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Mutter wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Arn't Riptides only WS2? If I remember correctly, fear will do almost nothing then, no?

Are Riptides even characters? If not, then MSS can't touch them either way.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I'm frankly surprised that there are this many Necron players who were still using MSS.

We had to stop Dante and 30 death company somehow.

But a unit like that isn't gonna be stopped by a single Overlord and his MSS, he'd make Dante punch himself in the face (maybe), then the other 30 guys tear him and his unit to pieces.

The only thing MSS could do reliably was prevent MCs from killing the unit carrying the MSS, and the only MCs that could get close enough are Wraithknights and Dreadknights. Of those, Wraithknights are super-easy to deal with, though Dreadknights are a worry, I grant you.

It was an essential insurance policy against pretty much everything. Assault is not dead. Its still one of the best ways of doing things in this game. As long as you're a 12 inch moving, 2+,3++ monster eternal warrior deathstar with nothing but str +8 attacks with prescience, forewarning, etc.

Mindshackle was awesome because it turned the cheesey beater against itself. The better you are, the more you're going to hurt yourself.

MSS at least gave your opponent pause before he charged his world destroying deathstar into your command. Now... well... I hope you've got your one use (I HATE THIS) veil of darkness ready. otherwise kiss your shiny metal ass good bye.

Combat deathstars haven't been a problem in my meta for a loooooooong time, they just aren't an efficient way of doing damage and capturing ground.

You know jacked-up says mutliple times the Necrons straight up do not use a standard FOC at all.

Will be interesting to see how that pans out.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I'm frankly surprised that there are this many Necron players who were still using MSS.

It was a great piece of gear on Phaerons, but yeah not effective most of the time. What I find amusing is the number of players who appear to be having an orgasm that they won't have to deal with it at all. It was pretty useless if you charged them with sufficient force to wipe them out.

I think the Res Orbs, if I'm reading them right, are going to be the anti-assault mechanic now. Assault based armies are going to try to do everything in their power to get the Necron player to blow those Orbs before assaults. Having that re-roll mitigate the damage on the turn the unit gets charged could take a lot of momentum out of the opponent.

I have to say while I personally HATE MSS, I can understand the need for something that can deal with my tooled up characters (kharn, crimson slaughter lord) as a overlord just cannot compete BUT and this is a huge but, it was easily avoided and situational, so possibly the new one might be a tad more useful?

 Formosa wrote:
I have to say while I personally HATE MSS, I can understand the need for something that can deal with my tooled up characters (kharn, crimson slaughter lord) as a overlord just cannot compete BUT and this is a huge but, it was easily avoided and situational, so possibly the new one might be a tad more useful?

Against what?

I personally love our new resurrection orbs, coming in at a 55pt discount from last book.

That and the the changes to lychguard, tomb blades, and Quantum Shielding changes...this is looking like a good book.

I'm scared.

I personally love our new resurrection orbs, coming in at a 55pt discount from last book.

You mean 5pt, right?

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I personally love our new resurrection orbs, coming in at a 55pt discount from last book.

That and the the changes to lychguard, tomb blades, and Quantum Shielding changes...this is looking like a good book.

I'm scared.

Mm. Everything sounds pretty good so far... It's worrying.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

I personally love our new resurrection orbs, coming in at a 55pt discount from last book.

You mean 5pt, right?

I think he's comparing it to an Overlord with a resorb.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

I personally love our new resurrection orbs, coming in at a 55pt discount from last book.

You mean 5pt, right?

No, 55pt. Since taking one on an Overlord would cost 120pts minimum, and now we get an identical benefit from Crypteks (without having to buy any wargear) for 65pts instead.

Sure, you could've taken a res orb on a normal Necron lord, but that's still exactly the same cost as a new-book Cryptek, and the new-book Cryptek has 2 wounds instead of 1.

Noticing the Chronometron only works in the shooting phase makes it of slightly more dubious value on Scytheguard in a Ghost Ark: The bigger worry is living through the assault phase to strike at I2.

Still, reanimation is basically a 4++ anyway. Oh, and if you make the unit 8 Guard plus a Cryptek "Apothecary" you can have a challenge soaking Lord or Overlord. Stick an Orb in your new massed S7 AP2 Armorbane Deathstar for one phase of largely ignoring wounds when you hit the enemy Deathstar.

Mechanics-wise the cryptek is the new resurrection orb.

The new resurrection orb still seems pretty potent for large units with a cryptek attached. A one shot re-rollable 4++ save for the whole unit for a whole turn is nothing to sneeze at. If its a warrior unit and you have a Ghost Ark nearby then you have a unit that will just not ever go down.



One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.

Wondering if the Destroyer Lord can equip the Phase Shifter.

Wondering also if the bargeLord can join units.

col_impact wrote:
One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.

You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.

The plastic necron super heavies are no longer lords of war... So are we going to see multiple tesseract vaults floating around the board????

Anyone else seen this?

Gauntlet of Conflagrator 30pts- Template, S7 AP2, Assault 1, One Use Only

Is this our new Abyssal Staff? I'm assuming we don't get to keep the old one, and even if we did, that the tactic of attaching it to a unit of Deathmarks would still work.

Still, this item achieves much of the same effect, aside from being more expensive and one-use only. It can be taken on models other than Crypteks and you don't need to specify which unit you're targeting to get 2+ to wound on it.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I'm frankly surprised that there are this many Necron players who were still using MSS.

What a stupid statement...

"Wow, Necron players ACTUALLY use an item that gives them a chance in CC?"

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.

You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.

Yeah, I had that the other way around.

A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.

 Screaming Echo wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I'm frankly surprised that there are this many Necron players who were still using MSS.

What a stupid statement...

"Wow, Necron players ACTUALLY use an item that gives them a chance in CC?"

Except it doesn't, at least in the vast majority of cases. Most of the time, the Overlord will deny one model from hitting him or his unit, then the rest of the enemy unit rolls over the Overlord because Necrons are not good in CC.

The only time MSS gave Necrons a chance was when a single MC charged the unit carrying the MSS, which was a pretty rare occurrence if the enemy player knew there was a MSS in the unit.

MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.

You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.

Yeah, I had that the other way around.

A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.

No vehicle character currently keeps IC or has any rules associated with it joining units, so I wouldn't count on it.

 Sigvatr wrote:
MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.

Clearly we have different experiences with Necrons and CC, because at least in my experience Necrons folded as soon as anything remotely CC-oriented turned their way, MSS or not.

col_impact wrote:

changemod wrote:

col_impact wrote:
One thing to remember about attaching Destroyer Lord to things. Not only does he grant PE, but he also grants fearless, which makes a LG unit he attaches to fearless and that is definitely potent. Still it would be nice now if there was some CC oriented jet pack unit he could attach to, to fully maximize his movement capabilities.

You have that upside down: It was the Wraiths who made the D Lord fearless, not the other way around.

Yeah, I had that the other way around.

A bargeLord joining a unit does grant fearless and relentless though. Wondering if the bargeLord can join units.

Can vehicles join units? -_-

Even, assuming, it got an exemption to allow it to join infantry units (and we have seen nothing that would indicate as such), how would it grant relentless without slow and purposeful? I guess if it rolls the warlord trait for it...

I disagree, they would still lose the fight.
It made sure that they had a 50% chance of losing a fight while doing a lot of damage in return and made sure that their Lord had a bigger chance of survival.

 Sigvatr wrote:
MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.

the bargeLord still seems pretty good provided he does not go against something that can ID him.

Also, there might be a C'tan build that can hold up against dreadknights, wraithknights, and the like.

Except it doesn't, at least in the vast majority of cases. Most of the time, the Overlord will deny one model from hitting him or his unit, then the rest of the enemy unit rolls over the Overlord because Necrons are not good in CC.

MSS was often on DLords attached to Wraith units. I'm not sure I'd consider that unit bad at CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
MSS effectively gave Necron players a 50% chance to not immediately lose a cc fight. Since MSS got removed, you're now back to only using dedicated cc units or removing cc altogether again.

Clearly we have different experiences with Necrons and CC, because at least in my experience Necrons folded as soon as anything remotely CC-oriented turned their way, MSS or not.

I've won many a combat against dedicated CC units with 20 Warriors and an Olord.

I've always wanted to take big warrior units like that, but they always seem to be shot off the board before anything charges them.