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Haha, two turns after summoning anyone? We need to complete the picture!

 Formosa wrote:
So walls of text aside, what is the general consensus, can the summoned bloodthirster assault the turn its out?

A simple yes or no will suffice, a show of hands if you will

Nope nor can it change flight mode, which means unless it is grounded it may not assault the turn after either.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Again, units summoned via the blood tithe aren't coming from reserve otherwise it would say so.

I'm not saying they do.

I'm saying that any argument that allows Blood Tithe'd FMCs to assault the turn after they arrive can be used for any Deep Striking FMC.

The problem with your entire argument is that it hinges on Blood Tithe'd FMCs as "special" and that they can ignore rules because you want them to.

Then your interpretation is wrong because normal FMCs deep strike in the movement phase, which is why they can't assault next turn. As demonstrated.

No, you've failed to demonstrate that.
I've shown that arriving is simultaneous to deploying (when speaking of reserves). I've shown that arriving happens when you roll a 3+ on the die.

No, you've failed to show that.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641693.page#7715521
Your response to this was "You still haven't managed to provide a quote to back up your claim that reserves arrive before the movement phase. All you've managed to establish is that they arrive that turn. " which I actually address in my post if you'd have bothered to read it.

When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving it onto the table as described below.

When they arrive, deploy them. When do they arrive?

If the roll is less than 3, it remains in Reserve and automatically arrives at the start of your fourth turn.

Well, unless you're saying that Reserves arrive at a different time on turn 4 than any other turn, or Ongoing Reserves arrive at a different time, they arrive at the start of the turn.
Saying that they arrive in the movement phase has no basis in fact and is wishful thinking.

^ you cant get any more plain and simple than that honestly.

I'd recommend those that are looking at this from the perspective of those who play 40K regularly. There are clear and defined phases that occur in order, starting with:

Beginning of the turn: All kinds of funky, rules hazy stuff happens
Movement: Normal moving stuff
Psychic: Khorne don't like this stuff no how! (roll for warp points anyway)
- Psychic subphase: resolve each power
Shooting: Kill stuff
Assault Phase: Declaring assaults
- Assault Sub-phases: resolve each combat
End of turn phase: tally up points and any other loose end shenanigans

I would venture a guess that same people that are arguing against being able to switch at movement are the same people that got hung up and confused when resolving the Assault phase when 6th hit and things got a little wonky.
You are trying to say a duck and a chicken are the same because feathers and thats not how the rules a written.

At this point we may have successfully established that everyone keeps to his own opinion, but mine still wins because: "pewpew, you're dead!" (citation needed)

1) is paraphrased to the point of imprecision where identity or subordination is implied rather than sequency/causation. Remember: "When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as describes below [...] you must first roll for all Reserves, and then move any arriving Reserves, before any other units can move" 
2) is actually a conclusion missing the second premise: deploying from deep strike is deploying from reserves (which I'd agree with!). 
3) and 4) are direct rules quotes and therefore unaffected by agreement or disagreement. 
5) is true for units that were kept in reserves at the start of the game, but there are other ways for units to arrive via deep strike (reserves), e.g. veil (movement phase), skies of blood (movement phase), conjuration (psychic phase), blood tithe (start of the game), axe of ruin (any phase, even during opponent's turn). Also, there is no "start of the turn phase"

1) so is deploying by deepstrike part of arriving by deepstrike or are they two distinct things? Yes or No.
2) So you agree with the conclusion does the lack of explanation of the premises change that?
3) so you agree
4) and again
5) is true for all relevant parts of this argument correct?

 Nehekhare wrote:
At this point we may have successfully established that everyone keeps to his own opinion, but mine still wins because: "pewpew, you're dead!" (citation needed)

No opinions needed boss... thats what the rules say

if it were, this model cannot run or charge but can do X, it would be different, but it doesnt. It just says using the deep strike special rule. This occurs, according to the rule book, before any movement takes place, at the same time when you draw cards and so on. Just because it used to be played one way for several editions does not mean it is played this way.

If you, for example, tried to resolve some of your shooting during the assault phase, utilizing the rules for shooting and not having permission to do so, I would like at you like you have no idea what you are doing. So when you try to say the same thing at us when the rules give you permission to do so, we are again going to look at you like you have no clue.

The rules state the FMC comes in via deepstrike at the start of the player turn, before movement phase, the creature because it is swooping will be somewhat protected from interceptor (balance emphasis), and also because it has no other choice.
When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

The rules state the FMC comes in via deepstrike at the start of the player turn, before movement phase, the creature because it is swooping will be somewhat protected from interceptor (balance emphasis), and also because it has no other choice. 
When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

And you believe this is true for all FMCs deepstriking from reserve. Is that correct?

 FlingitNow wrote:

The rules state the FMC comes in via deepstrike at the start of the player turn, before movement phase, the creature because it is swooping will be somewhat protected from interceptor (balance emphasis), and also because it has no other choice. 
When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

And you believe this is true for all FMCs deepstriking from reserve. Is that correct?

Just the ones from codex: Khorne Daemonkin... Yup

 FlingitNow wrote:

1) is paraphrased to the point of imprecision where identity or subordination is implied rather than sequency/causation. Remember: "When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving onto the table as describes below [...] you must first roll for all Reserves, and then move any arriving Reserves, before any other units can move" 
2) is actually a conclusion missing the second premise: deploying from deep strike is deploying from reserves (which I'd agree with!). 
3) and 4) are direct rules quotes and therefore unaffected by agreement or disagreement. 
5) is true for units that were kept in reserves at the start of the game, but there are other ways for units to arrive via deep strike (reserves), e.g. veil (movement phase), skies of blood (movement phase), conjuration (psychic phase), blood tithe (start of the game), axe of ruin (any phase, even during opponent's turn). Also, there is no "start of the turn phase"

1) so is deploying by deepstrike part of arriving by deepstrike or are they two distinct things? Yes or No.
2) So you agree with the conclusion does the lack of explanation of the premises change that?
3) so you agree
4) and again
5) is true for all relevant parts of this argument correct?

1) can't answer since "part of" is too imprecise and may imply anything. The rules say : "When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it [...] Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. [...] you must first roll for all Reserves, and then move any arriving Reserves", so what must be acknowledged is the following:
- deployment from DS ("move") necessitates previous arriving ("roll")
- arriving is a condition that may still apply to a unit that is on the board
2) I agree with both premises and the conclusion.
3)/4) yes.
5) no, since different ways/phases are relevant for this argument.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:


No opinions needed boss... thats what [I think what] the rules say

When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

fixed that for you.

And that is what the rules really say:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping or Gliding until the start of its next turn." (BRB 68)

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:

The rules state the FMC comes in via deepstrike at the start of the player turn, before movement phase, the creature because it is swooping will be somewhat protected from interceptor (balance emphasis), and also because it has no other choice. 
When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

And you believe this is true for all FMCs deepstriking from reserve. Is that correct?

Just the ones from codex: Khorne Daemonkin... Yup

So why not from other codexes what makes the Khorne Daemonkin ones different?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1) can't answer since "part of" is too imprecise and may imply anything. The rules say : "When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it [...] Then pick another arriving unit and deploy it, and so on until all arriving units are on the table. [...] you must first roll for all Reserves, and then move any arriving Reserves", so what must be acknowledged is the following: 
- deployment from DS ("move") necessitates previous arriving ("roll") 
- arriving is a condition that may still apply to a unit that is on the board 
2) I agree with both premises and the conclusion. 
3)/4) yes. 
5) no, since different ways/phases are relevant for this argument.

So

1) Whilst deploying by deepstrike am I arriving by deepstrike? Or have I already arrived by deepstrike prior to deploying by deepstrike?
5) So units that started the game in DS reserve AND daemons summoned by the blood tithe both arrive by Deepstrike during the start of the turn phase. Is that correct?

 Formosa wrote:
So walls of text aside, what is the general consensus, can the summoned bloodthirster assault the turn its out?

A simple yes or no will suffice, a show of hands if you will

No.

 Nehekhare wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:


No opinions needed boss... thats what [I think what] the rules say

When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

fixed that for you.

And that is what the rules really say:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping or Gliding until the start of its next turn." (BRB 68)

Why is it when doing this on the forum, they try to find the most condescending of trying to twist the argument?
I appreciate you attempting to fix something that didnt need to be fixed though.

Also, I fail to see how what you wrote is any different than what I wrote... I think I did a pretty good job at paraphrasing without having a BRB in front of me

And to the question about how the Daemonkin book is different than any other book as far as the rule of summoning goes, because it is the only rule of its kind. Perhaps we'll see it again in codex: tzeentch daemonkin or one of the other gods, but that is hypothetical. Even the one in the Codex: Chaos daemons is worded differently and is therefore a different rule with different permissions and restrictions.

I also validate that on the basis that according to what you say, if the chaos lord that holds the axe of ruin is killed and uses the summoning rule to bring into the game a blood thirster, then according to what you have said, because the bloodthirster is swooping when summoned and because he is already on the table due to the deepstrike special rules, he cannot change his movement until 2 turns from his appearance which is utter nonsense according to the BRB.

And to the question about how the Daemonkin book is different than any other book as far as the rule of summoning goes, because it is the only rule of its kind. Perhaps we'll see it again in codex: tzeentch daemonkin or one of the other gods, but that is hypothetical. Even the one in the Codex: Chaos daemons is worded differently and is therefore a different rule with different permissions and restrictions. 

I also validate that on the basis that according to what you say, if the chaos lord that holds the axe of ruin is killed and uses the summoning rule to bring into the game a blood thirster, then according to what you have said, because the bloodthirster is swooping when summoned and because he is already on the table due to the deepstrike special rules, he cannot change his movement until 2 turns from his appearance which is utter nonsense according to the BRB.

Have you got an actual answer to the question. Why using actual rules can you change flight mode the turn you arrive if summoned via blood tithe but not arrived from reserves. What about the summoning rules makes the answer different? Nothing in those rules changes anything about DS except you don't gave to start the game in reserve nor roll for arrival, nor does it say you can move in the movement phase in which you arrive. So why are you treating it differentl?

it does say you can move in the movement phase. It says quite clearly that the FMC chooses at the start of the movement phase whether it is gliding or swooping and then proceeds to move as little or as far as the rules allow.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
it does say you can move in the movement phase. It says quite clearly that the FMC chooses at the start of the movement phase whether it is gliding or swooping and then proceeds to move as little or as far as the rules allow.

No, it does not say "at the start of the movement phase".

Please be correct about things you think are "quite clear" - paraphrasing things and getting them wrong leads to incorrect arguments.

So I have a point to make, but I don't want to get in the whole please state blah blah blah boring argument. I just want to make a point.

Forget RAW for a minute. And let's all live in a world where players play friendly games and common sense is applied. Common sense is the wording I choose to use for RAI. Why on earth would GW allow you to summon a unit, that on average you won't be able to summon until around turn three, and then make sure it can do a grand total of absolutely nothing up until after what could be the last turn? It makes literally no sense from a common sense point of view.

I have no doubt that they don't want you to assault the turn you arrive from being summoned. It sucks, but it was expected, but to suggest they'll allow you to summon a pure combat unit and not allow you to charge the turn afterwards is a little baffling. Common sense surely dictates that they wanted you to be able to charge the turn after it arrives. Surely that was GW's intention? I was in my local store today, and that's they way they told me it worked. I know that's not the sort of evidence that stands up in court. I know there are those of you out there that will choose to destroy this post because it makes you feel big and clever and you probably don't collect this army. But common guys, it's supposed to be a fun game.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Forget RAW for a minute. And let's all live in a world where players play friendly games and common sense is applied. Common sense is the wording I choose to use for RAI. Why on earth would GW allow you to summon a unit, that on average you won't be able to summon until around turn three, and then make sure it can do a grand total of absolutely nothing up until after what could be the last turn? It makes literally no sense from a common sense point of view.

Why on earth would GW allow you to Deep Strike FMCs ever if it's likely it can do a grand total of absolutely nothing up until after what could be the last turn? It makes literally no sense from a common sense point of view.

Blood Tithe'd Bloodthirsters arent special.

Also, accusations of bias are pretty rude. I'm sure you didn't intend that though.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So I have a point to make, but I don't want to get in the whole please state blah blah blah boring argument. I just want to make a point.

Forget RAW for a minute. And let's all live in a world where players play friendly games and common sense is applied.

Absolutely this for every friendly game you want to play. But this is YMDC. Friendly gameplay doesn't apply here, only the cold hard letter of the rules

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
it does say you can move in the movement phase. It says quite clearly that the FMC chooses at the start of the movement phase whether it is gliding or swooping and then proceeds to move as little or as far as the rules allow.

Where does it say this in blood tithe? Or indeed anywhere? Still absolutely no reason given as to why you'd treat a summoned FMC differently to one that had simply DS'd from reserve at the same time. So I'll assume you have no answer for this. So why continue posting? What you want the rules to be is irrelevant. The rules are clear.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So I have a point to make, but I don't want to get in the whole please state blah blah blah boring argument. I just want to make a point.

Forget RAW for a minute. And let's all live in a world where players play friendly games and common sense is applied.

Absolutely this for every friendly game you want to play. But this is YMDC. Friendly gameplay doesn't apply here, only the cold hard letter of the rules

Yeah, I get that. But I read these arguments and it's the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Hence I ask people to look at it from the RAI point of view.

And no intention to accuse bias. I'm never here to offend. But if you remover the RAW and don't break it down to the very last word, and then think what the intention was... I think most will then come out with the same answer.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So I have a point to make, but I don't want to get in the whole please state blah blah blah boring argument. I just want to make a point.

Forget RAW for a minute. And let's all live in a world where players play friendly games and common sense is applied.

Absolutely this for every friendly game you want to play. But this is YMDC. Friendly gameplay doesn't apply here, only the cold hard letter of the rules

Yeah, I get that. But I read these arguments and it's the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Hence I ask people to look at it from the RAI point of view.

And no intention to accuse bias. I'm never here to offend. But if you remover the RAW and don't break it down to the very last word, and then think what the intention was... I think most will then come out with the same answer.

Except we do not (usually) know what the authors intent is. For example - The Sporocyte/Tyrannocyte has a special rule where each of its 5 guns can fire at different targets, and must target the nearest enemy unit (paraphrased slightly). The White Dwarf article which first introduced these units had a note that for the purposes of the shooting attacks, you basically treat the model like a vehicle - determine which unit is the nearest for each individual gun. However, when the rules were released online and in Shield of Baal, the designer note never made it into the publications. As such those who have seen the WD version know what the intent is. Everyone else is left guessing what was intended.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
So I have a point to make, but I don't want to get in the whole please state blah blah blah boring argument. I just want to make a point.

Forget RAW for a minute. And let's all live in a world where players play friendly games and common sense is applied.

Absolutely this for every friendly game you want to play. But this is YMDC. Friendly gameplay doesn't apply here, only the cold hard letter of the rules

Yeah, I get that. But I read these arguments and it's the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Hence I ask people to look at it from the RAI point of view.

And no intention to accuse bias. I'm never here to offend. But if you remover the RAW and don't break it down to the very last word, and then think what the intention was... I think most will then come out with the same answer.

I agree look at the intent. Literally nothing changes how summoning works in comparison to normal deepstrike (except you don't roll and don't start in DS reserve neither of which has a baring on this). Yes it may take you to turn 3 to summon but it is certainly possible to do it turn 2, particularly in a blood host (as you only need 5 kills to get a DP at that point) and it is possible to do it turn 1 (if you go 2nd and are against triple FBSC for example). Reserves often happen turn 3 or 4 so why treat them differently? Yes you choose what units go in reserve but BT units are free extra units so is it really that unlikely that they are meant to come with downsides? The same is true of summoned FMCs from psychic powers.

Also it is their clear design intent to give your opponent a turn of full Bs firing before you assault. Though a failed grounding test can see you in combat a turn earlier. Granted had it been up to me I'd have forced gliding on FMCs that arrive from DS. But it's not up to me. The rules are clear no matter how much people want them to be different.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Again, units summoned via the blood tithe aren't coming from reserve otherwise it would say so.

I'm not saying they do.

I'm saying that any argument that allows Blood Tithe'd FMCs to assault the turn after they arrive can be used for any Deep Striking FMC.

The problem with your entire argument is that it hinges on Blood Tithe'd FMCs as "special" and that they can ignore rules because you want them to.

Then your interpretation is wrong because normal FMCs deep strike in the movement phase, which is why they can't assault next turn. As demonstrated.

No, you've failed to demonstrate that.
I've shown that arriving is simultaneous to deploying (when speaking of reserves). I've shown that arriving happens when you roll a 3+ on the die.

No, you've failed to show that.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641693.page#7715521
Your response to this was "You still haven't managed to provide a quote to back up your claim that reserves arrive before the movement phase. All you've managed to establish is that they arrive that turn. " which I actually address in my post if you'd have bothered to read it.

I did read your post, and yes, you did attempt to address it. Unfortunately, as I said, all you managed to establish is that reserves arrive that turn, not that they arrive before the Movement phase. But why are you even continuing to discuss Reserves? You've already conceded that units summoned via the Blood Tithe aren't coming from reserve so it's really not relevant to the issue of the of the Bloodthirster being summoned this way. However, just to draw a line under this issue, I'll run you through the RAW.

rigeld2 wrote:

When Reserves arrive, pick one of your arriving units and deploy it, moving it onto the table as described below.

When they arrive, deploy them. When do they arrive?

Well, the rules state that they move "onto the table as described below". Let's then look below where the rules say "When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move onto the table from the controlling player’s table edge". So when do we move units? In the Movement phase. The rules also state that "A unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from Reserve". This is because it has missed the start of the turn phase, having entered play at the start of the Movement phase. We already know Deep Striking units arrive during the Movement Phase; why would it be any different for units in Reserve moving on from the board edge?

rigeld2 wrote:
Saying that they arrive in the movement phase has no basis in fact and is wishful thinking.

Again, where your argument falls down is that you're failing to distinguish between rolling for Reserves during the start of the turn, and when those units in Reserves actually arrive. As usual, they could have been better written, but if you read the rules for Reserves carefully, nowhere does it state that following the roll, the unit immediately arrives, or explicitly state that they do so during the start of the turn phase. It only says that they arrive that turn, which I have discussed above. To think that you have demonstrated conclusively that they arrive during the start of the turn phase has no basis in fact and is wishful thinking.

In actual fact, the way the Reserves rules are written is very compatible with them arriving during the Movement Phase and there are no rules or conflicts suggesting that this isn't the case. The only explicit restriction is that you must move all your arriving Reserves before moving your other units but this is not at all incompatible with the Reserves arriving during the Movement Phase; indeed if they were arriving during the start of the turn phase this instruction would be redundant and unnecessary.

Well wow. I think Tonberry7 had convinced me.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
I did read your post, and yes, you did attempt to address it. Unfortunately, as I said, all you managed to establish is that reserves arrive that turn, not that they arrive before the Movement phase. But why are you even continuing to discuss Reserves? You've already conceded that units summoned via the Blood Tithe aren't coming from reserve so it's really not relevant to the issue of the of the Bloodthirster being summoned this way. However, just to draw a line under this issue, I'll run you through the RAW.

I wasn't the first person who brought it up. I was responding to you arguing about Reserves.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/641693/7715421.page

Well, the rules state that they move "onto the table as described below". Let's then look below where the rules say "When a Reserves unit arrives, it must move onto the table from the controlling player’s table edge". So when do we move units? In the Movement phase. The rules also state that "A unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from Reserve". This is because it has missed the start of the turn phase, having entered play at the start of the Movement phase. We already know Deep Striking units arrive during the Movement Phase; why would it be any different for units in Reserve moving on from the board edge?

So you are actually contending that Reserves that arrive on T4 arrive at a different time than those on turns 2 and 3? And Ongoing Reserves also arrive at a different time than normal Reserves?

In actual fact, the way the Reserves rules are written is very compatible with them arriving during the Movement Phase and there are no rules or conflicts suggesting that this isn't the case. The only explicit restriction is that you must move all your arriving Reserves before moving your other units but this is not at all incompatible with the Reserves arriving during the Movement Phase; indeed if they were arriving during the start of the turn phase this instruction would be redundant and unnecessary.

The fact that it's redundant doesn't mean anything.
It's a reminder more than anything else - that you can't move a unit out of the way and then move Reserves on.

I also love how you snipped part of my post out that addressed literally every word you typed in this one before you even typed it.

Do Reserves arrive on turn 4 at the same point in the turn that they do on turns 2 and 3? If you say no, be prepared to back up your answer with rules. I'd love an answer to this question.
Do Ongoing Reserves arrive at the same point in the turn as regular Reserves? If you say no, be prepared to back up your answer with rules. I'd love an answer to this question.

Regular reserves are rolled for in the start of turn phase, but arrive in the movement phase. Therefore the deep strike movement prohibition applies.

Blood Tithe summonings occur in the start of turn phase. The deepstrike movement prohibition does not apply (whether by intent or not I am not sure).

The assault prohibition will still apply.

FlingitNow wrote:
1) Whilst deploying by deepstrike am I arriving by deepstrike? Or have I already arrived by deepstrike prior to deploying by deepstrike?
5) So units that started the game in DS reserve AND daemons summoned by the blood tithe both arrive by Deepstrike during the start of the turn phase. Is that correct?

1) DSing FMCs are "arriving" (continuous present) until placed on (moving onto) on the board. Change of flight mode is declared at the start of this move. IF (not "when") they arrive (simple present) via DS reserve, FMCs always count as being in Swooping mode... until this change of modes.
5) the start of the turn is not a phase.

WarlordRob117 wrote:

 Nehekhare wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:


No opinions needed boss... thats what [I think what] the rules say

When it finally gets to the movement phase, it declares whether it is gliding or swooping, as it has permission to do so for the reason that it was on the table before the movement phase.

fixed that for you.

And that is what the rules really say:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare whether it is Swooping or Gliding until the start of its next turn." (BRB 68)

Why is it when doing this on the forum, they try to find the most condescending of trying to twist the argument?
I appreciate you attempting to fix something that didnt need to be fixed though.

Also, I fail to see how what you wrote is any different than what I wrote... I think I did a pretty good job at paraphrasing without having a BRB in front of me

maybe if you read your own post again, you'll be able to notice that you yourself did quite a good job at condescension, too.
If you read my response again, particularly the phrases marked in red, you may be able to notice, that there is indeed a difference: move does not equal movement phase - a unit can move onto the board from reserves, when running (shooting phase), when charging (assault phase) and sometimes even during the opponent's turn.

Regular reserves are rolled for in the start of turn phase, but arrive in the movement phase. Therefore the deep strike movement prohibition applies. 

Incorrect regular reserves arrive during the start of the turn phase. Check the reserves rules or read Rigeld's post.

 Nehekhare wrote:

5) the start of the turn is not a phase.

admittedly the start of turn is not called a phase, however..

"...an action or event happens 'at the start of your turn'. These are always resolved before your movement phase."