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So everything is out in the open I do not know much about Warmachine. I have read the topics on here saying that it is a tighter ruleset and cheaper. So I was intrigued and looked into it.

I have taken an 1850pt Warhammer 40k list from the Army List section vs Xareath's tournament list at Feast of Blades (found in the Warmachine Forum Day 1 Report)

So everyone knows NO discounts were included. All are MSRP.

Here is the Breakdown:

Chaos Daemons:
Fateweaver - 57.75
Herald of Tzeentch (No official model, used Changeling) - 19.25
Herald of Tzeentch (Diddo) - 19.25
30x Pink Horrors - 29x3
5 Screamers - 29.75x2
Daemon Prince - 41.25
Daemon Prince - 41.25
Total: $325.25

Xareaths 50pt List 1:
Morvahna2 - 29.99
Warpwolf Stalker - 34.99
Warpwolf Stalker - 34.99
Gorax - 18.99
Tharn Ravagers (He says Max, can't see how many are in there so 1 box has 6. Left it at that) - 54.99
Chieftan - 17.99
Shaman - 15.99
Warborn Skinwalkers - (Again Max, Box comes with 5 so left it at that) - 44.99
Warpborn Alpha - 21.99
Shifting Stones - 11.99
Stonekeeper - 9.99
Gallows Grove - 24.99
Gallows Grove - 24.99
Blackclad Wayferer - 12.99
Total: $359.86

Now we add list 2:
Kreuger2 - 13.99
Ghetorix - 16.99
Warpwolf Stalker - Bought for previous list. 0.00
Gorax - Diddo 0.00
Tharn Bloodtrackers - 54.99
Nuala - 11.99
Druids of Orboros - 34.99
Overseer - 10.99
Shifting Stones - Purchased previously 0.00
Stone Keeper - Diddo 0.00
Stoneward and Wold Stalkers - 24.99
Gallows Grove - Purchased Previously - 0.00
Blackclad Wayferer - Diddo - 0.00
Total $528.79 (Added two lists together.

So Warmachine is not cheaper. Whats everyone smoking?

You didn't add the more than $100 in rulebooks to the GW list while the WM books are free or $25 abouts if you want the fluff.

Next, outside of a tournament, I never play 50pt games (others might).

Next, cheaper entry cost for WM and you can build over time.

Rules are tighter, models not as nice in some cases but WM is more fun to me because I don't have to look through 20 supplements whenever I play someone and argue over poorly written rules.

I don't mean this to be rude, but just taking a cursory glance at another game, with no other knowledge of it, and comparing it to another won't get you a good picture. First off, you're not including the rules. That's $135 more for 40k and $30 more for WMH. Secondly, I don't understand why you're taking two WMH lists and putting the costs together, can you please elaborate?

 Accolade wrote:
I don't mean this to be rude, but just taking a cursory glance at another game, with no other knowledge of it, and comparing it to another won't get you a good picture. First off, you're not including the rules. That's $135 more for 40k and $30 more for WMH. Secondly, I don't understand why you're taking two WMH lists and putting the costs together, can you please elaborate?

He's comparing the costs for a complete model collection in WM vs a small 40k list that still needs tons of troops for all of the summoning that he'll be doing.

Okay, that's what I thought. Well that again brings me back to my first point: with basically no knowledge of a game system, how the forces break down and everything else, making claims that the community is "smoking something" is just brewing for a flame war.

I'm sorry, I just think finding this one example and saying "see guys, this proves it!" is incredibly disingenuous without the knowledge and understanding to back it up.

Uh huh. Now go price other lists please. Say, guard, foot nids etc. throw in expensive £ to points units like rhinos. Now compare.

But to be fair, you are incorrect when you say people sell warmachine on the 'but it's cheaper' tag. At least I don't. You forgot three important words.

Warmachine is cheaper to buy in.

A 50pt list (standard size game) will generally set you back less than a standard sized 40k list (1500pts). Unlike 40k, the costs aren't front loaded. Rulebook. War room. Caster. Battle box. Off you go. Expand slowly. The expansion can be as expensive as anything from 40k, but again, it's not front loaded.

Just so I dont get some one to say well you chose the cheapest army blah blah blah. Here is JY2's Necron List.

Bargelord - 37.25
Bargelord - 37.25
(4x) 5x Warriors - 36.25 x 2
4x Night Scythe - 45.5
10x Wraiths - 47x4
3x Annhihilation Barge - 37.25 x 3
Total $554.25

So this list is 25 dollars more. This list will also win you or get you top 5 in every tournament. I dont think the price difference is there at all.

And my nid swarm?

Well, I made a similar calculation with my Necron army vs my Cyriss faction.
I could re-elaborate tomorrow as it caused some debates here.

In WMH tournaments a player can field 1-2 or 1-3 lists of the same faction.
In Germany we often play at the 42 pt level.

I knew it would happen. I chose 2 50pt lists because that is what Warmachine tournaments are played at just like I chose an 1850pt list for 40k because that is the standard tournament. Rulebooks dont matter because most of us know how to download them for free.

Also the first CD list has $200 to spend on summoning units.

You would need more lists from both companies to be more convincing. I am unmoved by your limited data. Your only GW example is a pretty low model count list. I'd throw in a SM, Ork, Tau, and Eldar to really have a good comparison point.

Also, i'd rather see it as a $ per Point ratio than a flat total.
in your example,

List 1: $0.18 per GW point
List 2: $0.19 per GW point
List 3: $0.29 per GW point

List 1: $6.51 per PP point
List 2: $7.20 per PP point
List 3: $10.58 per PP point

That's my $.02.

Incognito15 wrote:
Rulebooks dont matter because most of us know how to download them for free.

No, that's illegal. You don't get to factor "I can just steal this part" into the overall costs.

The 40k list is probably the absolute cheapest 1850 list in existence. That and maybe straight Paladins.

Your example is bad and you should feel bad.

A 1000pts Guard list will easily push $500.

Incognito15 wrote:
I knew it would happen. I chose 2 50pt lists because that is what Warmachine tournaments are played at just like I chose an 1850pt list for 40k because that is the standard tournament. Rulebooks dont matter because most of us know how to download them for free.

Also the first CD list has $200 to spend on summoning units.

Except they do matter. Otherwise we can talk about the 'five finger discount' for our models too, if we factor in stealing.

Incognito15 wrote:
Rulebooks dont matter because most of us know how to download them for free.

lol

Then a WM/H is free because I just steal it.

Deadnight wrote:
And my nid swarm?

Your screwed. Nids just cost a buttload. Except most people that play Nids that I know buy every model and every FW model so usually they dont collect because of price.

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
And my nid swarm?

Your screwed. Nids just cost a buttload. Except most people that play Nids that I know buy every model and every FW model so usually they dont collect because of price.

So is warmachine cheaper then?

 Blacksails wrote:
The 40k list is probably the absolute cheapest 1850 list in existence. That and maybe straight Paladins.

Your example is bad and you should feel bad.

A 1000pts Guard list will easily push $500.

Keep reading I example Necrons too.

So your comparison in prices is only valid if you say it is?

So an expensive 40k army doesn't count?

Its pretty easy to make an argument about the cost of two games when you deliberately pick the cheapest options of one and the most expensive of another.

Deadnight wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
And my nid swarm?

Your screwed. Nids just cost a buttload. Except most people that play Nids that I know buy every model and every FW model so usually they dont collect because of price.

So is warmachine cheaper?

I dont know. All I see from this is that there is almost no difference.

Incognito15 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
The 40k list is probably the absolute cheapest 1850 list in existence. That and maybe straight Paladins.

Your example is bad and you should feel bad.

A 1000pts Guard list will easily push $500.

Keep reading I example Necrons too.

And my nids example proves what then?

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
And my nid swarm?

Your screwed. Nids just cost a buttload. Except most people that play Nids that I know buy every model and every FW model so usually they dont collect because of price.

So is warmachine cheaper?

I dont know. All I see from this is that there is almost know difference.

Then look harder.

 Blacksails wrote:
So your comparison in prices is only valid if you say it is?

So an expensive 40k army doesn't count?

Its pretty easy to make an argument about the cost of two games when you deliberately pick the cheapest options of one and the most expensive of another.

Where do I choose the cheapest and the most expensive. All I did was pick 2 lists and compared. Then added a second 40k because I knew the flames where coming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Deadnight wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
The 40k list is probably the absolute cheapest 1850 list in existence. That and maybe straight Paladins.

Your example is bad and you should feel bad.

A 1000pts Guard list will easily push $500.

Keep reading I example Necrons too.

And my nids example proves what then?

One army is expensive out of 13

Incognito15 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
So your comparison in prices is only valid if you say it is?

So an expensive 40k army doesn't count?

Its pretty easy to make an argument about the cost of two games when you deliberately pick the cheapest options of one and the most expensive of another.

Where do I choose the cheapest and the most expensive. All I did was pick 2 lists and compared. Then added a second 40k because I knew the flames where coming.

You post a thread making a categorical statement that WMH is more expensive than 40k with basically no knowledge on the subject of the game (WMH), then stated that everyone was "smoking something" for not having realized this great truth before. And you didn't expect people to say anything?

This also ignores that for the price of one tournament 40k army, you get two WM/H armies.

You really can't post three lists and tell us how cheap it is. You've also ignored the cost of the rules, which is a minimum of 160.

Quality of rules, customer engagement; these things matter to me so if the price is a "push" the value isn't.

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:
And my nid swarm?

Your screwed. Nids just cost a buttload. Except most people that play Nids that I know buy every model and every FW model so usually they dont collect because of price.

So is warmachine cheaper?

I dont know. All I see from this is that there is almost know difference.

Then look harder.

Incognito15 wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

Incognito15 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
The 40k list is probably the absolute cheapest 1850 list in existence. That and maybe straight Paladins.

Your example is bad and you should feel bad.

A 1000pts Guard list will easily push $500.

Keep reading I example Necrons too.

And my nids example proves what then?

One army is expensive out of 13

Nids, Imperial Guard, and Orks are all exorbitantly expensive. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau (to a degree), and some Space Marine variants are all mid-tier. All of these are more expensive than the types of armies you chose (i.e. Necrons, Tyranid Monsterfest).

EDIT: also, 6 of the 13 options are just variations of Space Marines. 2 of the 13 are variations of Imperial Guard. 1 is an army of super heavies, of which 5 models necessary to make a ~1750 list costs $700.

 Blacksails wrote:
This also ignores that for the price of one tournament 40k army, you get two WM/H armies.

You really can't post three lists and tell us how cheap it is. You've also ignored the cost of the rules, which is a minimum of 160.

The 40k Rules are:

Rulebook $58.
Necron Book $33.
Harcover $50.

So at MOST 108.

Warmachine is:

Mk2 29.99
Rulebook 29.99

So 59.98

So a difference of $48.02.

Not that much.

 agnosto wrote:
You didn't add the more than $100 in rulebooks to the GW list while the WM books are free or $25 abouts if you want the fluff.

Invalid for his comparison. But, a valid point if you want to view it from a jumping into the game perspective. You could also factor in accessories, bags, dice, etc. However, I don't think that was the original intention.

 agnosto wrote:
Next, outside of a tournament, I never play 50pt games (others might).

Invalid. He's purely comparing 1850 point 40k tourney list to a 50 point warmahordes tourney list. So... I normally play 2000 point 40k games, and you normally play 30 point warmahordes. Irrelevant to his original topic.

 agnosto wrote:
Next, cheaper entry cost for WM and you can build over time.

Invalid. 40k also offers kill team which you can easily play with a single squad of models. Both games offer entry points and growth opportunities. Not pertinent to the original topic.

 agnosto wrote:
Rules are tighter, models not as nice in some cases but WM is more fun to me because I don't have to look through 20 supplements whenever I play someone and argue over poorly written rules.

Invalid. Subjective. Subjective, and Negatively Subjective. I can't remember the last 40k game I played where I got in a rules argument that wasn't settled in 10 seconds and at worst case with a die roll.

Incognito15 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
This also ignores that for the price of one tournament 40k army, you get two WM/H armies.

You really can't post three lists and tell us how cheap it is. You've also ignored the cost of the rules, which is a minimum of 160.

The 40k Rules are:

Rulebook $58.
Necron Book $33.
Harcover $50.

So at MOST 108.

Warmachine is:

Mk2 29.99
Rulebook 29.99

So 59.98

So a difference of $48.02.

Not that much.

You only need the Mk2 book for WMH.

I'm assuming you mean the new mini-rulebook to have the cost at $58 for the rules. That is fine, then I will say $108 for GW rules vs. $30 for WMH rules. That being said, if you're in a tournament mindset you best hope your army isn't benefited in *any* way by an ally, supplement, or data slate, because you're looking at an additional $20-$50 for those couple of pages of rules (you used tourneys as the example so I'm just going off of that).