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Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 whembly wrote:

So most of them are "Republicans" means that their opinions don't matter?


Talk about non sequitur.

This "either you agree with me or the terrorists win" line of thinking that's been all over this forum is also a pile of bunk


And another one. Given how much this country likes to play tough, it's shocking how little of a spine it has. Hypothetical potential future attacks are enough to make us cower in a corner and subject ourselves to illogical ramblings.

The possibility of radicals infiltrating the refugee population is serious enough to be a concern to any country taking them in.


I demand evidence of this proposition (namely, that picking out refugees for special scrutiny compared to any other immigrating population is warranted). Given that we've seen attacks conducted by nationals, both in the US and in Europe, by immigrants, both in the US and in Europe, and none thus far from refugees, why is everyone buying into this nonsense? They pose a threat? So do cars on Monday nights in Football seasons, unenforced gun control laws, and nuclear reactors. "It's a risk" is a pretty gakky argument. Everything is a risk. Hypothetical what if scenarios seem insufficient to prove something is deserving of special risk consideration, especially when the exact same risk already exists elsewhere (in immigration). This is the exact same bs argument that went on with that whole voter fraud bit a couple years ago. A demand to prevent a potential problem that does not apparently exist or warrant our attention. We already allow thousands of immigrants into most of our countries yearly, and the exact same risk exists with them as with refugees. In fact, if we want to talk evidence, thus far the risk is even higher. But we're obviously not going to place a ban on Muslims. People complain about threads being Godwinned, maybe we shouldn't make it so damn easy?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/20 21:40:28


   
Made in us
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 LordofHats wrote:
 whembly wrote:

So most of them are "Republicans" means that their opinions don't matter?


Talk about non sequitur.

Hey *you* brought up the fact that these states are mostly republicans and of course, they'd band together.

This "either you agree with me or the terrorists win" line of thinking that's been all over this forum is also a pile of bunk


And another one. Given how much this country likes to play tough, it's shocking how little of a spine it has. Hypothetical potential future attacks are enough to make us cower in a corner and subject ourselves to illogical ramblings.

Sounds like the standard 2nd amendment debate...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 whembly wrote:

Hey *you* brought up the fact that these states are mostly republicans and of course, they'd band together.


And you're still going to miss the point? You know, it reaches a point where people have to wonder if you're just doing it on purpose Whem.

Sounds like the standard 2nd amendment debate...


Indeed, which just makes the entire argument more hilarious given where it's coming from.

   
Made in gb
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Bristol

 LordofHats wrote:


Sounds like the standard 2nd amendment debate...


Indeed, which just makes the entire argument more hilarious given where it's coming from.


Remember, it is perfectly okay to remove rights from other people as long as you rig it so you are never at risk of the same happening to you.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
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So does paranoia rule the republican field (and their constituents, I would guess considering they are try to get vote so) right now? Seems weird considering how tough they talk.

Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
Well, it looks like the right wing has found a bit of hypocrisy in President Obama's twitter statement, "Slamming the door in the face of refugees would betray our deepest values. That's not who we are. And it's not what we're going to do."

According to the articles below, in 2011 Iraqi refugees had the metaphoric door slammed in their faces while the State Department took six months to reassess their procedures and security screening after two people were taken into custody on terrorism related charges.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/terrorists-refugee-program-settle-us/story?id=35252500

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/18/the-obama-administration-stopped-processing-iraq-refugee-requests-for-6-months-in-2011/

http://archive.navytimes.com/article/20120206/NEWS/202060315/Terror-threat-slows-Iraqi-refugee-flow-U-S-

So much for our "deepest values". I still would like to know what is wrong or damaging to our values that Congress wants careful screening of Syrian refugees today, especially given what we know about ISIS?



You do realize that the screening process as it currently is is pretty strict right now, partially because of that revision? So he already did (or the state dept. did) the very thing that you are applauding the hyper hysteria crowd wants in less hysterical times. Sounds like he did good to me. Thanks, Obama.


There is an issue with your answer.

It worked for Iraqis because during the course of the war there we built a VERY extensive biometric database on Iraqis. And what happened is we caught an Iraqi refugee wha had been admitted into the states who also had left fingerprints on an IED that killed US troops. So... The process changed to include a better/more thorough check which included ensuring all the biometric data was updated and the screeners had access to that data.

We don't have access to that type or quantity of data for the Syrian refugees. We will compare them to biometric holdings, but most Syrian bad guys we are worried about will not be in our database.

So, yes, the process improved, but no, all those improvements do not necessarily apply to this group.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/20 23:15:35


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 CptJake wrote:
We don't have access to that type or quantity of data for the Syrian refugees. We will compare them to biometric holdings, but most Syrian bad guys we are worried about will not be in our database.

Do you actually know that or are you just parroting what you heard?

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
We don't have access to that type or quantity of data for the Syrian refugees. We will compare them to biometric holdings, but most Syrian bad guys we are worried about will not be in our database.

Do you actually know that or are you just parroting what you heard?


I know that. The data collected in Iraq was done by our guys on patrols and collected over a period of years using BATS/HIDE (and a couple other systems).

http://www.army.mil/article/32609/BATS_helps_ID_insurgents__hostages/

http://biometrics.nist.gov/cs_links/standard/archived/workshops/xmlandmobileid/Presentations-docs/Vermury-BAT-HIIDE.pdf

We cataloged neighborhoods/villages/towns/regions and so on. It let you track people moving (get a hit on a guy who was collected in a different province and it can be an indicator...)

We have not done (had a chance to do) anything near that in Syria. It requires LOTS of boots on the ground over a period of time. We'll collect biometrics on them as they process through, but that is not as helpful when your doing this as part of a screening process as there is nothing to screen the new data against.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/21 02:07:02


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
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North Carolina

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
We don't have access to that type or quantity of data for the Syrian refugees. We will compare them to biometric holdings, but most Syrian bad guys we are worried about will not be in our database.

Do you actually know that or are you just parroting what you heard?


Assistant Director of the FBI Michael Steinbach testified before Congress that we don't have much of a database to check Syrian refugees against. That's been coorobated by DHS testimony as well.

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So what would our biometric database tell us about a bunch of hypothetical Iraqis if they needed to seek refuge in our country exactly? What percentage of them were measured? Would it give you any more comfort to know that we in some way measured them at one point? Im curious to know what sort of measuring device would allow you to sleep comfortably at night with an influx of refugees.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 CptJake wrote:
We don't have access to that type or quantity of data for the Syrian refugees. We will compare them to biometric holdings, but most Syrian bad guys we are worried about will not be in our database.

Do you actually know that or are you just parroting what you heard?


Assistant Director of the FBI Michael Steinbach testified before Congress that we don't have much of a database to check Syrian refugees against. That's been coorobated by DHS testimony as well.
do we, or have we ever had much of a database on a foreign county's population to know whether or not they want to kill other people in refugees of the past?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/21 02:28:29


Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
So what would our biometric database tell us about a bunch of hypothetical Iraqis if they needed to seek refuge in our country exactly? What percentage of them were measured? Would it give you any more comfort to know that we in some way measured them at one point? Im curious to know what sort of measuring device would allow you to sleep comfortably at night with an influx of refugees.


They could tell you many things.

- Does their current ID match the ID that we have on file for them or are they using a different name?
- Have they been detained before?
- Are they in any criminal databases?
- Are the same fingerprints found on IEDs?

Do I think that a lack of a comprehensive biometric database for Syrians means that we cannot have meaningful screening of Syrian refugees? Nope.
But I also don't think that biometric databases are useless and that if we have that information we should certainly use it.
   
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

With Iraqis it potentially tells you a lot.

You interview Refugee A. He says he is from town B and was a baker. You collect his bios and send them up. A hit comes back from a guy with a different name in town C (or even in town B). You now know to focus hard on him to work out the discrepancies. Or you get a hit where his bios were collected after an attack on coalition forces from one of the perps. Or you get hit that matches exactly what he told you. Or you DON'T get a match at all but you know your guys collected in Town B when this guy allegedly lived there.

And we collected a lot of samples in Iraq, actual percentages/numbers are going to be difficult to get open source, but the PDF I linked to above mentions 500+k and that was in 2007 before we really ramped up the collection efforts.


But as I've mentioned, the reality is this screening at best filters out actual DaIsh members. It does nothing to stop the influx of a population that will be targeted and susceptible to future radicalization (as in the Tsarnaevs). And that is the real threat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/21 02:36:01


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
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USA

 CptJake wrote:
But as I've mentioned, the reality is this screening at best filters out actual DaIsh members. It does nothing to stop the influx of a population that will be targeted and susceptible to future radicalization (as in the Tsarnaevs). And that is the real threat.


Good to know we will now be passing judgement on people for things they might do (We think. Maybe. Could happen. Might not. W/E they'll probably just throw up tacky curtains and wear too much cologne anyway).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/21 02:40:34


   
Made in us
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This Is Where the Fish Lives

CptJake wrote:I know that. The data collected in Iraq was done by our guys on patrols and collected over a period of years using BATS/HIDE (and a couple other systems).

http://www.army.mil/article/32609/BATS_helps_ID_insurgents__hostages/

http://biometrics.nist.gov/cs_links/standard/archived/workshops/xmlandmobileid/Presentations-docs/Vermury-BAT-HIIDE.pdf

We cataloged neighborhoods/villages/towns/regions and so on. It let you track people moving (get a hit on a guy who was collected in a different province and it can be an indicator...)

We have not done (had a chance to do) anything near that in Syria. It requires LOTS of boots on the ground over a period of time. We'll collect biometrics on them as they process through, but that is not as helpful when your doing this as part of a screening process as there is nothing to screen the new data against.
Is there any evidence that those handful of refugees that are chosen for processing by the United States are let in without proper vetting?

Prestor Jon wrote:Assistant Director of the FBI Michael Steinbach testified before Congress that we don't have much of a database to check Syrian refugees against. That's been coorobated by DHS testimony as well.
I'm aware of the Steinbach's testimony from earlier this year, but others, such as Francis Taylor, the DHS under secretary for intelligence and analysis, said in that same hearing that the screening is adequate and has the full power of the US intelligence community behind it.


Of course, there's this:
Cruz: Obama's Radical Ideology Puts Americans in Danger

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) told Sean Hannity that President Obama is endangering the lives of Americans by allowing thousands of Syrian refugees to enter the country.

"This president is so driven by radical ideology, by political correctness," Cruz said. "The president insists we have to endanger the safety and security of our nation."

The Republican presidential contender pointed out that Obama attacked him during recent speeches in Turkey and Manila.

"Obama, instead of defending this nation, just attacks you and me and every American who wants to keep this nation safe," Cruz said.

He noted that Sen. Pat Leahy echoed President Obama’s attacks on the Senate floor, calling Cruz's opposition to accepting refugees "anti-American."

"He said, gosh, his ancestors were Irish and Italian and we didn’t block him. And I responded to Pat Leahy and I said, 'You know what, on my mother’s side, my ancestors were Irish and Italian. The difference was, they weren’t coming here to blow up and murder civilians.'"

Is this not the same guy who said this:



 CptJake wrote:
But as I've mentioned, the reality is this screening at best filters out actual DaIsh members. It does nothing to stop the influx of a population that will be targeted and susceptible to future radicalization (as in the Tsarnaevs). And that is the real threat.
The Tsarnaev family was admitted into the United States as asylum seekers, not refugees. There is a big difference in how those two categories of people are vetted by the government.

Also, are you trying to make the case for a PreCrime Division equipped with precogs in order to stop people that might become radicalized? Anyone can be radicalized (as evidence by our own citizens who have committed acts of terror and violence) when subjected to the right conditions.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/21 02:52:10


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






And that is really the crux of the matter. The amount of vetting, and biometric data collection doesn't really amount to much. I would guess we have a heck of a lot more data on any individual in the US, but that doesn't exactly stop violent crimes from happening every day.

Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
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 Gordon Shumway wrote:
So what would our biometric database tell us about a bunch of hypothetical Iraqis if they needed to seek refuge in our country exactly? What percentage of them were measured? Would it give you any more comfort to know that we in some way measured them at one point? Im curious to know what sort of measuring device would allow you to sleep comfortably at night with an influx of refugees.



I can tell you as someone who operated the BATS/HIIDE systems, that from 07-09 or so, 100% of iraqis who entered a US/coalition base (provided the coalition people had them of course) were entered into the system. Wanted a contracting job? You got entered. Detained? You get entered.



The caveat here, is that the system does rely on good reporting in the database. For instance, that 07-09 tour, we had to force a number of people to stop reporting people by their nicknames, because it was already leading to problems within the biometric databases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Is this not the same guy who said this:



Obviously, that was before Trump starting saying the things he's said, and probably before the campaign really kicked off...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/21 06:41:35


 
   
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United States

 whembly wrote:

Hey *you* brought up the fact that these states are mostly republicans and of course, they'd band together.


In a matter which enables the GOP to take a what is essentially a free shot at Obama? Yeah, you would expect Republican governors to band together. That's hardly a controversial claim.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
 Gordon Shumway wrote:
So what would our biometric database tell us about a bunch of hypothetical Iraqis if they needed to seek refuge in our country exactly? What percentage of them were measured? Would it give you any more comfort to know that we in some way measured them at one point? Im curious to know what sort of measuring device would allow you to sleep comfortably at night with an influx of refugees.



I can tell you as someone who operated the BATS/HIIDE systems, that from 07-09 or so, 100% of iraqis who entered a US/coalition base (provided the coalition people had them of course) were entered into the system. Wanted a contracting job? You got entered. Detained? You get entered.



The caveat here, is that the system does rely on good reporting in the database. For instance, that 07-09 tour, we had to force a number of people to stop reporting people by their nicknames, because it was already leading to problems within the biometric databases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Is this not the same guy who said this:



Obviously, that was before Trump starting saying the things he's said, and probably before the campaign really kicked off...


I'm not sure if Syria uses a version of Tazkeras like in Afghanistan. What database is the State Department using to verify who the individual who's submitted refugee I-9. I highly doubt Syria has a reliable database even if they share what data they might have on the Individual

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Oh snap. David Vitter has lost his bid for Louisiana Governor.


NEW ORLEANS — With a victory that defied political geography and near universal predictions from just months earlier, a previously little-known Democrat, State Representative John Bel Edwards, soundly defeated United States Senator David Vitter in a runoff election on Saturday to become the next governor of Louisiana.

Mr. Edwards won 56 percent of the vote with virtually all of the ballots counted.

A more promising red state Democrat could hardly have been found than Mr. Edwards, a Catholic social conservative from a family of rural law enforcement officers who graduated from West Point and served eight years of active duty in the Army.

Senator David Vitter, Republican of Louisiana, celebrated with his wife, Wendy, after reaching a runoff with John Bel Edwards, a Democratic state representative, on Saturday in Kenner, La.David Vitter Ekes Out a Place in a Runoff for Governor of LouisianaOCT. 25, 2015
Senator David Vitter, center, at a stop last week in Bossier City. Long thought a lock for the governor’s office, Mr. Vitter hopes to win a runoff Saturday.David Vitter Wages Uphill Bid for Governor in Solidly Red LouisianaNOV. 19, 2015
Mr. Vitter, for his part, was a problematic candidate for Republicans, even though he had been widely seen as the favorite for months. A prostitution scandal from 2007, the baggage of an unpopular Republican incumbent, Gov. Bobby Jindal, and a series of state political foes with long memories dragged Mr. Vitter down before an Oct. 24 primary. He never recovered.

Not only did he lose this race but Mr. Vitter told supporters Saturday night that he would not run for re-election to the Senate in 2016. Republican strategists in Washington had expressed reluctance to put money behind him, preferring a candidate who would be an easier sell in a tricky election year for Senate Republicans. A line of Republicans interested in the seat has already formed.

In a state that has not elected a Democrat to statewide office since 2008, and in a part of the country where Democratic campaigns for governor are mostly suicide missions, a Republican was assumed to have an easy path to victory. Mr. Vitter was thought to be that Republican, given his overwhelming fund-raising advantage, unquestioned conservative reputation and proven skill at crushing challengers.

But last month’s nonpartisan primary, among Mr. Edwards, Mr. Vitter and two other Republicans, began to sizzle in its closing weeks. Mr. Vitter attacked the other Republicans as free-spending liberals while they labeled Mr. Vitter “vicious” and “a liar,” bringing up the prostitution scandal in debates. Something of an “Anybody but Vitter” movement began to form, powered in part by two “super PACs” formed expressly to seek his defeat.

Still, it was in the last days before the primary that the carnival tradition of Louisiana politics began to truly assert itself.

An investigative blogger published an interview with a former escort who claimed to have carried on a yearslong affair with Mr. Vitter. Soon after, a private investigator working for the Vitter campaign was arrested after surreptitiously filming a group of men at a cafe outside New Orleans — a gathering that included another private investigator, one who had tracked down the escort in the online video.

Mr. Vitter, 54, limped into Saturday’s runoff after finishing far behind Mr. Edwards, 49, in the primary, and became the standard-bearer for a Republican Party splintered by infighting.

In the weeks between the two elections, Mr. Vitter tried various tactics against Mr. Edwards: warnings that he was an “Obama liberal” in Blue Dog clothing; provocative attack ads accusing him of wanting to release “thugs” from prison or of being dangerously uncommitted to keeping out Syrian refugees; and personal ads in which Mr. Vitter obliquely addressed the prostitution scandal by saying he had been forgiven by his family.

Mr. Edwards, in turn, tried to keep the focus away from party or ideology and on his military background, Mr. Vitter’s scandal and the increasingly unpopular Mr. Jindal, who after two terms was barred by term limits from seeking re-election.

In his victory speech, Mr. Edwards alluded to the nasty campaign, saying that Louisianans had “chosen hope over scorn, over negativity and over the distrust of others” He pledged to work with Mr. Vitter during his remaining time in the Senate and to “work together regardless of party” — something he will be forced to do with a Republican-controlled Legislature.

Still, Mr. Edwards returned to a theme he had emphasized in contrasting himself with his opponent. “I will always be honest,” he said. “I will never embarrass you. I will get up every day fighting to put the people of Louisiana first.”



Just a reminder this happened.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/22 11:10:00


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

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-

A few months back, I had a rather interesting debate with CptJake and Jihadin, when I accused the USA of being in decline, as a result of their reluctance to get involved in the fight against ISIS, preferring instead to outsource the fighting to the Kurds and other rebel groups.

This Syrian refugee crisis, is, IMO, further proof of the USA in decline. It is a nation that no longer seems to know its values, or what it stands for, anymore.

Years ago, when Harry Truman faced down Communism, he knew exactly what the USA was - leader of the free world, a nation steeped in democracy, and built with the blood and sweat of immigrants. It was the land of the American dream where hard work and enterprise could get you to the top.

Unfortunately, that seems to have gone out the window. Fear and paranoia have replaced courage and enterprise. The USA of old wouldn't be citing security risks over a few Syrian refugees, the USA of old would have welcomed them in with open arms, encouraged them to embrace American values of freedom and democracy, and told the refugees that one day, they too, could become a success...

That the USA is suffering a crisis of confidence is not unique in the western world. My own country, the UK, no longer seems to know what it is, or what it stands for, but this effect seems to be more pronounced in the USA.


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USA

Too be fair, we also had the Red Scare in those days (Truman), and a whole gak ton of attempt to create thought police. Sticking to lofty principals only when it suits us is something we've been doing for at least a century now

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/22 13:28:25


   
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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A few months back, I had a rather interesting debate with CptJake and Jihadin, when I accused the USA of being in decline, as a result of their reluctance to get involved in the fight against ISIS, preferring instead to outsource the fighting to the Kurds and other rebel groups.

This Syrian refugee crisis, is, IMO, further proof of the USA in decline. It is a nation that no longer seems to know its values, or what it stands for, anymore.

Years ago, when Harry Truman faced down Communism, he knew exactly what the USA was - leader of the free world, a nation steeped in democracy, and built with the blood and sweat of immigrants. It was the land of the American dream where hard work and enterprise could get you to the top.

Unfortunately, that seems to have gone out the window. Fear and paranoia have replaced courage and enterprise. The USA of old wouldn't be citing security risks over a few Syrian refugees, the USA of old would have welcomed them in with open arms, encouraged them to embrace American values of freedom and democracy, and told the refugees that one day, they too, could become a success...

That the USA is suffering a crisis of confidence is not unique in the western world. My own country, the UK, no longer seems to know what it is, or what it stands for, but this effect seems to be more pronounced in the USA.

Asking that we make sure we do not import people hostile to freedom and democracy is a sign of decline?

 
   
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Runnin up on ya.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
A few months back, I had a rather interesting debate with CptJake and Jihadin, when I accused the USA of being in decline, as a result of their reluctance to get involved in the fight against ISIS, preferring instead to outsource the fighting to the Kurds and other rebel groups.

This Syrian refugee crisis, is, IMO, further proof of the USA in decline. It is a nation that no longer seems to know its values, or what it stands for, anymore.

Years ago, when Harry Truman faced down Communism, he knew exactly what the USA was - leader of the free world, a nation steeped in democracy, and built with the blood and sweat of immigrants. It was the land of the American dream where hard work and enterprise could get you to the top.

Unfortunately, that seems to have gone out the window. Fear and paranoia have replaced courage and enterprise. The USA of old wouldn't be citing security risks over a few Syrian refugees, the USA of old would have welcomed them in with open arms, encouraged them to embrace American values of freedom and democracy, and told the refugees that one day, they too, could become a success...

That the USA is suffering a crisis of confidence is not unique in the western world. My own country, the UK, no longer seems to know what it is, or what it stands for, but this effect seems to be more pronounced in the USA.

Asking that we make sure we do not import people hostile to freedom and democracy is a sign of decline?


If that were all that the issue is about, then there'd be no problem but the people running in the streets with their collective hair on fire about Syrian ISIS refugees (there have been none, anywhere to date) have no problem with continuing to allow refugees from other areas of the world that are experiencing similar issues (N. Africa). Let's cut off Mali now too and Samolia and .....

Running scared doesn't do us any favors, especially when it's all based on nothing.


Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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 agnosto wrote:
If that were all that the issue is about, then there'd be no problem but the people running in the streets with their collective hair on fire about Syrian ISIS refugees (there have been none, anywhere to date) have no problem with continuing to allow refugees from other areas of the world that are experiencing similar issues (N. Africa). Let's cut off Mali now too and Samolia and .....

Running scared doesn't do us any favors, especially when it's all based on nothing.

Have any groups in Mali or Somalia stated their intent to commit terrorist acts on US soil?

 
   
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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
If that were all that the issue is about, then there'd be no problem but the people running in the streets with their collective hair on fire about Syrian ISIS refugees (there have been none, anywhere to date) have no problem with continuing to allow refugees from other areas of the world that are experiencing similar issues (N. Africa). Let's cut off Mali now too and Samolia and .....

Running scared doesn't do us any favors, especially when it's all based on nothing.

Have any groups in Mali or Somalia stated their intent to commit terrorist acts on US soil?


Yes.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
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Based in nothing and exactly what ISIS wants us to do. ISIS propaganda states openly their intent to radicalize Western Nationals, and we've already seen plenty of evidence on how they can do that. What. While we're on this spree of shutting the door on people because "they could be dangerous some day maybe" how bout we just throw out all the people already here. That'll show ISIS.

   
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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
If that were all that the issue is about, then there'd be no problem but the people running in the streets with their collective hair on fire about Syrian ISIS refugees (there have been none, anywhere to date) have no problem with continuing to allow refugees from other areas of the world that are experiencing similar issues (N. Africa). Let's cut off Mali now too and Samolia and .....

Running scared doesn't do us any favors, especially when it's all based on nothing.

Have any groups in Mali or Somalia stated their intent to commit terrorist acts on US soil?


Yes.

From your own link, the title reads;
Al-Shabaab threatens malls, including some in U.S.; FBI downplays threat


Second paragraph;
Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson told CNN Sunday that there's "no credible or specific evidence" suggesting a U.S. mall attack is in the works.


Further in the article
The FBI and Homeland Security issued a joint written statement saying local law enforcement and first responders have been told the agencies are not "aware of any specific, credible plot against the Mall of America or any other domestic commercial shopping center."

The police department in Bloomington, Minnesota, which regularly patrols the mall, also said there was no credible threat against it, describing the mall as a "very safe place."


Another U.S. law enforcement official familiar with the situation also told CNN that there is no actual working threat against any mall in the country and added that no one should avoid going to a mall because of the online threat.


Not the same league as ISIS. Al-Shabaab has almost no force projection outside their area.

 
   
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Moving the goalposts; you asked if there was a Somali military group that's threatened to attack the US and there is.

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Moving the goalposts; you asked if there was a Somali military group that's threatened to attack the US and there is.

I apologize for not including the word "credible" in my post. I had assumed that it would be implicit and that we were not going to discuss spurious threats, I see now I was mistaken and will endeavor to be clearer in future.

 
   
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Runnin up on ya.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Moving the goalposts; you asked if there was a Somali military group that's threatened to attack the US and there is.


The problem with moving these goalposts is compounded by the fact that all of these disparate radical groups are flocking to the ISIS banner so though they are from different regions, it will be easier, going forward, so just lump them all together as ISIS.

The Mali attack claimed the life of an American, Al Qaeda linked group, not ISIS which is illustrative of how these groups will try to outdo each other while civilians are caught in the crossfire.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/world/middleeast/paris-and-mali-attacks-expose-a-lethal-al-qaeda-isis-rivalry.html?_r=0

The danger that we face is in not acting morally to save as many innocent people as possible from these regions. The more entrenched these groups become, the higher probability that people will become radicalized in that region AND here; lest we forget the millions of Muslim people already residing in the US.

Radicalization, as we saw in the Paris attacks, is a danger regardless of nationality. So unless you plan on placing US citizens in concentration camps, you'd better be seen as doing something proactive to help people in the larger community or you're in danger of opening doors to extremism HERE. We've already had cases of US citizens becoming radicalized but so far it's been relatively minor compared to what if would be if we just turned our collective backs on people from regions of the world where these citizens have roots.
http://www.newsweek.com/its-radicalized-americans-we-need-worry-about-refugees-not-so-much-396730

People like this guy: https://www.rt.com/usa/310333-general-clark-radicalized-camps/ need to be slapped down, hard and fast; what he's proposing would have such negative repercussions as to make Paris look like a cakewalk. If you start rounding up Americans and putting them in internment camps, these days, you would basically be declaring war on a segment of your own population and that never ends well, anytime in history it's been done has ended in tears.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Moving the goalposts; you asked if there was a Somali military group that's threatened to attack the US and there is.

I apologize for not including the word "credible" in my post. I had assumed that it would be implicit and that we were not going to discuss spurious threats, I see now I was mistaken and will endeavor to be clearer in future.



So Americans going to Somalia to fight for Al Shabab isn't a credible threat? Of course the FBI downplays the threat, it's their job to keep us all from running around like chickens while they try to contain any possible outcome.

http://www.adl.org/assets/pdf/combating-hate/al-shabaabs-american-recruits.pdf


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/22 16:06:56


Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
 
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