Miiiiiiiiiight grab some warmachine hordes, chat me up

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**Trapthem**

I cant decide betweeen skorne and menoth.

I have no idea about the actual game but they are somewhat similar yes?

Id like to know more about best caster warlock picks and personal preference, also, caster melee etc? I have no idea.

**Shas'O Dorian**

Hordes & Warmachine are completely compatible. The difference is whether or not you use focus or fury. Warmachine uses focus where you are given your focus every turn & assign it out to jacks (usually) up to 3 per jack. These focus points can be used to run, charge, buy extra attacks & add extra dice to attacks. Your caster uses it to cast spells, get extra attacks, add dice to attacks & damage, any extra adds to armour.

Thus Warmachine and Focus is RESOURCE MANAGEMENT. Yo you get your resource & must manage it properly. When you lose jacks it hurts but you get more focus to keep on your caster.

Hordes uses FURY. Your beasts are forced (given fury) to do all the things jacks use focus for. At the start of your turn your warlock pulls off FURY from your beasts up to his FURY stat. If any beast still has fury on it you do what is essentially a Ld test at -1 for each fury left on the beast. If you fail the best CANNOT be activated and it MUST attack / charge the nearest model (regardless of side) and MUST boost attack & damage rolls.

FURY doesn't add extra armour, rather you can transfer all damage you take onto a warbeast by spending a fury on your caster (provided the warbeast is NOT full on fury) note the damage is NOT reduced and does NOT go away it merely moves.

Thus hordes is RISK management. There are ways to mitigate risks but if you run too hot (force too mucch) you may lose control of your stuff for a turn.

I play skorne, I love skorne. As for best warlock, that general depends on playstyle & what your scenario / list is going for. That said eMorghul is generally subpar and used when you want a challenge.

As a skorne player, I'm going to punch you in the face, hard, repeatedly, until you die.

We don't really have fancy tricks or finesse tactics besides "See this thing? Do you see it? It hits like a truck. I'm going to make it hit HARDER and FASTER"

Sure zaal and mordikarr can get tricky, but even then it's still very much punch you in the face. Our units do exactly what you think they will do and they're quite good at it.

Skorne can run extremely beast heavy but do best in a combined arms style. Usually swordsmen / berserkers backed up by Incindiarii and a bronzeback.

Did I mention hitting like a truck? A bronzeback can kill a COLOSSAL/GARGANTUAN in one round & still not be full on fury. Of which we torture it's babies & use the agonized wails as a weapon.

So yea if you like roman legion style, samurai honour disciplined, torturous, god-killing (Seriously we killed our gods) dark elves/dark eldar, we're your ticket.

**motyak**

Obligatory "Whereabouts in Aus are you mate?" post, followed by Warmachine and Hordes facebook page;

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ozwmh/

And then echoing basically what Shas said above, since I'm so tired I can't actually entirely read what he said/write it up myself. Sorry. Fingers crossed he has the right of it ha

**Trapthem**

I was going to grab a protectorate of menoth all in one box for $150 AUD...

but then I read the god killing part of skorne and i think that just sold me haha (read the copy paste version of that in the other question threads)

Fluff wise and mini wise though I think im more keen on skorne... im guessing ebay is the only place to find that all in one box for them now?

Otherwise guess i'll find out the best place to start a skorne faction (or give up and buy the menoth box)

**Shas'O Dorian**

Yeah eBay is your best bet, I'd grab you one from my LGS but shipping to AUS is expensive.

**the_kraken**

I actually had the same conundrum last week: Protectorate or Skorne. I ended up buying both Battlegroups so I could drag a friend into WM/H with me.

**Trapthem**

Hahahaha I'm thinking about buying the protectorate all in one box and doing skorne later....

That looks like a pretty good deal for that price....

Then again... Cryx comes out next month.... or circle....

Goddamn it.

**the_kraken**

Trapthem wrote:

Then again... Cryx comes out next month.... or circle....

Goddamn it.

This.

**Trapthem**

Urgh, I legit have no idea now hahahhaa

I understand the systems a bit better but cant decide on an actual faction, everyone in my group has said skorne so far but after making two khorne beserker armies in my lfie i dont know if I can be fudged doing something so visually similar (although awesome).

I'm looking at circle pretty hard right now, the whole theme of being a bunch of angry low fi douchebags running around pissing off steam engines seems ok. Would also give me a chance to use some of my green paint... the beast minis dont wow me, but i really like the look of their infantry together, real solid theme going on.

Protectorate is still up there mainly because denying people and watching them rage is fun and because with a new airbrush im thinking some cool effects can be knocked off on those smooth jack surfaces.

Cryx would be all the contrast, all the OSL I could possibly muster haha. Its ok but I feel a little meh on painting a bunch of horror minis as I am currently churning through 11 malifaux crews ( I have 3 on order as well) so that has me sorted for a while.

The price of a skorne starter force, looking at battlegroup, some tokens (because why not

) beast handler unit, pain giver and bronzeback comes to the price of the entire protectorate all in one box for way less minis / points etc.

There is also cheaper legion of everblight boxes on ebay as well I could get for about the $150 mark as well...

Otherwise cryx and circle would be $140 in 4 weeks or so

Tough choices....

**the_kraken**

From what I understand, every faction does pretty good in it's own right. Go with the one that has the minis you like the most and learn to kick ass with it.

**Trapthem**

I cant decide... hahaha

Skorne have great beasts
Cryx I like their more unpopular stuff
Protectorate i enjoy their casters and units
Circle, i dont like the beasts but everything else is great

Boo.... hahaha

**the_kraken**

I also just accidentally won a Convergence battlegroup on eBay.

You could always play some games using proxies until you decide on a faction.

**Shas'O Dorian**

By not liking circle beasts do you not like the satyrs & wolves? What about the Wold (stone) constructs?

If you really don't like any of a factions beasts I'd avoid them. Beasts aren't something you can get away with not taking like Warjacks.

**Trapthem**

Currently deciding between skorne, cygnar, cryx, menoth

After talking to people what i thought i could get from circle was more cygnar.

Bit more reading to do i think

**Chute82**

Menoth commands you to buy the all in one box. Hope that helps

**Dais**

Welcome to warmachine and hordes, where codex creep is replaced by faction ADD.

**MWHistorian**

I'd go with Protectorate because I'm more biased towards Warmachine as opposed to Hordes....wait, that wasn't very helpful.

A more helpful suggestion. Read up on the fluff and see which stories inspire you more.

**the_kraken**

This post helped me a lot when I was making my decision.

Grey Templar wrote:
They're all good starting points for their factions, and all factions are well balanced overall. So really you should go with the faction you like the look and playstyle of.

Here is a rough breakdown of how the major factions play in general, although it doesn't apply to all lists they make.

Cygnar: All around combined arms faction, heavily reliant on use of mercenaries. Jacks have average armor, but above average mat and rat. They're generally fairly fast for jacks. Infantry are fairly squishy but have good offensive power. Slight shooting emphasis on the faction overall. Lots of lightning and electricity based spells and attacks.

Khador: Infantry focused faction, mostly on light and medium infantry. Typically only run 1 jack at most. Jacks are slow, heavily armored, and hit very hard. Although jacks are slow, many casters have spells that can increase speed to very fast levels. Heavy infantry do exist in Khador but they're generally subpar. The main focus being on Winterguard and Ironfang pikemen.

Protectorate: A synergistic combined arms faction heavily focused on denial and attrition. Most abilities involve buffing friendly troops or denying enemy abilities. Jacks are slow, slightly above average armor, and hit hard. Jacks are decidedly average, but the faction has many buffs for jacks including the ubiquitous Choir unit. They're a cheap support unit that sings hymns to protect jacks from spells or shooting or make them more powerful in combat. Faction has a lot of Weapon Master infantry, giving them lots of hard hitting power in melee. Not many good ranged infantry choices, at least long ranged anyway. Lots of fire based attacks and shooting, they set things on fire a lot.

Cryx: Another infantry faction, focused on hard hitting and fast, but squishy, infantry. Magic focuses on debuffing enemy models. Jacks are squishy, hard to hit, and very fast and hard hitting, but Cryx often only runs light jacks with Arc Nodes to help their casters cast their spells. They rarely have much focus to give their jacks. A focus on corrosion and soul/corpse collection. Many units either collect souls or corpses from fallen enemy models to power their attacks or even make new models. Casters are some of the more strong casters in the game as far as offensive magic is concerned.

Retribution: This faction is another combined arms faction, with some focus on shooting. They have some very strong ranged units and some good, durable, and hard hitting melee units. Jacks have good armor, but very low health. This is mitigated by many jacks have force fields of extra armor that can be recharged. Jacks almost all have good melee and ranged attacks and are fairly fast. The faction has many units and solos focused on assassinating enemy warcasters.

Convergence of Cyriss: This is the robot faction. They're all about internal synergy. They can run the most jacks of any faction due to their special rules allowing them to share focus and generate a lot of it for free. They also have lots of repairing and replacing of lost models. Jacks are slow, durable, and hard hitting. Mostly a buffing faction with a lot of quirky rules. Think of them as a massive rube-goldburg machine.

Trollbloods: This faction is all about the beef. All their basic infantry are on medium bases and have the Tough rule, which is basically a 1/3 chance to not die. Infantry are average speed, good damage output, and fairly durable. Elite infantry are downright obnoxious to try and kill. Warbeasts are expensive, durable, and hit like a freight train. Overall they focus on buffing their troops.

Skorne: A combined arms faction that can basically do it all. They can go warbeast heavy, they can go infantry heavy and do it better than another other hordes faction. Beasts are durable and hard hitting, they also have many speed buffs to mitigate the slow speed on many of their beasts. Infantry range from light and fast to hard hitting and slow.

Legion: A beast heavy faction with only average infantry. Beasts are fast, ignore most terrain, and hit hard, but they're fairly squishy. Beasts have a lot of abilities and special rules which has led to the joking moniker of "Legion of Everbroke" as they ignore tons of rules.

Circle: A faction of glass cannons. Warpwolves are the main beasts and they hit hard and are fast but squishy. They have support light beasts that can also deliver a punch. Infantry are fast, hard hitting, but generally squishy. They do have one class of beasts who are the opposite of the warpwolves, the Wolds are slow and durable but only have average damage output. Lots of their infantry have good ranged attacks while beasts are almost all melee only. Lots of teleportation and hit and run abilities in the faction.

Mercenaries and Minions are two subfactions which can be run as your main force but are mainly intended to supplement main factions.

Mercenaries are the best at running their own lists, minions struggle due to lack of options but the options they have are good. They have a lot of quirky rules and abilities.

**Shas'O Dorian**

Also http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com

That can give you a general overview but be warned don't take their words as gospel some of the tactics can range from great to just plain wrong, as in that is not how the rules work & you can't actually do that wrong.

**Trapthem**

Had a chat with a group last night and will be doing some intro games soon but...

I think I'm going with cygnar...

Main reason being I can get a solid force on the cheap at the moment and I went and had a look at a bunch of second hand skorne this morning and up close the beasts didn't float my boat as much.

I'm thinking i'm more keen on jacks for the hobby side of things. I always go melee heavy in most systems so im thinking i'll switch it up and was deciding between menoth, cygnar or cryx

Menoth was appealing but after having what I was looking at broken down I was a bit meh, plus there are 3 menoth armies in the group already.

One other guy had cryx and cygnar... and pretty much loses every game he plays haha

Main thing was I think cryx will bore me at the moment for hobby and cygnar had a real blank slate to them hobby wise so I might do something weird on them for fun.

Thinking i'll start with siege and maybe a nemo and pick things up here and there that will add to either. Pretty keen on a sentinel and thunderhead at some point actually.

**Shas'O Dorian**

Cygnar is a fine faction. Just don't get tunnel vision, a lot of mercenaries fill the holes in cygnar VERY well, so don't look solely inside your own book.

**the_kraken**

Not to mention some of the Merc Jacks look freaking sweet.

**Trapthem**

Maybe ill get a cryx box as well...

Bad idea? Or ok?

**motyak**

I'd really recommend picking one box to start, because you need to find out if you actually like how the game itself works, let alone if you like individual factions ha. Good luck.

**Trapthem**

Yeah I'd be looking at picking up two of the all in one army boxes.

Good resale value yeah?

Man... this restraint thing is hard... haha

Also, anyone up for giving some advice on merc choice for cygnar and maybe cryx?

**Shas'O Dorian**

Resale value on WM/H stuff is relatively low. Even unopened you're only likely to get 60-65% retail since many online retailers are base 30% off.

I'd stick with one for now. See if you like the game first. Remember there's no downside to waiting to pick up a second faction.

Also it's better you get a strong grasp on one faction than to jump between two & split your focus. I've been playing skorne on & off for 3 years and I'm just getting into ret.

**Tamwulf**

Trapthem wrote:
Maybe ill get a cryx box as well...

Bad idea? Or ok?

Learn the game, play lots. Figure out what you like, and don't like. For your second faction, DO NOT buy a whole army. Buy the warcaster/warlock you like, a couple models, and play around with that to see if you really like it or not.

I jumped into Legion as my 6th or 7th army?... and bought just about the entire model range that was available. Played with it for about 6 months, and discovered that I really only played with two of the warlocks, a couple of the warbeasts, etc. Basically, half the army sits in my bag while I play with only the stuff I like.

After you get the mechanics of the game down, decide what aspects of the game you really like and don't like, THEN you can start doing the research on other armies.

The best way to learn this game is to pick up a battlebox, play a bunch of Mangled Metal/Tooth and Claw, then step up to 25-35 points and play more games. Don't swap out models or especially Warcasters every time you play. Don't worry about losing- you will lose, A LOT. New players vs. experienced players will lose every game. This is very much a game of skill, where it's 80% player, 15% luck, and 5% army. The best player in the world with the "worst" army imaginable can destroy the novice with the "Most Powerful Net List".

After about 20-30 games and you start winning consistently, and you understand the strategy and tactics of you and your opponent, and you can make a strategy, follow through on it and win, and when you can understand why you won or lost (it's not always the dice...), that's when you can start swapping stuff out and expanding your army.

If you jump feet first into this game with a 50 point army and try and play in a Steamroller tournament, you will come in last place, be discouraged, and won't want to play this game ever again. :(

**Trapthem**

I guess my main reasoning for jumping straight into armies was these all in one boxes

so 35 points menoth is $135 for me at the moment (AUD), cryx comes out next month at $140 and i can get cygnar right now for $140 as well.

Looking at picking up a skorne start, a jack and a unit was about the same price for no where near as many minis...

I think having these box options be limited has made getting into the game harder for me instead of easier haha, if I knew they would still be obtainable I'd just pick one and go with it.

After doing a bunch of reading and taking some advice im thinking that cryx is pretty versatile, so maybe if I grab a cryx starter box and a unit I might like and go from there...

Otherwise my other option would be starter box for cryx or something and maybe grab a hordes one as well? See if I like focus or fury more?

**the_kraken**

Trapthem wrote:
I guess my main reasoning for jumping straight into armies was these all in one boxes

so 35 points menoth is $135 for me at the moment (AUD), cryx comes out next month at $140 and i can get cygnar right now for $140 as well.

Looking at picking up a skorne start, a jack and a unit was about the same price for no where near as many minis...

I think having these box options be limited has made getting into the game harder for me instead of easier haha, if I knew they would still be obtainable I'd just pick one and go with it.

After doing a bunch of reading and taking some advice im thinking that cryx is pretty versatile, so maybe if I grab a cryx starter box and a unit I might like and go from there...

Otherwise my other option would be starter box for cryx or something and maybe grab a hordes one as well? See if I like focus or fury more?

That was sort of my thinking (as well as getting a friend into it with me) when I bought a Menoth and Skorne battlegroup.

**Shas'O Dorian**

If you're really set on 2 factions I'd grab a WM and a Hordes. That way you can try the different mechanics. The all in one deals are great, don't get me wrong, however don't buy into too many factions especially since, from hat I gather, you haven't even played yet.

True it may only be $135 but if you don't like the game now it's $270. With one each WM and H there are 2 differing styles giving you a better chance of liking one. But say you buy 2 WM boxes and don't like it, now you're out $270.

Buy something because you actually want it, not because it's on sale. Now if you have played & do want both, go for it. I'd just advise against getting too invested into something you still don't know about.