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xraytango wrote:

nudibranch wrote:
An interesting thing with the name of some of the new weapons - particularly the phosphor serpenta and the plasma caliver - is the fact that they share part of their names with the volkite guns from 30K, maybe showing some form of technological lineage from the 31st millennium.

Or perhaps the self-same technology, preserved and revered; taken from the armory only in times of most dire need. Other times there are hymns sung and scencers full of inscense burned in the holy alcoves where reliquaed munitions are ensconced.

These were more advanced weapons from more elegant times, before the apostasy, before the heresy, before the rebellion. When the Emperor delved into the things of science and technology, only the iron-man was to never be trusted, for machines with their own will was aenethema to the divinity which is man.

So BL is looking for writers I hear?

That... was really cool.

I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

The latest in a long line of fail. Justice Jogger, Stilt Runner, Stiltstalkers, Ironstrider ballistarius.

Eyjio wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
Surely you need to see all their special rules before figuring out how differently they'll play. Unless we've seen those?

Well, unless doctrina imperatives is some huge bonus (and it sounds like it might actually be a bad thing instead), we know enough to judge. And frankly, I don;t see how these guys beat S3 AP3 guns/special weapons with good orders and deep strike, which is what Scions give you for comparable points.

I'm actually very happy with these rules. They fit well into the 7th Ed codex balance, they should play different from existing codicies, and I think they fit in well with IoM forces. I'd be annoyed if they were better than scions or IG. Right now I see a solid 750 to 1k list in my head that can be supported well with MEQ or GEQ.

The aesthetics of the Walkers actually reflect the Knights quite well.

I can totally see a sea of troops with a few walkers and a knight being a pretty nice/uniform looking force.

Hollismason wrote:
So are those the only units in the codex?

Nope! We know there is at least the Dunecrawler (and likely it has a variant) meaning at minimum there are 2 more. I expect some at least 1 HQ model as well.

 Lockark wrote:
I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

4 attacks on the charge at Init 6 with 6s doing two additional wounds... oh and only S5 and higher attacks can hurt them?! These are excellent against infantry

Well, good against light to medium infantry without greandes

I'm just going to touch on this just in case it wasn't clarified in this post yet:

Ok, here we go. pg 47 of the rulebook: Locked in Combat

"If a unit has one or more models in base contact with an enemy model (for any reason), then it is locked in combat."

So, indeed, there is the 'enemy' tag there, which is important. So let's go back to look at it.

"Rad-saturation: While a unit is locked in combat with one or more models with this special rule, all models in that unit subtract 1 from their Toughness (to a minimum of 1)."

The reason it's confusing is that they write the rule as if it's your opponent reading it. So let's see if we can't clarify.

-While a unit (Vanguard's Enemy) is locked in combat (which can only happen with an enemy unit) with one or more models with this special rule (the Vanguard), all models in that unit (Vanguard's Enemy) subtract 1 from their Toughness.

That's how I read it. So, because an ALLY to the Vanguard is not locked in combat with THE VANGUARD because THE VANGUARD is not THE ENEMY, then the ALLY to the Vanguard DO NOT SUFFER -1 TOUGHNESS.

From a fluff point of view, every time I look at that walker I think Eldar Ranger and headshot.

Yeah, I know they'd probably have forcefields, but I doubt if the Eldar lose any sleep about Imperium technology.

The Imperium has been fighting the galaxy for 10,000 years, you'd think the effects of enemy snipers would have filtered back to Mars by now!

 Lobukia wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

4 attacks on the charge at Init 6 with 6s doing two additional wounds... oh and only S5 and higher attacks can hurt them?! These are excellent against infantry

Not haveing the AP to deal with +3sv let alone +2sv armour dose hurt them in regards to their CC abilities. Krak Gernades also come standard issue in many of the most popular armies in the game.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
From a fluff point of view, every time I look at that walker I think Eldar Ranger and headshot.

Yeah, I know they'd probably have forcefields, but I doubt if the Eldar lose any sleep about Imperium technology.

The Imperium has been fighting the galaxy for 10,000 years, you'd think the effects of enemy snipers would have filtered back to Mars by now!

Of course it isn't as though the Eldar walkers have an exposed cockpit either...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
From a fluff point of view, every time I look at that walker I think Eldar Ranger and headshot.

Yeah, I know they'd probably have forcefields, but I doubt if the Eldar lose any sleep about Imperium technology.

The Imperium has been fighting the galaxy for 10,000 years, you'd think the effects of enemy snipers would have filtered back to Mars by now!

Eldar walkers don't make any more sense than it does.



Imperial snipers sure appreciate being able to see the pilot through the glass, or going for the much more convenient open-side shot.

 Lobukia wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
So ... they have no transports at all for their troops?

Clearly all of the information for a brand new 40k faction has been relased

They can use any IoM transport. So even if they don't, not a problem

Rumors put a walker transport as their thing for this release IIRC.

That said, I don't expect the wider transport options to come up as an option until the full codex drops (like Scions and their limited transport options inside their own codex).

Does no one else see this when they look at the dragoons?

 Lockark wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

4 attacks on the charge at Init 6 with 6s doing two additional wounds... oh and only S5 and higher attacks can hurt them?! These are excellent against infantry

Not haveing the AP to deal with +3sv let alone +2sv armour dose hurt them in regards to their CC abilities. Krak Gernades also come standard issue in many of the most popular armies in the game.

eh not EVERYTHING needs AP 3. AP3 SHOULD be semi-uncommon outside of marines few armies pack that much armor, and space marines are supposed to be rare.

 Las wrote:
Does no one else see this when they look at the dragoons?

Spoiler:

Yes, that comparison was made earlier.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
So ... they have no transports at all for their troops?

Clearly all of the information for a brand new 40k faction has been relased

They can use any IoM transport. So even if they don't, not a problem

Rumors put a walker transport as their thing for this release IIRC.

That said, I don't expect the wider transport options to come up as an option until the full codex drops (like Scions and their limited transport options inside their own codex).

I had heard about the Skitarii, AdMech dichotomy before, but are there any rumors on the timeline of the release? Are we talking a month apart like TS and IG, or would it be way later?

It's a shame how much the cost of 40k has gone up in the past 10 years.

I'm honestly surprised they are adding a new faction and potentially pushing the timeline.

 Lockark wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

4 attacks on the charge at Init 6 with 6s doing two additional wounds... oh and only S5 and higher attacks can hurt them?! These are excellent against infantry

Not haveing the AP to deal with +3sv let alone +2sv armour dose hurt them in regards to their CC abilities. Krak Gernades also come standard issue in many of the most popular armies in the game.

Do the math on 6 of these charging a squad of 10 MEQs. Grenades and all. It ain't pretty for the MEQ.

Don't forget they have HoW.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
From a fluff point of view, every time I look at that walker I think Eldar Ranger and headshot.

Yeah, I know they'd probably have forcefields, but I doubt if the Eldar lose any sleep about Imperium technology.

The Imperium has been fighting the galaxy for 10,000 years, you'd think the effects of enemy snipers would have filtered back to Mars by now!

The way I see it, that machine is nothing more than an expendable beast of burden. A horse. One from a universe where human slaves and cybernetics are cheaper and more abundant than actual horses.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
From a fluff point of view, every time I look at that walker I think Eldar Ranger and headshot.

Yeah, I know they'd probably have forcefields, but I doubt if the Eldar lose any sleep about Imperium technology.

The Imperium has been fighting the galaxy for 10,000 years, you'd think the effects of enemy snipers would have filtered back to Mars by now!

Eldar walkers don't make any more sense than it does.



Imperial snipers sure appreciate being able to see the pilot through the glass, or going for the much more convenient open-side shot.

Except according to the fluff, that thing is actually protected by a force field.

Oryza Sativa wrote:

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
From a fluff point of view, every time I look at that walker I think Eldar Ranger and headshot.

Yeah, I know they'd probably have forcefields, but I doubt if the Eldar lose any sleep about Imperium technology.

The Imperium has been fighting the galaxy for 10,000 years, you'd think the effects of enemy snipers would have filtered back to Mars by now!

Eldar walkers don't make any more sense than it does.



Imperial snipers sure appreciate being able to see the pilot through the glass, or going for the much more convenient open-side shot.

Except according to the fluff, that thing is actually protected by a force field.

As are the AdMech ones. That's sort of the point; the models may look as wacky and impractical as can be, all GW have to do to justify it is say something like "force filed" and suddenly it makes sense.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
So ... they have no transports at all for their troops?

Clearly all of the information for a brand new 40k faction has been relased

They can use any IoM transport. So even if they don't, not a problem

Rumors put a walker transport as their thing for this release IIRC.

That said, I don't expect the wider transport options to come up as an option until the full codex drops (like Scions and their limited transport options inside their own codex).

I had heard about the Skitarii, AdMech dichotomy before, but are there any rumors on the timeline of the release? Are we talking a month apart like TS and IG, or would it be way later?

No idea. The only thing I remember reading was "later".

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
So ... they have no transports at all for their troops?

Clearly all of the information for a brand new 40k faction has been relased

They can use any IoM transport. So even if they don't, not a problem

Rumors put a walker transport as their thing for this release IIRC.

That said, I don't expect the wider transport options to come up as an option until the full codex drops (like Scions and their limited transport options inside their own codex).

I had heard about the Skitarii, AdMech dichotomy before, but are there any rumors on the timeline of the release? Are we talking a month apart like TS and IG, or would it be way later?

we don't even know if it's the case. thing is the military forces of the admech that aren't Skitarii are basicly the titan legions IIRC. and as awesome as it is I can't see GW giving us "Codex: Legio Titanicus" *would LOVE to be wrong*

Dragoons on 10 Meq
HoW Kills 1
5 more die from attacks
Remaining 4 need Krak gernades
2 hit, 1 might wound

So then its 4 on 6
the remaining 4 MEQ attack, maybe another wounds and drop one of 6 (that's 45 points lost)
The last 5 attack, killing 3

Last round, the last MEQ should do nothing (I've rounded up twice for the MEQ already and then dies).

I think you get the point... MEQ should still fear these

BrianDavion wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

4 attacks on the charge at Init 6 with 6s doing two additional wounds... oh and only S5 and higher attacks can hurt them?! These are excellent against infantry

Not haveing the AP to deal with +3sv let alone +2sv armour dose hurt them in regards to their CC abilities. Krak Gernades also come standard issue in many of the most popular armies in the game.

eh not EVERYTHING needs AP 3. AP3 SHOULD be semi-uncommon outside of marines few armies pack that much armor, and space marines are supposed to be rare.

Realy? Because the Table Top says other wise lol.

 Lobukia wrote:
Dragoons on 10 Meq
HoW Kills 1
5 more die from attacks
Remaining 4 need Krak gernades
2 hit, 1 might wound

So then its 4 on 6
the remaining 4 MEQ attack, maybe another wounds and drop one of 6 (that's 45 points lost)
The last 5 attack, killing 3, maybe 4

I think you get the point... MEQ should still fear these

No Power Fist?

Eyjio wrote:
So, shall we realistically look at these rules?

...


Here's my issue - what do they bring to the table? Their shooting is nothing special, they lack transportation, and their options are way too expensive for what you get, with the possible exception of arc rifles. Even if you wanted to ally them in, what do they bring you over Scions? Or heck, AM? What's the draw which gives them a niche? I dunno, footslogging T3 guys don't impress me, and I can't see a good reason to take things which don't get melta, only get bad plasma and still cost a ton. I dunno, I'm hoping that there's still something to show because apart from the models, I'm not impressed.

Your analysis appears to be methodical and logical, but you aren't exactly comparing apples with apples here...

First, all four units we have seen stats for are BS 4 base. This means every ranged weapon is better in their hands than in those a Guardsman. Granted, it is the same as Scions, though.

Second, the Skitarii infantry automatically are Relentless and have FNP(6+). This means they will play quite a bit differently than even MT Scions.

Finally, we don't even know what army-wide rules they may have, including the possibility of Orders-like systems or other buffs that come from HQs, etc.

I understand the urge to be the first to issue a definitive ruling on the competitiveness of this newest faction. I'm just not sure you're doing yourself (or the rest of the class) much of a favor by making up your mind off a handful of leaked pages.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hive City Dweller wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
So ... they have no transports at all for their troops?

Clearly all of the information for a brand new 40k faction has been relased

They can use any IoM transport. So even if they don't, not a problem

Rumors put a walker transport as their thing for this release IIRC.

That said, I don't expect the wider transport options to come up as an option until the full codex drops (like Scions and their limited transport options inside their own codex).

I had heard about the Skitarii, AdMech dichotomy before, but are there any rumors on the timeline of the release? Are we talking a month apart like TS and IG, or would it be way later?

No idea. The only thing I remember reading was "later".

From the rumors I've seen it full AdMech dex will be released late April/early May. (So ~1 month gap like the Scions/Guard)

 Lockark wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I love the new walkers. The AP- on the melee walkers makes then realy weak agiest infantry and MC's. But my goodness they will WREAK other walkers and tanks.

4 attacks on the charge at Init 6 with 6s doing two additional wounds... oh and only S5 and higher attacks can hurt them?! These are excellent against infantry

Not haveing the AP to deal with +3sv let alone +2sv armour dose hurt them in regards to their CC abilities. Krak Gernades also come standard issue in many of the most popular armies in the game.

eh not EVERYTHING needs AP 3. AP3 SHOULD be semi-uncommon outside of marines few armies pack that much armor, and space marines are supposed to be rare.

Realy? Because the Table Top says other wise lol.

yeah except I've been noting the differance between the "table meta" and the "universe meta" for some time now