Necron release rumours (prices and pics in first post)

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**CthuluIsSpy**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Kersplakastani wrote:
Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.

Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?

Yes. 12"

**docdoom77**

I'm really excited about the cheap Command Barge. I might order one now. I think you could have a pretty durable, CC specialist for under 200 pts.

**Hollismason**

If they keep the Power Axe rule for 28 points a model for models that are T5 3+ 5++ , and have a weapon that can shoot 12 ST5 AP. that's not terrible.

Lychguard are crazy good by the way .

Cryptek w/ Staff of Light
9 Lychgaurd
1 Ghost Ark

Around 400 points , but 27 ST7 AP 2 attacks (if Warscythes stay the same), Needs 6s to hit them when shooting at them because of the staff, then they get a 3 +, 4++ save because of the Cryptek and they're in a open top vehicle that has Gauss Arrays so they can shoot at stuff as well if needed and it has AV13.

Yeah, that's pretty damn good.

**Kersplakastani**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Kersplakastani wrote:
Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.

Are the Praetorians staff weapons buffed range wise do we know?

I believe they are now 12" range, not sure if they're still going to be assault 1. But I'd prolly still use the particle caster and void blades, since they're jump infantry they can get 4 hits in on the charge if they use them to charge, and can actually hit at initiative 10 with hammer of wrath. They're definitely worth their point cost now if all of this is true.

**HeavyMetalMan**

I still don't get why some people think scarabs will be awful with all the wraithknights and imperial knights running around. I'm sure spyders will still be 1-3 in a unit and have the same spawn rule pretty much. Entropic strike and gauss are the same now, glancing and auto-wounding on a 6. Most tanks only have 3-4 hullpoints at most and charging with at least 10 scarabs will wreck most tanks and gravely wound imp knights. Starting with 7-8 scarabs and then buffing the unit with spiders you can easily get a massive group quickly, and they should still be beasts. Although I did notice that he didn't list them as beasts which would be really bad if they weren't. Hmm, so yeah I guess they really wouldn't be worth it if they can't move 12 inchs.

I do concede that I will probably use the regular destroyers now since their biggest issue was survivability before.

Also with all the thunderwolf lists running around the doomsday ark will definitely help since it's s10 stationary now.

**Sigvatr**

z3n1st wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Oh god, after removing one iconic rule from Necrons (WBB / RP), GW also decided to remove the second iconic thing aka Regeneration Orbs. Warriors get another big nerf with 6+ RP vs. S8, so that's another hit for Silver Tide. The Monolith remains being bad and I already see Ghost Arks with LG hopping out of it being a viable strategy all of a sudden.

Monolith not getting its "Teleport to reroll WBB" ability back is just stupid, especially after the nerf to RP.

Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.

Better keep cover because according to you the sky is falling, lol

would love to see someone play a C'Tan Energizer bunny, with the gauss weapons all mounted with batteries, hilarious!

Oh, I'm sure rules-wise, Necrons come off as a good faction. They just lost pretty much every Necron-ish thing about them. No models standing back up, Regeneration Orbs completely disconnected from the fluff, Monolith still being in the back ranks and not doing what it's supposed to do fluff-wise...etc. Necrons will be a viable army and the overall changes sound really good. But they aren't Necrons anymore, they just became even more generic than before.

**Cryptek of Awesome**

Kersplakastani wrote:
Am I the only person who is happy that Praetorians are useful/worth their point cost now? I always thought they looked cool but they weren't a great choice in 5e. The 2 attacks and range boost were really nice.

For sure - I'll def. give them a try now. I just couldn't justify it for only one attack before.

**Anpu-adom**

skybax wrote:
I tired to predict what will be competitive with the codex, and came up with that:

Overall:
-Flyer spam is gone
-AV 13 Wall still works
-scarab farm dead
-infantry blobs significantly better (?)
-decurion good for spamming, but otherwise CAD is better because of Objective Secured.

HQ:
-Catacomb Command Barge for a close combat HQ (likely still worse than old Necron combat HQs because of the nerfs to defensive upgrades and MSS)
-Crypteks for supporting infantry blobs
-Zandrekh possibly good
-the rest: not really attractive

Troops:
-warriors in 20-strong footslogging blobs supported by Crypteks and possibly Ghost Arks (GAs don't change, right?)
-5-man warrior squads for saving the points, possibly in Scythes in a memento of the good old flying spam
-Gauss immortals in Scythes

Elites:
-Deathmarks against MCs
-Lychguards, maxed out in Ghost Arks, that is, if point costs are enough to overshadow the overall suckiness of close combat
-Praetorians, maxed out to be a pretty good marine-like unit
-the rest not competitive, with Flayed Ones getting pretty close to being competitive.

Fast Attack - the most crowded slot:
-Wraiths for close combat, as before they were good, and now they got better
-Tomb Blades, maybe one of the best bikes in the game now, probably with gauss or these sickly cheap particle beamers. Spammable.
-Night Scythes still doing well enough to take them as transports.
-Ghost arks good for Lychguards, Immortals, Warrior blobs.
-scarabs and destroyers not worth it

Heavy support:
-Annihilation barge still usable, but with the price increase probably less spammable
-Heavy destroyers for anti-armour spam unless you're going for 13 AV wall
-the rest not worth it

Do you think this makes sense?

While I don't agree with all of your points... this list is much longer than a similar list that would have been formed from our 5e codex.

I seriously think that we may have moved into a board control style army. CCB is an awesome counter-charge unit. Tombblades softening up units on the edges while Wraiths move in for the kill. 2-3 large blocks of warriors filling large areas of the board to deny position supported by Ghost Arks, Crypteks, and the like. Dream? Yeah, maybe...

**Jaceevoke**

Sigvatr wrote:
z3n1st wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Oh god, after removing one iconic rule from Necrons (WBB / RP), GW also decided to remove the second iconic thing aka Regeneration Orbs. Warriors get another big nerf with 6+ RP vs. S8, so that's another hit for Silver Tide. The Monolith remains being bad and I already see Ghost Arks with LG hopping out of it being a viable strategy all of a sudden.

Monolith not getting its "Teleport to reroll WBB" ability back is just stupid, especially after the nerf to RP.

Turns out the decision to let Codex: Necrons be written by someone who never had anything to do with Necrons before was a bad idea.

Better keep cover because according to you the sky is falling, lol

would love to see someone play a C'Tan Energizer bunny, with the gauss weapons all mounted with batteries, hilarious!

Oh, I'm sure rules-wise, Necrons come off as a good faction. They just lost pretty much every Necron-ish thing about them. No models standing back up, Regeneration Orbs completely disconnected from the fluff, Monolith still being in the back ranks and not doing what it's supposed to do fluff-wise...etc. Necrons will be a viable army and the overall changes sound really good. But they aren't Necrons anymore, they just became even more generic than before.

Exalted couldn't have said it any better.

**Desubot**

HeavyMetalMan wrote:
I still don't get why some people think scarabs will be awful with all the wraithknights and imperial knights running around.

Wraithknights yes
Imperial knights are fearless

**Hollismason**

Entropic Strike just causes on 6s causes glancing hits.

Also, Gauss actually got a buff in this codex. 6s to auto wound is pretty good.

**Desubot**

Hollismason wrote:
Entropic Strike just causes on 6s causes glancing hits.

Also, Gauss actually got a buff in this codex. 6s to auto wound is pretty good.

Lets not over state things.

Its a slight buff for Gauss and only in like 2-3 situations.

edit o wait is it the same for entropic strike? (wounds and glances on 6 or is the to wound one removing armor saves still)

**Hollismason**

Still a buff.

**skybax**

Anpu-adom wrote:

While I don't agree with all of your points... this list is much longer than a similar list that would have been formed from our 5e codex.

I've got no experience above playing 200 pts level and reading Dakka, mind you, but if Necrons indeed get more competitive options and less broken ones, it's a win.

**Hollismason**

Overall costs went down, Barge Lords decreased by 35 points, Annihilation Barges increased by 30 points.

So yeah, you can still have 2 Barge Lords and 3 Annihilation Barges in your army and it's going to pretty much come out to the same cost.

**changemod**

Basically, we have a lot of units that can hurt, even if only slightly, anything now. Massive potential tactical flexibility.

**Hollismason**

changemod wrote:
Basically, we have a lot of units that can hurt, even if only slightly, anything now. Massive potential tactical flexibility.

Never mind. Cannot read properly!!

**Desubot**

Hollismason wrote:
changemod wrote:
Basically, we have a lot of units that can hurt, even if only slightly, anything now. Massive potential tactical flexibility.

Please list the units that can't hurt anything now.

Grots vs wK

various bolters to most front armor.

Holli did you miss read it as "cant"

**Hollismason**

I totally did.

Something people are glossing over is the Tomb Blades.

Let's be clear here, they are 16 points per model, and can upgrade to ignore cover for apparently 2 pts a model to with Twin Linked 2 shot ST5 weapons. That's pretty great now. Add in that apparently they can get Steath for a 3+ Cover save Jinking and get basically a better FNP, that's pretty huge.

That's a pretty damn good unit.

**Sasori**

Kangodo wrote:
Redemption wrote:
EW only works against removing all the wounds, so you'd still take the RP roll on a 6+ before modifiers against a wound that inflicts ID. You also cannot take FNP against an ID wound, even if you have EW, for that matter.

That is my point.
With a S10AP1 weapon he would first need to wound me three times, then get through my 4++ invulnerable and then through three 6's.
It's to point out that the new RP is awesome with multiple wounds and in the new Codex we seem to have quite some units with multiple wounds.

I also think that people are looking too much at the ID-part.
How often are players shooting S8 at your Warriors and Immortals?
And how often do you think people will fire S10 at our T5-units (which we have quite a lot of)?

These are all valid points, which is why so far nearly everything has been a netbuff in my opinion.

The loss of a 2+ and 3++ made Overlords a lot more vulernable. THey gained 5+ FNP and a cheap IWND. Not the best trade there, but I can understand where this came from. Having a 2+/3++ OVerlord with the best Melee weapon in the game, a long with IWND and a 4+ FNP would be even worse than Smashfether.

**changemod**

Hollismason wrote:
changemod wrote:
Basically, we have a lot of units that can hurt, even if only slightly, anything now. Massive potential tactical flexibility.

Please list the units that can't hurt anything now thats a pretty serious claim.

Can, not can't.

But basically: Gauss at least forces a save on a six, same goes for Scarabs, and Scytheguard have a much more pumped up variant in that they have S7 Armourbane weapons and can leap out of an assault vehicle. An assault vehicle that has Gauss.

It goes on like that, really. Sure, having to roll a 6 then watch a 2+ plink it off might suck in some of these cases, but it applies to a lot of the army as a whole and thus means you can at least attempt to kill pretty much anything.

FMC is probably the only real issue. Flyers too, but not many fights are decided by flyers in my experience.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
changemod wrote:
Basically, we have a lot of units that can hurt, even if only slightly, anything now. Massive potential tactical flexibility.

Never mind. Cannot read properly!!

Ah, right, sorry then,

**Hollismason**

They can still get a 2+ save, from Nightmare shroud. They can also have a 4++ , 4++, 5++ It Will not Die.

That's even tougher than before.

Barge Lord w/ Night Mare Shroud, Resurrection Orb, Phylactery , Voidblade. = 245

2+ , 4++, 4++, 5+

Can also get Eternal Warrior or Zealot, Or reroll all hits in Challenges. Sure not invulnerable to STD, or ST10 weapons.

**Jaq Draco lives**

All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5

I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.

My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.

AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.

Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.

No news on Imotekh? I'd love him to be a bad ass.

**changemod**

Not sure if we've seen the entire wargear section there.

**Hollismason**

Yeah I don't think we have the Archeotech seems like it's for Crypteks.

**Sasori**

Hollismason wrote:
It was posted that Quantum Shielding is all around AV13 but goes away after first glance or penetrating hit.

That's all that's been posted on it, but if it's true it's pretty powerful.

He specifically said it goes away after the first Pen, not glance.

**Desubot**

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5

I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.

My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.

AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.

Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.

No news on Imotekh? I'd love him to be a bad ass.

1) Im pretty sure its nearlly the same (though i should go math it out later)

4) But you get 13 on side. a single pen to a vindicator will for the most part neuter it (with shaken results +)

cant wait to see what level of shenanigans imotekh gets.

**Hollismason**

The rumour on him was that Lighting Storm went away and got replaced with a generic blast.

Also, remember Mephrit Dynasty has some really cool wargear as well people.

**changemod**

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5

Nah, it means there's a sweet spot they go down quicker to.

Against small arms fire, they're tougher.

Against S8 and 9 weaponry. They're tougher.

The sweet spot that kills them faster? S7 AP3.

**Jaq Draco lives**

Desubot wrote:
Jaq Draco lives wrote:
All I've gotten from these current rumours is 4++ on wraiths means they are going to go down much faster despite T5

I need 200p of heavy destroyers, gives me the equivalent of devastator squad but much much better.

My overlord on CCB might look cheaper, but not if I want a 2+ save, and only a 4+ save makes him a fair bit worse and the points are about equivalent.

AB's got the points increase and the slight nerf to Tesla - they have to jink a lot now they suck. Lets put it another way, compare then to a vindicator which is always AV13 and is a large blast s10 ap1 large blast. Is the AB barge that good? Nah - doesn't even have a flipping AP value.

Definitely nothing too bad but where I struggled before I might struggle more.

No news on Imotekh? I'd love him to be a bad ass.

1) Im pretty sure its nearlly the same (though i should go math it out later)

4) But you get 13 on side. a single pen to a vindicator will for the most part neuter it (with shaken results +)

cant wait to see what level of shenanigans imotekh gets.

1. That might be one of those non intuitive math results, I'll wait for your post with interest. I do like the +3 initiative.

4. Its easy enough to be cautious with the vindicator. And you have the ability to seriously hurt anything. Barges can be all or nothing, good against light armour mainly but suck against most infantry with saves. It has lost a lot of the versatility in that I didn't mind so much that it had these faults because it was cheap and a distraction mostly, didn't matter if I jinked. I'll definitely still use them, but if I could swap them for vindicators I would.