The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**LordofHats**

My votes on the Bald Eagle;

The heroes we need!

**jasper76**

Crazyterran wrote:
.

So, who do you think Trumps running mate will be? Christie? Cruz to unify the party? His hair?

I'm guessing Jeff Sessions or Chris Christie.

**Sarouan**

reds8n wrote:
[ oh yeah, this happened too :
https://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/29/wayne-simmons-right-wing-media-s-benghazi-expert-pleads-guilty-fraud/210145

I'm not living in the USA but even so, the fact such a man managed to lie so blatantly about his skills to the point it could have been really damaging to his own country and put lives at stakes at such a high level is really frightening.

About Trump, our own media is of course "covering" the news but honestly, I feel like they're making too much noise for something that's not really worth it. I mean, is it really that important? To me, it just look like another step, but maybe I'm wrong.

**kronk**

d-usa wrote:
Carly Fiorina has the honor of dropping out twice in the same campaign!

Ross Perot did if first!

**Frazzled**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
I'm really hoping Sanders drops out now. When you have the possibility of someone like Trump becoming president, you need the party to be as unified as possible. Clinton may not be perfect but she's the best chance in the general the D's have right now, and they need it.

OTOH, Trumps favrobility rating haven't pushed 40%, and his unfavrobility is generally mid-60s, so maybe I'm overly concerned.

You should be concerned. Clinton's are barely[i][u] above them.

Trump is the Presidential nominee. To quote some chick "So this is how freedom dies, to thunderous applause."

**reds8n**

kronk wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Carly Fiorina has the honor of dropping out twice in the same campaign!

Ross Perot did if first!

One assumes she was hired to aid in the firing of all his staff -- play to your strengths kind of thing.

**Frazzled**

ProtoClone wrote:
Ensis Ferrae wrote:
whembly wrote:

You talking about Sanders going 3rd Party? o.O

I think it's not beyond the realm of possibility

It's totally possible.
Sanders would do well to try and convince those disenchanted with HRC and Trump to vote for him if he continued as a third party candidate.

News flash, Sanders IS a third party candidate. He's a Socialist, not a Democrat.

**Frozocrone**

Waking up to Trump clinching the nomination is frightening.
But I also saw that scientists are trying to revive brain dead people so...like whatever. It's not like the world is a fantastic place to live in anyway.

Is Bernie Sanders still running for president? Because out of all the ideals that each candidate has, he seems to be the most suited for a presidential term.

**jmurph**

I think this just reaffirms how *terrible* this crop of candidates is. On the one hand you have a repellant, corrupt narcissist who can't even squelch a 70 year old socialist who seems lost half of the time and on the other hand you have a repellant, corrupt, bloviating narcissist who talks out of both sides of his mouth, with both sides being equally ill informed and terrifying. Battle of the oligarchs indeed!

I am reminded of Helen Keller's statement,""Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats. We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee."

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

Ouze wrote:
djones520 wrote:
I did see a headline the other day saying that even though she is currently winning, Clinton has drastically lower numbers then she did 8 years ago in the primaries. Dem's are not at all pumped about getting out there this year.

No, I think Sebster nailed it. I'm inclined to vote for Hillary, but I sure don't feel very good about it. I certainly didn't caucus for her. The only person I know, anecdotally, that is excited about it is my wife's cousin, who is a 70 year old white woman.

My stomach kind of feels bad when I think about what her presidency is going to look like. 4, if not 8, years of one crappy scandal after another, with her being just a plausibly deniable distance away from each one.

Impeachment proceedings within the first 2 years.

Government shutdowns, even worse gridlock that before - if the Democrats retake the Senate, I think Sebster was right - I think you're going to see just how bad partisanship can actually get after the shenanigans with Merrick Garland and how hard it was to get Obamacare passed - they're not going to repeat the mistakes of offering any concessions at all because they know "yes" votes are never going to materialize.

Hillary has shown an appetite for foreign adventurism that I felt we were just finally starting to get away from.

I'm not reflexively against gun control, but she has come out in favor of the worst kinds of gun control - "assault weapon bans" that ban items based upon cosmetic aspects like barrel shrouds and pistol grips.

And so on, and so forth. I tend to lean liberal - how excited could I get about a candidate who is essentially a moderate Republican, back when those still existed, even without all the baggage she brings?

And that, in my mind, is the best case! The alternative is President Trump.

An excellent overview of what a HRC administration will look like.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jmurph wrote:
I think this just reaffirms how *terrible* this crop of candidates is. On the one hand you have a repellant, corrupt narcissist who can't even squelch a 70 year old socialist who seems lost half of the time and on the other hand you have a repellant, corrupt, bloviating narcissist who talks out of both sides of his mouth, with both sides being equally ill informed and terrifying. Battle of the oligarchs indeed!

I am reminded of Helen Keller's statement,""Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats. We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee."

This is not the first time in history that America has been on the verge of picking a bad president from a poor field of candidates.

America will survive - your checks and balances, plus the strength of your institutions, will outlive HRC or Donald Trump.

**Co'tor Shas**

whembly wrote:
Co'tor Shas wrote:
I certainly hope so.

You're from NY... why do you think Trump has a better chance than I do?

(Internet crapped out last night, so this reply is a bit late.)

I worry because I see people I know, people who I thought of as friendly, reasonable, decent people standing behind him. I see support for a person like him. The sexism, the racism, the islamophobia, the general horribleness, they see it and lap it up. They throw themselves behind xenophobia. They embrace hatred and fear. They embrace taking away others liberties to quiet their own fears. They denigrate people to raise themselves up. That so many people in our country support him makes me feel sick to my stomach.

This is so much more than someone I disagree with. I would not be scared if a conservative got in the white house, disappointed, and perhaps frustrated, but not scared. But Trump represents the antithesis of my core beliefs. The one belief of mine that will never change is that we are all equal. That we, as a people, and stronger when we work together. That greatness comes from unity, not from division. But these people are they opposite. They hate people who are different. They want to divide us. And not just along class, religious and racial lines. Along party lines and beliefs. They hate people who have different viewpoints. They scream about greatness, but would bring only ruin. That is what I fear. I fear these people, and these ideas, taking root.

**whembly**

So, let me just state this again.

I'm #NeverTrump & #NeverClinton. It's my vote.

With that out of the way, I was discussing Trump's rise with a buddy and I think he distilled why Trump is winning.

Remember during GWB years? How harsh his critics were... especially the big media? GWB and "his team" never really addressed those criticism head-on, instead, mostly employed the strategy of "I'm not going to dignify that with a response".

Same with McCain/Romney refusing to hit Obama *hard* during the '08 / '12 election. The GOP Primary was nastier than the General Election.

It drove the GOP voters nuts...

Enter Trump.

You *know* he'll fight in the gutters... and in fact excels in that kind of tango.

Clinton's challenge is to stay out of the gutters...

:barf:

:sigh:

What do ya'll think?

Is it that simple? That Trump's rise is simply a candidate that the voters recognized that he'll fight "dirty"?

jasper76 wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
.

So, who do you think Trumps running mate will be? Christie? Cruz to unify the party? His hair?

I'm guessing Jeff Sessions or Chris Christie.

If Trump smart... neither.

However, I'm at a loss who'd it be... but, it needs to be someone who's a career politician imo.

**Jihadin**

jasper76 wrote:
Crazyterran wrote:
.

So, who do you think Trumps running mate will be? Christie? Cruz to unify the party? His hair?

I'm guessing Jeff Sessions or Chris Christie.

Bernie Sander as VP. Its so off the wall and Trump style.

**Nostromodamus**

whembly wrote:

Is it that simple? That Trump's rise is simply a candidate that the voters recognized that he'll fight "dirty"?

No. I just think there's a lot of idiots in this country.

**Jihadin**

If Trump can do it Reagan style it'll be a clincher

**Frazzled**

With that out of the way, I was discussing Trump's rise with a buddy and I think he distilled why Trump is winning.

Remember during GWB years? How harsh his critics were... especially the big media? GWB and "his team" never really addressed those criticism head-on, instead, mostly employed the strategy of "I'm not going to dignify that with a response".

Same with McCain/Romney refusing to hit Obama *hard* during the '08 / '12 election. The GOP Primary was nastier than the General Election.

It drove the GOP voters nuts...

Enter Trump.

You *know* he'll fight in the gutters... and in fact excels in that kind of tango.

Thats part of it. The real part is this, adn the same reason the only person on the planet old and crotchety enough as me gave HRC a hard run.

*People are hurting in this country. Our economy is turning into a South American one with lots and lots of lower class, and a very small elite. The supposed recovery did nothing but accelerate that. Both parties dither and dither, very content in how things are working-because the people that run them are the elites benefiting from it.

If the parties had worked to deal with this, or at least try to ameliorate the change, these guys would never have made it through the door.

HRC should not underestimate that anger. She represents "The Same." People are tired of the same.
For the same reasons the 30s brought Fascism and Communism through Europe, and semi dictatorship here under FDR, Trump/Sanders gained power.

**whembly**

Co'tor Shas wrote:

(Internet crapped out last night, so this reply is a bit late.)

I worry because I see people I know, people who I thought of as friendly, reasonable, decent people standing behind him. I see support for a person like him. The sexism, the racism, the islamophobia, the general horribleness, they see it and lap it up. They throw themselves behind xenophobia. They embrace hatred and fear. They embrace taking away others liberties to quiet their own fears. They denigrate people to raise themselves up. That so many people in our country support him makes me feel sick to my stomach.

This is so much more than someone I disagree with. I would not be scared if a conservative got in the white house, disappointed, and perhaps frustrated, but not scared. But Trump represents the antithesis of my core beliefs. The one belief of mine that will never change is that we are all equal. That we, as a people, and stronger when we work together. That greatness comes from unity, not from division. But these people are they opposite. They hate people who are different. They want to divide us. And not just along class, religious and racial lines. Along party lines and beliefs. They hate people who have different viewpoints. They scream about greatness, but would bring only ruin. That is what I fear. I fear these people, and these ideas, taking root.

I'll be honest with you...

Your reservation here was exactly how I felt prior to Obama winning.

:shrugs:

This country has survived Obama and it would sure as hell survive a Clinton or Trump administrations.

Now... where's the alcohol??!?!?

**Compel**

Could be both... Just a thought.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
With that out of the way, I was discussing Trump's rise with a buddy and I think he distilled why Trump is winning.

Remember during GWB years? How harsh his critics were... especially the big media? GWB and "his team" never really addressed those criticism head-on, instead, mostly employed the strategy of "I'm not going to dignify that with a response".

Same with McCain/Romney refusing to hit Obama *hard* during the '08 / '12 election. The GOP Primary was nastier than the General Election.

It drove the GOP voters nuts...

Enter Trump.

You *know* he'll fight in the gutters... and in fact excels in that kind of tango..

Thats part of it. The real part is this, adn the same reason the only person on the planet old and crotchety enough as me gave HRC a hard run.

*People are hurting in this country. Our economy is turning into a South American one with lots and lots of lower class, and a very small elite. The supposed recovery did nothing but accelerate that. Both parties dither and dither, very content in how things are working-because the people that run them are the elites benefiting from it.

If the parties had worked to deal with this, or at least try to ameliorate the change, these guys would never have made it through the door.

HRC should not underestimate that anger. She represents "The Same." People are tired of the same.
For the same reasons the 30s brought Fascism and Communism through Europe, and semi dictatorship here under FDR, Trump/Sanders gained power.

Trump capturing that "non-politician" vote.

We're seeing a huge voting bloc of that now... and, even to a certain degree it's why Sanders is enjoying support (he's an outsider too).

**Compel**

Did Bloomberg's attempts ever get anywhere?

**Nostromodamus**

What I find ironic is that not too long ago there was a large portion of people who were fed up with "old white guys" running the country.

Now, after 8 years of a younger black guy sitting in the oval office, 2 of the top contenders are old, white guys

**reds8n**

whembly wrote:

Remember during GWB years? How harsh his critics were... .

And it was such a successful presidency as well !

**kronk**

I won't vote for Clinton or Trump. I'm voting for steel and snakes!

**whembly**

Compel wrote:
Did Bloomberg's attempts ever get anywhere?

Nope.

This HRC's nomination, unless she actually get's an indictment over her classified information malfeasance...

Then we might see a 'white knight' scenario (aka Bloomberg).

But, don't hold your breath.

**Nostromodamus**

Hey I'm all for punishing buildings, but dat haircut, nuh-uh...

**whembly**

Nostromodamus wrote:
What I find ironic is that not too long ago there was a large portion of people who were fed up with "old white guys" running the country.

Now, after 8 years of a younger black guy sitting in the oval office, 2 of the top contenders are old, white guys

Did I miss HRC is "guy" now?

O.o

You probably meant, 2 old white-wealthy candidates.

**Jihadin**

Thinking...Guiliane DHS
Christie Attorney General
Patreus CIA
Firona State Dept.
Carson General Surgeon or Surgeon General
Rubio Ambassador to Cuba
Cruz Ambassador to Canada
Jeb...well....Jeb

etc

**Nostromodamus**

whembly wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:
What I find ironic is that not too long ago there was a large portion of people who were fed up with "old white guys" running the country.

Now, after 8 years of a younger black guy sitting in the oval office, 2 of the top contenders are old, white guys

Did I miss HRC is "guy" now?

O.o

You probably meant, 2 old white-wealthy candidates.

I like to pretend HRC doesn't exist.

I sleep easier that way.

Besides, I didn't say "the top 2".

**plastictrees**

Strongly opposed to his aggressive bang enforcement policy, but I do want pringles now.

**Frazzled**

Nostromodamus wrote:
What I find ironic is that not too long ago there was a large portion of people who were fed up with "old white guys" running the country.

Now, after 8 years of a younger black guy sitting in the oval office, 2 of the top contenders are old, white guys

Thats harsh.