 facebook group? I'm on that.

No, sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to the one started by dp9forum regular BrandonKF who calls it the DMZ Heavy Gear group. In any case, it's a bit of a moot point as another update went out and DP9 is responding to the feedback. While I'm glad that they are, I'm surprised that no one is proactively catching these things when it seems that the gaming populace wants to continue the existing designs instead of making super tall Imperator Rex Cheetahs.

Been watching this thread and laughing for a while. So much vitriol, not all of it undeserved.

I bought into the KS for a full starter set. I've always like the HG asthetics, and was waiting for a plastic mix up to come in before buying in any significant amounts.

The new rules are... coming along. I'm seeing a lot of changing of mechanics, and a lot of response to feedback on it. It's a very mixed bag right now, but there's a lot of potential for the new ruleset to be AT LEAST as polished and workable as 40k 7e. *SNICKER*

Models. What i really came for, because I can write my own rules in a poke. Keeping in mind that the way the renders look in wire frame is not equivocal to how final models will look coming out of the molds, I'd say that right now it's another mixed bag. There does certainly seem to be an aesthetic shift going on, I'm not really sure I like most of it.

My biggest harumphs (personally) are the moving away from Gear proportions (and the shared North/South heritage). I think the longer thighs and human proportions would make for a nice refresh on the Paxton Gears, and it would help give them their own DNA, more so than they already have. Also, some model (ferret and cheetah esp) are looking very bland. Finally, casting the feet and legs together makes a physically stronger model, with lower parts count, the trade off being lack of detail in joint.

On the other hand, and I'm sure this will really bring out the pitchforks, I really like where the Caprice models are going. Shape and feel is great, it's going to come down to detail, and that's very hard to judge from renders.

It also really seems that the responding to feedback attitude has been an abrupt shift, from looking through here and the dp9 forums. It's a good shift, so far, I hope it keeps up.

I personally have no doubt my models will be delivered late, because it's a kickstarter. But the behavior the last month or two, especially considering communication and response to feedback, is making me hopeful that the models will be nice.

At the very least, they'll be great kitbash bits.

Looks like the new update says they received the feedback and are going to work on the previous models. Personally I like the grizzly model. The grizzly is the gear I remember and it's the model I saw on wikipedia that made me find the website and almost buy the northern army pack at something like $120 last year. I'm glad I waited because I'm getting one of all of the models I want, which is basically all I wanted anyway as I think I'll only get to play with one friend who is willing to try any game (for free).

I know there's a lot of negativity here and I bet I'd be on that side of the fence too if I was in your position. You're all watching this thing you've cared so much for decades and every move seems to hurt. It made me buy though, it made me look more into HG.

Considering the models were supposed to be done and completely locked down IIRC in May and we're a few days away from July and still tweaking, I'd say you're correct. That two months and counting delay in the current step will have to get accounted for later as I doubt they have a buffer than can account for this multimonth delay plus whatever else comes up. I agree though with most of your comments (can't speak to the rules since it has been a year since I looked them over).

I was a bit surprised to see in the comments for one update the admission to being five or so weeks behind, as that statement of status never appeared anywhere else to the best of my knowledge.

 warboss wrote:
[..] I'm surprised that no one is proactively catching these things when it seems that the gaming populace wants to continue the existing designs instead of making super tall Imperator Rex Cheetahs.

Good point, but let's be honest - how many times in the past, just in your own experiences, have potential issues been pointed out by somebody yet TPTB didn't change anything before that whatever got previewed/released just to still need the same fix(es) anyways.

And in that vein, another oddity; since when have the square reinforcement blocks on the Kodiak & Grizzly shoulder armor facings been inset rather than extending outwards?
Like, never.

 warboss wrote:
[..] Are you on the facebook group?

An interesting point or two about the FB group, for those who haven't yet checked it out:
- It is public, but only if you have a FB account and can/are logged in, as it cannot be viewed otherwise.
- Unlike the G+ community (which has lost a few members again after hitting over 100, even though it's all but a deadzone post-wise) you cannot simply join the facebook group; one of the moderators must approve your application.

Not exactly an open forum for much any kind of meaningful feedback?

Nomeny wrote:
Well, I can understand why, in your specific case, DP9 might file your feedback in the circular filing cabinet, [..]

While TPTB in Pod-land may dislike the mutual history they helped to shape... that does not in the end, or quite often in the past, make what he says wrong and not worth consideration.

I didn't notice the inset armor plates on the shoulders but, yeah, that's not right or cool. :( What hit me was the "usual" with the 3D designs namely that the waist looks off. The armor plates on the front groin as well as the butt plate seem too small at first glance for both and not the right shape for the front.



The angled cuts have been minimized giving the front plates an almost rectangular instead of leaf shape and they're too small. The thighs on both the current model and the concept art are almost invisible whereas you can clearly see them on the 3D render. As for the back, Sir Mix a Lot would not be a happy gear pilot. If anyone agrees with the above, feel free to post the pics/details or link here for feedback. Again, I'm really not sure how this is slipping through the cracks.... or is this digital version of the old Blitz era crowdsourced spell check/editing for WTFs? Or is the pod purposefully trying to move away from the existing metal designs? Their willingness to change stuff doesn't really point to the former but rather the latter which is both impressive (they're responding to feedback!) and depressing (why the hell is no one taking the 3D image and simply putting it side by side with metal mini pics?).

Even the initial not always on the mark 3D renders back last Fall kept quite a bit of the "bulk" inherent to the Gear models - which seems to largely have been done away with since those first previews and videos, especially for the Northern designs.

If not a move to somehow save on plastic per each mold injection, I'd venture the possibility of some kind of "flow" limitation imposed by whichever type of plastic they finally decided to utilize.


But yeah, amongst other issues the Kodiak & Grizzly torsos appear undersized and the waist area too elongated in the vertical plane.
The arms seem about right for length compared to some of the other new renders, but as with the 'Spit & King look kind of thinned overall.

No idea as to a possible why for the engines, drums, and buttplates all to have gotten shrunk as on so many other previews.
I wonder what kind of source material is being/was provided to the artist(s).


Additional visual comparisons:
1/35 Plastic Kit
Kodiak Proportions w/Pilot
Virtual Alternative-Kodiak (NSFW site)

maceria wrote:
On the other hand, and I'm sure this will really bring out the pitchforks, I really like where the Caprice models are going. Shape and feel is great, it's going to come down to detail, and that's very hard to judge from renders.

Not sure why... the Caprice stuff has been the best looking so far, by a very wide margin. Might have to do with them probably being the easiest to sculpt (and the least susceptible to the staticness of the poses), but hey, they look fine.

Just how many of you are on Facebook? Answer yea or nay in a reply.

Tydil wrote:
Looks like the new update says they received the feedback and are going to work on the previous models. Personally I like the grizzly model. The grizzly is the gear I remember and it's the model I saw on wikipedia that made me find the website and almost buy the northern army pack at something like $120 last year. I'm glad I waited because I'm getting one of all of the models I want, which is basically all I wanted anyway as I think I'll only get to play with one friend who is willing to try any game (for free).

I know there's a lot of negativity here and I bet I'd be on that side of the fence too if I was in your position. You're all watching this thing you've cared so much for decades and every move seems to hurt. It made me buy though, it made me look more into HG.

Very well said. The plastic is going to help expand the game and put it on a good track. It's not going to invalidate metal models, or previous editions of the rules. Even if it's not exactly what old grognards may have personally wanted, it's great for developing a community and the game.

As long as it's good, that is, and correctly priced.

You might have noticed some other opinions on this thread coming from people other than "old grognards" of the game that wasn't exactly stellar either. Like this one, for example:

 Alpharius wrote:
I went in for $1 and from what I've seen son far, I'll be staying at $1.

But of course, we won't know for sure one way or the other until we see something real: I'd say this might be a good time to assemble a couple of physical, 3d printed prototypes. That way they could show off how it all works together and put them besides the current metal range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nomeny wrote:
Very well said. The plastic is going to help expand the game and put it on a good track. It's not going to invalidate metal models, or previous editions of the rules. Even if it's not exactly what old grognards may have personally wanted, it's great for developing a community and the game.

Yeah, alienating the Pod's existing player base worked so well when they changed ranges and scale from RAFM to Tact, that I can see how appealling would be to repeat it now.