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rigeld2 wrote:

Cite the rule for changing flight modes please... verbatim...

It's been cited multiple times in this thread. And it's absolutely clear in the rulebook.
You change flight modes before your move. Which means you must be able to move to change flight modes.

Ok... so where does it say that you have to be able to move to change flight modes?

Where in the rules does it say explicitly "In order to change flight modes, from swooping to gliding, the model must be able to move"?

Especially since we've already established that deploying is not moving

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare..."

So, (Verbatim quote) you declare at the start of your move. When is this "move" ?

yeah this is pretty clear

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Cite the rule for changing flight modes please... verbatim...

It's been cited multiple times in this thread. And it's absolutely clear in the rulebook.
You change flight modes before your move. Which means you must be able to move to change flight modes.

Ok... so where does it say that you have to be able to move to change flight modes?

Where in the rules does it say explicitly "In order to change flight modes, from swooping to gliding, the model must be able to move"?

Especially since we've already established that deploying is not moving

... Wait, you're actually still on this?
So you haven't read the thread?

Talos covered the rules quote for you but again - it's been covered in the thread multiple times and I thought we were well past that by now.

 BlackTalos wrote:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare..."

So, (Verbatim quote) you declare at the start of your move. When is this "move" ?

can a model not move 0 inches?

Im pretty sure thats a thing... kinda like when a heavy weapon model moves 0 inches to be able to fire his heavy weapon at full BS

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare..."

So, (Verbatim quote) you declare at the start of your move. When is this "move" ?

can a model not move 0 inches?

Im pretty sure thats a thing... kinda like when a heavy weapon model moves 0 inches to be able to fire his heavy weapon at full BS

To have a start of a model's move, it must be able to move, agreed?

can a model not move 0 inches?

You can't start a move you never make ...
Heavy weapon models just don't move. If you move the model forward one inch, then back to where it was, it still moved 2".

The model is not allowed to move, therefore, it may not start (nor finish) a move.

Best make up the rules to support your case I have ever seen here - absolutely brilliant.

To be fair, the thread is getting quite long and i would not jump in now and read the whole 15 pages....

I'll try to sum up the RaW:

Flight modes:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare..."

So you must be able to move to changes Flight modes.


When does a Blood Thirster summoned by Blood tithe arrive?

a new unit under your control immediately arrives via Deep Strike within range of the specified unit(s) on the board

So "at the start of the Turn"


When does a Blood Thirster in Deep Strike Reserves arrive?

Arriving from Reserve
[Snip]If the roll is less than 3, it remains in Reserve and automatically arrives at the start of your fourth turn.

So "at the start of the Turn"


What restrictions do these models, who arrived by Deep Strike, have?

In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from (...).
In that turn’s Shooting phase, these units can fire (or Run, Turbo-boost or move Flat Out) as normal, and count (...)
In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn.

rigeld2 wrote:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare..."

So, (Verbatim quote) you declare at the start of your move. When is this "move" ?

can a model not move 0 inches?

Im pretty sure thats a thing... kinda like when a heavy weapon model moves 0 inches to be able to fire his heavy weapon at full BS

To have a start of a model's move, it must be able to move, agreed?

No I dont agree... so an immobolized vehicle has to move? A drop pod has to move? a sporocyte has to move?

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

"At the start of its move, a Flying Monstrous Creature must declare..."

So, (Verbatim quote) you declare at the start of your move. When is this "move" ?

can a model not move 0 inches?

Im pretty sure thats a thing... kinda like when a heavy weapon model moves 0 inches to be able to fire his heavy weapon at full BS

To have a start of a model's move, it must be able to move, agreed?

No I dont agree... so an immobolized vehicle has to move? A drop pod has to move? a sporocyte has to move?

Um. No? I never said that?
Immobilized vehicles don't move, so they never have a "start of the model's move".
If you can't move a model, it never has a "At the start of the model's move..." you can do something.

harkequin wrote:

can a model not move 0 inches?

You can't start a move you never make ...
Heavy weapon models just don't move. If you move the model forward one inch, then back to where it was, it still moved 2".

The model is not allowed to move, therefore, it may not start (nor finish) a move.

Why cant you? I've told my opponents plenty of times "this model is moving zero inches" unless it has to move like a flier.

Tanks, infantry do not have to move their full distance during the movement phase

Its still considered movement regardless of whether the model moved or not... thats why its called the movement phase

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

harkequin wrote:

can a model not move 0 inches?

You can't start a move you never make ...
Heavy weapon models just don't move. If you move the model forward one inch, then back to where it was, it still moved 2".

The model is not allowed to move, therefore, it may not start (nor finish) a move.

Why cant you? I've told my opponents plenty of times "this model is moving zero inches" unless it has to move like a flier.

Tanks, infantry do not have to move their full distance during the movement phase

Its still considered movement regardless of whether the model moved or not... thats why its called the movement phase

In your turn, you can move any of your units – all of them if you wish – up to their maximum movement distance.

You're never forced to move all of your units.

Note that you don’t have to move all (or any) of your units – indeed, there are several tactical advantages to remaining stationary, as we’ll explain later in the rules.

Reinforcing the fact that you don't have to move units.

That doesn't mean that models that can't move can be elected to move, and then do things like change flight modes. If you're forbidden from moving, you can't move.

 WarlordRob117 wrote:

harkequin wrote:

can a model not move 0 inches?

You can't start a move you never make ...
Heavy weapon models just don't move. If you move the model forward one inch, then back to where it was, it still moved 2".

The model is not allowed to move, therefore, it may not start (nor finish) a move.

Why cant you? I've told my opponents plenty of times "this model is moving zero inches" unless it has to move like a flier.

Tanks, infantry do not have to move their full distance during the movement phase

Its still considered movement regardless of whether the model moved or not... thats why its called the movement phase

Unfortunately that is completely incorrect...

You *could* say you're moving 0.001", but you ARE still moving.
Drop Pods cannot do so.
Blood Thirsters that arrived from Reserves or Blood Tithe cannot do so....

Why cant you? I've told my opponents plenty of times "this model is moving zero inches" unless it has to move like a flier.

If you move a model with a heavy weapon , it snap fires, regardless of how far you move it. You always have the option of NOT moving it. You don't have to move anything in your army, so the whole " a drop pod has to move" thing is what you are arguing, that a drop pod still has to move (0") despite it NOT being allowed to move. You're actually arguing against yourself here.

Looking elsewhere in regards to this discussion it looks like the general consensus is Khorne FMCs can switch to glide mode.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Looking elsewhere in regards to this discussion it looks like the general consensus is Khorne FMCs can switch to glide mode.

I'd definitely let them arrive in Glide mode. That's HIWPI, yeah.

But then there's also the RaW.

And those are usually not followed by "internet consensus", so the YMDC Forum exists. And that's where we're currently posting. So no, Khorne FMCs cannot switch to glide mode.

You're whole argument is based upon a really super nuisance of the rules.

The whole argument is based off RAW. No one here is trying to say how YOU should play it, just how the rules say. Houseruling is no problem if your flgs is okay with it, here it's just about what the rule book says.

Here, Technically correct is the best kind of correct, the letter of the law not the spirit.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
You're whole argument is based upon a really super nuisance of the rules.

Ok what is your argument? Why are they different to normal FMCs that arrive by Deepstrike from reserve?

Remembering they both arrive at the same time so the only differences are that you don't roll for reserves and you don't start in reserve. Why do those 2 things make a difference to when you can switch flight mode?

Dont start with that nonsense again. You are going on my I list as of now .