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Jaq Draco lives wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah I was suggesting it because he seems to have a problem with Dreadknights so it's a good thing to have.

I think the Lychguard are great, but the fact is if you teleport them into your opponents field, unless you get right up on them. You're opponent is just going to run away. They only have a 6" move. Meanwhile Wraiths can actually chase down stuff with their 12" move which is Huge. People think that you are hampered by that 6" move but you're really not if you have Wraiths with you.

Well if you attach 2 ICs to them then yeah you're kinda hampered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
who isnt regularly facing a 2+ mob regularly you must have a forgiving meta

What kind of mob couldn't Orikan and Obyron chew through? Once he goes Empowered, he has 4 attacks at WS5 S7 rerolling all hits, and Obyron is Obyron. Even a Dreadknight would pucker up at that. It doesn't matter how much damage the Lychguard do when you put out 7 AP2 attacks per turn alongside them.

Literally just fought a game where that random empowerment which did not come off and can't possibly be relied upon until late in the game and my entire army was entirely neutered already.

You played this game before??? Relying on random empoerment is as good as saying just roll your saves dude....well done really

Even without Empowered, he's still WS4 S4 rerolling all hits at AP2, which is good against anything that's not a MC. And even then is still fine against them.

Hollismason wrote:
The point of Orikan isn't to rely on his CC ability, the point of Orikan is he gives the unit a reroll 1s and +1 RP. The empowerment is just bonus.

This is "Bomb" army I've been using at 2k


Orikan
Obyron

Elites
19 Flayed Ones

Troops
5 Necron Immortals w/ Nightscythe
5 Necron Immortals w/ Nightscythe

Fast Attack
5 Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vane , Nebuloscopes
5 Tomb Blades w/ Shield Vane , Nebuloscopes
H. Support

Canoptek Harvest
6 Wraiths w/ Transdimensional Beamers
3 Scarabs
1 Spyder

Conclave of the Burning One
Cryptek w/ Chrono Metron , Veil of Darkness
Cryptek w/ SS , God Shackles
Nightbringer

It works pretty well, Sometimes I go less Tomb Blades, or Flayed Ones for lower points. I've never not gotten First Blood with this army.

Nice list. Orikan with the wraiths and oby with the FOs?

Nice list. Orikan with the wraiths and oby with the FOs?

I think he generally sticks both with the Wraiths.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well done demonstration adamsouza.

Yeah Obyron and Orikan go with the Wraiths. Turn 1 Teleport forward along with the Conclave. I usually put them to either side.

I am in love with that list, Hollismason. It looks VERY fun to field and I may take inspiration from it for my game tonight. If you don't mind of course, I'll have to drip the scythes for 1850, but everything else looks pretty gravy. Have you had any trouble on the conclave and the teks not having PS's? I'd be nervous it would get focus fired to death, but I guess it's still pretty durable with the 4+++. I've been putting my dlord in my FOs as well as a cryptek so they have solar staff, 4+++, res orb, and can tank wounds. I haven't even come close to losing that unit yet. It's my mini flayed star. Was wondering how that would compare with your take on putting the HQ's with wraiths instead.

I'm going to try out the Nightbringer on Monday, against a Daemon player. Seems decent enough, Daemons can't THAT much high strength firepower, and if he comes to me the 'bringer should hold up nicely against Princes and Greater Daemons.

Quick question though: Can the Gaze of Death be used against a swooping Prince?

Okapi wrote:
I'm going to try out the Nightbringer on Monday, against a Daemon player. Seems decent enough, Daemons can't THAT much high strength firepower, and if he comes to me the 'bringer should hold up nicely against Princes and Greater Daemons.

Quick question though: Can the Gaze of Death be used against a swooping Prince?

First game with the new codex I tabled my friends Khorne and Tzeentch Daemons. And the Nightbringer went up against a Precogged and Grimoired Lord of Change and still won.

 Kevcron wrote:
I am in love with that list, Hollismason. It looks VERY fun to field and I may take inspiration from it for my game tonight. If you don't mind of course, I'll have to drip the scythes for 1850, but everything else looks pretty gravy. Have you had any trouble on the conclave and the teks not having PS's? I'd be nervous it would get focus fired to death, but I guess it's still pretty durable with the 4+++. I've been putting my dlord in my FOs as well as a cryptek so they have solar staff, 4+++, res orb, and can tank wounds. I haven't even come close to losing that unit yet. It's my mini flayed star. Was wondering how that would compare with your take on putting the HQ's with wraiths instead.

Crypteks don't have Res Orb. Against AP4 and higher the unit has a 4+ , 4++ . Against AP3 and Lower vs. Shooting it has a 5++ , 4++.

The Toughness of 8 goes a long way. Also , Solar Staff makes it very nearly impossible to kill with shooting when it deep strikes on turn 1 , as you basically tell your opponent to piss off with shooting you're going to have to charge it.

How my order goes..

I give RP to the Wraiths , then they teleport near something usually 8" away to avoid getting Mishapped. Really try avoid that. I then where ever i place them usually put the Conclave on the other side. I put the Flayed Ones front and center usually in the middle of the board or in the biggest cover piece on the table near my opponent and closer to the Conclave because no one wants to get counter charged by 19 Flayed Ones who will in fact demolish almost all non AV CC squads, because it's to many attacks. 19 Flayed ones have 95 attacks on the charge with reroll wounds. They'll kill most any dedicated CC unit in the game because it's to many wounds.


For 1850, I usually go with a smaller squad of Wraiths 5, then a smaller squad of Flayed Ones. I like to have at least 2 flyers so it's a sacrifice you have to make.

If I play against a Null Deployment or Drop Pod army. I always take the objectives with the 3 units.

Something to point out is that the Conclave has 6 ST5 Shots and the C'Tan powers plus the Nightbringers ability. I usually target Tanks or Independent Characters on their lonesome with the C'Tan because he's got a 1 out 6 chance to shoot them with a Destroyer weapon.

For 1850, I recommend just reducing the Flayed Ones and 1 Wraith. The Flayed Ones are really crucial as counter charge unit on the Conclave.

Painting is going slow and steady. Hopefully the FAQ about the spiders drops before I finish my flayed ones, wraiths, and first unit of tomb blades.

Anyhow here are my 2 initial 1,500 point lists.

Multi spiders no go 1,500 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields, particle
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones

Multi spiders go go 1,499 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields, gauss
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones

Comments about the legality of the 2nd list can go to this YMDC thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634025.page#7559305

 schadenfreude wrote:
Painting is going slow and steady. Hopefully the FAQ about the spiders drops before I finish my flayed ones, wraiths, and first unit of tomb blades.

Anyhow here are my 2 initial 1,500 point lists.

Multi spiders no go 1,500 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields, particle
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones

Multi spiders go go 1,499 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields, gauss
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones

Comments about the legality of the 2nd list can go to this YMDC thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634025.page#7559305

I'm assuming that the first list is a Decurion at 1500? I see no reason not to take the Decurion with either of these lists. I'm not a huge fan of 5 man Flayed one Squads because their not fearless. I think you could go with a full squad of 10, with the Decurion I'd go 5 man.

If you want to go for a three-spyders-is-valid-interpretation scarab farm, I'd go all in and make it the theme of the list. Something like:

HQ:

Cryptek, no equipment.

Troops:

Five Immortals,

Five Immortals.

Fast Attack:

Six Wraiths, five with Whip Coils.

Heavy Support:

Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers,

Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers,

Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers,

Formations:

Canoptek Harvest:

Six Wraiths with Transdimensional Beamers,

Eight Scarab Swarms,

Three Spyders with Twin Linked Particle Beamers, one with a Gloom Prism.

Doombringer Flight:

Doom Scythe,

Doom Scythe.

Total: 2000 points.

Or something to that effect.

Basically make it so you have a 20 Scarab swarm turn one, keep growing it as your opponent tries to work out how to deal with that before it does a disordered charge on half of his entire army at once.

Mop up stragglers with the wraiths and monstrous creature swarm, flyers and heavy vehicles with the air support and hold objectives with the low target priority minimum troops.

Honestly with Adepticon ruling that you can have 1 Detachment 1 special Detachment that are all unique, I'll be really surprised if someone doesn't do a hellacious Scarab Farm.

Knights will eat scarab farms sadly

Hollismason wrote:
Honestly with Adepticon ruling that you can have 1 Detachment 1 special Detachment that are all unique, I'll be really surprised if someone doesn't do a hellacious Scarab Farm.

For the Championship you can actually have as many Detachments as you want, they're just each unique.

I think I might do a Decurion, actually.... there's just a lot of very durable units on the table. I don't particularly like losing ObSec, but I think it's fine overall since everything (including my Destroyer Cult, which I'm really leaning on) will be much more difficult to whittle down.

Oh yeah what are you going to end up taking? We know the Flyrant's are gonna be in demand as well as the whole Lictor Shame and the whole Scout thing, as that's how things go sometimes.

I'd highly recommend taking Tomb Blades.

Hollismason wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Painting is going slow and steady. Hopefully the FAQ about the spiders drops before I finish my flayed ones, wraiths, and first unit of tomb blades.

Anyhow here are my 2 initial 1,500 point lists.

Multi spiders no go 1,500 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
3 tomb blades with scopes, shields, particle
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 1 spyder 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones

Multi spiders go go 1,499 points
Overlord in a CCB with scythe and phylactary
5 immortals
10 warriors
10 warriors
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields gauss
4 tomb blades with scopes, shields, gauss
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
Canoptek harvest 3 spyders 3 wraiths with coils 3 scarabs
5 flayed ones
5 flayed ones

Comments about the legality of the 2nd list can go to this YMDC thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/634025.page#7559305

I'm assuming that the first list is a Decurion at 1500? I see no reason not to take the Decurion with either of these lists. I'm not a huge fan of 5 man Flayed one Squads because their not fearless. I think you could go with a full squad of 10, with the Decurion I'd go 5 man.

Yes both are decurion.

A lack of fearless actually hurts larger squads more. A leadership 6 test from being hammered by 4 wounds in cc is pretty meaningless to a 5 man squad because there is only 1 surviving FO left while a 15 man squad would have 11 FO at risk of being run down. The smaller squads are actually less vulnerable to cc beasts like a chapter master on a bike or wraith knight, the damage is limited to a 65 point unit.

That's a good point but in a VP situation they give up points, I think both are valid uses, I just prefer larger squads.

Worth pointing out that if you're going to invest any sort of points into a large squad of FO, you're probably going to find a way to make them fearless for that exact reason.

It's not bad to have smaller squads - they will probably just have to deep strike more often than infiltrate due to first blood concerns.

Difficult to do honestly, there's Zandrekh which can give them fearless, unfortunately he also cannot join them during deployment.

Hollismason wrote:
Oh yeah what are you going to end up taking? We know the Flyrant's are gonna be in demand as well as the whole Lictor Shame and the whole Scout thing, as that's how things go sometimes.

I'd highly recommend taking Tomb Blades.

Not sure yet. Logic tells me that having flyers is going to be valuable to deal with Flyrants and get some board control, but I kinda want to bring a foot list with lots of dudes instead. Still sticking to the Conclave and Cult for now.

Whats the point in taking the canoptek harvest if you are going to teleport, they aren't one unit and so will not go with them.

It's for the Relentless and Move through Cover Special Rules, also you get to give the Reanimation Protocols for one turn. The buff the Spyder gives them for one turn is worth it plus you get a Scarab squad of 5 ( Poopin out 2 scarab bases from the Spyder).

Otherwise the unit doesn't have Relentless and cannot move and shoot Transdimensional Beamers.

Hollismason wrote:
It's for the Relentless and Move through Cover Special Rules, also you get to give the Reanimation Protocols for one turn. The buff the Spyder gives them for one turn is worth it plus you get a Scarab squad of 5 ( Poopin out 2 scarab bases from the Spyder).

Otherwise the unit doesn't have Relentless and cannot move and shoot Transdimensional Beamers.

Move Through Cover is useless on everything in the formation, Relentless is only useful if you want the Beamers.

Actually it's not for their benefit it's for the other models in the unit as well.

A reanimating Spyder is also a cheap and durable bodyguard for your Warriors, and you could always kit it out with a gloom prism and a particle beamer as well, to provide a bit of psychic defence and contribute in the shooting phase.

I see OK thanks guys. Just its a bit expensive and if you are throwing out a CTan Exterminatus Deathstar and a Wraithstar, I think its entirely possible you might want to trim the points for the sake of a some ancillary benefits.

I'm not a competitive player but I play with a good group so I' really trying to get it if you know what I mean so forgive my pedantism.

Personally I'm curious as to who wrote this codex. I know he has left, but a lot of the rules have a hint of Mat Ward to them.
Back on topic, how are people using Warscythe Lychguard? I appreciate that sword and board is far more resilient, but something about the warscythe makes me very happy (the fact that its a non unwieldy chainfist probably)

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
Personally I'm curious as to who wrote this codex. I know he has left, but a lot of the rules have a hint of Mat Ward to them.
Back on topic, how are people using Warscythe Lychguard? I appreciate that sword and board is far more resilient, but something about the warscythe makes me very happy (the fact that its a non unwieldy chainfist probably)

How is this tactics related?

Well I mean he does want to know how to use Lychguard.

I've used mine both ways, Sword and Board and Scythes.

For the Scythes, honestly I try and get as many Reanimation Orbs in there as possible then teleport in through use of Nightscythe.

It's a fun unit but I don't feel it's very strong. Now Orikan + Lychguard is a different story.

Orikan and Sword an Board Lychguard are just not going to get killed anytime soon.

For reference

The Math on Sword and Boards is insane.

3+ , Reroll 1s, then 4+ is a great than 90% avoidance on wounds I believe.

The Calculation should be

4/6 x 1/6 x 3/6

Scythe Lychguard should definitely be in a Night Scythe, max size, with a Chronometron Cryptek, maybe with Solar Staff. Drop them an inch from the enemy, even something that moves 12" away will be within good charge range afterwards.

Of course, then you have to deal with reserves and Interceptor and stuff.