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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:18:03
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
Poland
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Hello, I'm new here!
I've noticed that some people are bashing the Leman Russ tank design.
I think that Leman Russ makes perfect sense looking from the perspective of development of technology. Military technology in Wh40k wasn't developing in conditions of humanity warring against itself. It was developed in response to a human empire expanding and encountering alien threats.
For example Predator was developed from Rhino as a fast assault tank in response to Ork threat. Predator was already largely invulnerable to Orkish weaponry.
I think that Leman Russ was also developed specifically to fight Orks which were probably the most common type of enemy encountered during exploration of the galaxy. It just needed a thick armour and lots of guns and be easy to manufacture and maintain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:25:44
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Bro do you even tank? The Leman Russ is a singularity of utter stupidity in armor design. It lacks suspension. It has sponsons build into the armor. Its clearance is a joke. Its engine block appears to be barely armored. The tank is utterly cramped and severely limits the amount of ammunition that can be stored inside. Its profile is utterly ridiculous and makes it stick out like a sore thumb. Its barely slope armor is just going to take the fearsome A-T weapons of 40K head on rather than deflecting them away.
There is NEVER a reason to make a tank with a high profile and little sloped armor, ESPECIALLY in 40k. With how dangerous plasma, rockets, railguns, etc all are, you want thick sloped armor to give the maximum amount of armor between you and that shot as possible.
Oh, and then there's how the Leman Russ is just a DAOT tractor. It isn't even a tank.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:36:44
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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It lacks suspension.
It doesnt. It just doesnt have alot of travel.
It's a slightly advanced WW1 design. most of IG inspiration comes from WW1 and WW2. So it makes sense that it doesnt look like a modern day MBT.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/28 18:40:09
40k - IW: 3.2k; IG: 2.7k; Nids: 2.5k; FB - WoC: 5k; FB-DE: 5k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:40:05
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
north of nowhere
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Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:Hello, I'm new here!
I've noticed that some people are bashing the Leman Russ tank design.
I think that Leman Russ makes perfect sense looking from the perspective of development of technology. Military technology in Wh40k wasn't developing in conditions of humanity warring against itself. It was developed in response to a human empire expanding and encountering alien threats.
For example Predator was developed from Rhino as a fast assault tank in response to Ork threat. Predator was already largely invulnerable to Orkish weaponry.
I think that Leman Russ was also developed specifically to fight Orks which were probably the most common type of enemy encountered during exploration of the galaxy. It just needed a thick armour and lots of guns and be easy to manufacture and maintain.
Welcome to dakka!
As stated, the LRBT is actually an armored tractor, it was not intended to be a MBT when it was conceived. It also draws a lot of inspiration from WWI era tanks, with the sponson guns and being very tall with little sloping. Its design is very impratical, even if orks were their main threat during the expansion. Although afaik, leman russ tanks date to the GC time, so they were actually used after human kind had expanded its borders and during the time the Emperor was reuniting all of humanity. Not to mention the tank design looks fairly awkward if you add on the sponson guns, it reminds me of a russian t-28 tank. Not to mention the cannon is supposed to be what a 105 or 120mm? yet its larger than a similar scale 152mm KV-2 cannon, by a great margin. Its just such an impratical design.Its extremely tall, comically oversized weapons, and it has a hard time convincing anyone it can do its job.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:44:43
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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comically oversized weapons, and it has a hard time convincing anyone it can do its job.
I think thats more to do with 40k miniature hero scale. The figure for the caliber is very old (it's supposedly 120mm btw).
If we scale it down to 120mm, it actually looks like a real tank turret from WW2.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/28 18:45:58
40k - IW: 3.2k; IG: 2.7k; Nids: 2.5k; FB - WoC: 5k; FB-DE: 5k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:45:03
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Keep wrote: It lacks suspension.
It doesnt. It just doesnt have alot of travel.
It's a slightly advanced WW1 design. most of IG inspiration comes from WW1 and WW2. So it makes sense that it doesnt look like a modern day MBT.
No, it definitely lacks suspension, or at least what we'd consider suspension in a modern tank. The track is drawn like the tank is straight out of WWI, same with the Land Raider.
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“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 18:47:55
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Forgeworld cutaway shows that it has a suspension.
There are better tank models and suspension, clearly, but its still an improvement over WW1. And it only goes 35kph topspeed on roads.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/28 18:48:58
40k - IW: 3.2k; IG: 2.7k; Nids: 2.5k; FB - WoC: 5k; FB-DE: 5k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 19:25:14
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
The Internet- where men are men, women are men, and kids are undercover cops
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Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:Hello, I'm new here!
I've noticed that some people are bashing the Leman Russ tank design.
I think that Leman Russ makes perfect sense looking from the perspective of development of technology. Military technology in Wh40k wasn't developing in conditions of humanity warring against itself. It was developed in response to a human empire expanding and encountering alien threats.
For example Predator was developed from Rhino as a fast assault tank in response to Ork threat. Predator was already largely invulnerable to Orkish weaponry.
I think that Leman Russ was also developed specifically to fight Orks which were probably the most common type of enemy encountered during exploration of the galaxy. It just needed a thick armour and lots of guns and be easy to manufacture and maintain.
You're right. So long as you don't compare it to tanks fielded by Necrons, Tau, or Eldar, sure, it's an ok design.
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Jon Garrett wrote:Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.
"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."
"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"
"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."
"...Kunnin'." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 20:18:15
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Master Shaper
Gargant Hunting
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Gets a bit better once the orks get to looting it
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Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 20:28:42
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
Poland
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Wyzilla wrote:Bro do you even tank? The Leman Russ is a singularity of utter stupidity in armor design. It lacks suspension. It has sponsons build into the armor. Its clearance is a joke. Its engine block appears to be barely armored. The tank is utterly cramped and severely limits the amount of ammunition that can be stored inside. Its profile is utterly ridiculous and makes it stick out like a sore thumb. Its barely slope armor is just going to take the fearsome A-T weapons of 40K head on rather than deflecting them away. There is NEVER a reason to make a tank with a high profile and little sloped armor, ESPECIALLY in 40k. With how dangerous plasma, rockets, railguns, etc all are, you want thick sloped armor to give the maximum amount of armor between you and that shot as possible.
Except that like most of vehicles, Leman Russ is a relic. Predator's light armour was already good enough against most Ork weapons. Leman Russ didn't need sloped armour when it was invented because it was designed for fighting hordes of aggressive subhumans and their ramshackle vehicles. It just needed to be big and mean and exist in large numbers. When it comes to being cramped, I suspect that when they designed it for Space Marine, the Lascannon sponsons and possibly the turret were automated just like in Predator. Also, it's a very big tank. It's possible that it isn't that cramped. Wyzilla wrote:Oh, and then there's how the Leman Russ is just a DAOT tractor. It isn't even a tank. AFAIK the tractor thing is an internet myth. Never seen anyone give a source for it. I think a better explanation would be that Leman Russ was for manufacturing in greater numbers than Predators and Land Raiders for beating large Ork incursions. Thatguyhsagun wrote:As stated, the LRBT is actually an armored tractor, it was not intended to be a MBT when it was conceived. It also draws a lot of inspiration from WWI era tanks, with the sponson guns and being very tall with little sloping. Its design is very impratical, even if orks were their main threat during the expansion.
Fighting orks would be much more similar to WWI than WWII and later conflicts. Thatguyhsagun wrote:Although afaik, leman russ tanks date to the GC time, so they were actually used after human kind had expanded its borders and during the time the Emperor was reuniting all of humanity.
From what I understand, weirdo heavy tanks like Malcador and Leman Russ were brought back when Imperial Army lost access to Land Raiders and Predators. Thatguyhsagun wrote:Not to mention the tank design looks fairly awkward if you add on the sponson guns, it reminds me of a russian t-28 tank. Not to mention the cannon is supposed to be what a 105 or 120mm? yet its larger than a similar scale 152mm KV-2 cannon, by a great margin. Its just such an impratical design.Its extremely tall, comically oversized weapons, and it has a hard time convincing anyone it can do its job.
120mm. For some reason the battle cannon is water-cooled. Interwar designs like T-28 were created for a repeat of WWI where the main enemy of tanks would be masses of infantry, automatic weapons and occasional artillery, not lots of AT guns and tanks. Keep wrote:comically oversized weapons, and it has a hard time convincing anyone it can do its job.
I think thats more to do with 40k miniature hero scale. The figure for the caliber is very old (it's supposedly 120mm btw). If we scale it down to 120mm, it actually looks like a real tank turret from WW2. 
Except for the centred hatch.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/28 20:35:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 20:36:06
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:When it comes to being cramped, I suspect that when they designed it for Space Marine, the Lascannon sponsons and possibly the turret were automated just like in Predator. Also, it's a very big tank. It's possible that it isn't that cramped.
Mockup for real human scale, with FW (main)armor thickness and 150mm rounds (to fit the miniature model better), Ammo load like described in IA:1
  
Not too much space, not too cramped (remember, personal gear, other equipment and secondary ammo+ ammo for sponsons still needs to go in there)
Except for the centred hatch.
That's correct... on the realistic scale model there is more space, so it could go back (on the real model there is barely any space so it's centered for optical reasons basically)
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/28 20:46:28
40k - IW: 3.2k; IG: 2.7k; Nids: 2.5k; FB - WoC: 5k; FB-DE: 5k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 20:38:28
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Hardened Veteran Guardsman
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Well, there are few points about it:
1. The origin of the STC template. LR was originally just a tractor, but it was later turned into a tank due to it's high engine output and ease of manufacture.
2. It's main intended role is infantry support, not tank battle. That's why it looks like a child of Mark V and M4 Sherman.
3. The model was made to resemble the WW1/2 echo the Guard has. Also, remember that GW sculptors aren't engineers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 21:22:58
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
Poland
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Finlandiaperkele wrote:Well, there are few points about it:
1. The origin of the STC template. LR was originally just a tractor, but it was later turned into a tank due to it's high engine output and ease of manufacture.
Source, please?
Keep wrote: Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:When it comes to being cramped, I suspect that when they designed it for Space Marine, the Lascannon sponsons and possibly the turret were automated just like in Predator. Also, it's a very big tank. It's possible that it isn't that cramped.
Mockup for real human scale, with FW (main)armor thickness and 150mm rounds (to fit the miniature model better), Ammo load like described in IA:1
  
Not too much space, not too cramped (remember, personal gear, other equipment and secondary ammo+ ammo for sponsons still needs to go in there)
Chapter Approved 2004 claims that it's a 120mm smootbore gun. Hull has width of 4,86m. I think the interior width would be about 3m and height about 2m?
This cut-out shows sponson crew but no loaders:
It also lists an autoloader.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/28 21:28:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 21:33:20
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
north of nowhere
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Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:
When it comes to being cramped, I suspect that when they designed it for Space Marine, the Lascannon sponsons and possibly the turret were automated just like in Predator. Also, it's a very big tank. It's possible that it isn't that cramped.
In the Black Library novel Hammer of the Emperor, there is a story called Gunheads about an IG tank company, and supposedly they have gunners inside the sponsons/the sponsons have room for gunners to sit outside the tanks main body. This is noted numerous times in the book, most notably the sponson gunmen actually enter/exit the tank through hatches in the sponsons. It always seemed silly to me the writer chose to portray the sponsons manned as if the tank were a superheavy (all guns are manned individually by separate crewmen) but also to the point he made them into what amounts to armored pillboxes on the side of the tank. Its the only fluffpiece about guard Leman Russ tanks in any true detail. In the same book theres a short stint about a tank commander in a Russ, but its sponsonless. Most of the IG pieces ive read are the Gaunts Ghosts series and they dont use LRBT's. So not too sure how cannon it is, but apparently there are literally guys who hang outside the main body of the tank to fire the sponsons. They seem to die an awful lot in the book, and to minor things like landmines or flamers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 21:34:51
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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That's a Demolisher if you haven't noticed. FW: IA lists Leman Russ and Demolisher to have loaders. But thanks for the picture, haven't seen that one before. Definitely interesting.
Chapter Approved 2004 claims that it's a 120mm smootbore gun
I know, but since the diameter is so extremely different to the visual model it's a better fit. And remember - this artwork is a) extremely old and b) someone just drew it on a paper. That doesnt mean it's going to work in 3D (look at the shells and then at the cannon... that just doesnt fit.) I oriented mine on the FW leman russ cutout sideview. If you look at the chimera cutout from the same author, that's also horribly outdated and doesnt match up with the FW interior cutout, which looks far more believable. I wanted to work out how an actual Leman Russ could be realistically, because those sizes and figures are all basically made up from thin air. Particulary the dimensions of the thing.
About sources: In Double Eagle there are also some sections about the Leman Russ, but not in too much detail. Ghaunts Ghosts i remember mentioning of Conqueror tanks fighting against inferior local tanks. It was in the book where they want to save the shrine (completely forgot the name...)
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This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/04/28 21:44:51
40k - IW: 3.2k; IG: 2.7k; Nids: 2.5k; FB - WoC: 5k; FB-DE: 5k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 23:18:46
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
north of nowhere
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Keep wrote:
About sources: In Double Eagle there are also some sections about the Leman Russ, but not in too much detail. Ghaunts Ghosts i remember mentioning of Conqueror tanks fighting against inferior local tanks. It was in the book where they want to save the shrine (completely forgot the name...)
The Pardus Armored, on the shrineworld of Hagia, in the book The Saint (think thats the omnibus name, its the first story). They go into absolutely zero detail about the tanks which is disappointing, and apparently conqueror battle cannons (S7) have an easy time tearing through most heavy armor in the book, as at one point the pardus kill 55 ish tanks in a head-to-head fight, losing about a quarter of that in return, and overall account for more than a hundred tank kills to the 20ish conquerors, 2 Destroyers and an Executioner. I found that amusing since it can hardly scratch medium armor on TT,
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 23:23:16
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Being an Officer in the Armor Branch of the Army sort of forces me to have a very negative view of the Leman Russ. It's quite clear to me that it was designed by someone who has no idea how a tank works or is intended to work. Neither do any of the writers of the fiction.
In the end though, it really doesn't matter and I hesitate to rail too hard against the thing. I don't expect someone to know the ins and outs of a very complicated piece of military hardware, and the Leman Russ is is very clearly designed to emulate the first British tanks from World War I- which was a terrible terrible battle tank, and used instead as a mobile-cover-line-breaker.
However, that doesn't excuse the fact that the thing would not work anywhere except a flat field. And even then it better be dry, or else that thing is sinking right in the mud and becoming mostly immobile.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 23:23:19
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Cramped? You must have never seen a T-34. LR is like a ballroom on tracks  For being a WW1, WW2 style tank, the LR is actually pretty good. Better than Sherman, T-34 or Pz.Kpfw. IV. (okay, we might need to cover the tracks a bit more though) Also, isn't the LR made out of magic space metal? Maybe that material is so strong sloped armour is not necessary.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/28 23:24:07
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 23:29:44
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
Poland
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Thatguyhsagun wrote:In the Black Library novel Hammer of the Emperor, there is a story called Gunheads about an IG tank company, and supposedly they have gunners inside the sponsons/the sponsons have room for gunners to sit outside the tanks main body. This is noted numerous times in the book, most notably the sponson gunmen actually enter/exit the tank through hatches in the sponsons. It always seemed silly to me the writer chose to portray the sponsons manned as if the tank were a superheavy (all guns are manned individually by separate crewmen) but also to the point he made them into what amounts to armored pillboxes on the side of the tank. Its the only fluffpiece about guard Leman Russ tanks in any true detail. In the same book theres a short stint about a tank commander in a Russ, but its sponsonless. Most of the IG pieces ive read are the Gaunts Ghosts series and they dont use LRBT's. So not too sure how cannon it is, but apparently there are literally guys who hang outside the main body of the tank to fire the sponsons. They seem to die an awful lot in the book, and to minor things like landmines or flamers.
Sponsonless tanks have a hatch in place of sponsons, so it's possible that gunners are actually in sponsons. Ouch.
Keep wrote:That's a Demolisher if you haven't noticed. FW: IA lists Leman Russ and Demolisher to have loaders.
Looks like stuff keeps getting downgraded technologically.
Keep wrote:I know, but since the diameter is so extremely different to the visual model it's a better fit. And remember - this artwork is a) extremely old and b) someone just drew it on a paper. That doesnt mean it's going to work in 3D (look at the shells and then at the cannon... that just doesnt fit.) I oriented mine on the FW leman russ cutout sideview. If you look at the chimera cutout from the same author, that's also horribly outdated and doesnt match up with the FW interior cutout, which looks far more believable. I wanted to work out how an actual Leman Russ could be realistically, because those sizes and figures are all basically made up from thin air. Particulary the dimensions of the thing.
Gun diameter on the model is more like 240mm. The original Space Marine Leman Russ model had a smaller barrel sticking out of the coolant shroud.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/28 23:34:21
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Iron_Captain wrote:Cramped? You must have never seen a T-34. LR is like a ballroom on tracks  For being a WW1, WW2 style tank, the LR is actually pretty good. Better than Sherman, T-34 or Pz.Kpfw. IV. (okay, we might need to cover the tracks a bit more though) Also, isn't the LR made out of magic space metal? Maybe that material is so strong sloped armour is not necessary. I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks. Then again I'm perfectly willing to just chalk it up to magic space metal as it seems to be the only way it makes sense
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/28 23:35:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 00:04:07
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Ignatius wrote: Iron_Captain wrote:Cramped? You must have never seen a T-34. LR is like a ballroom on tracks
For being a WW1, WW2 style tank, the LR is actually pretty good. Better than Sherman, T-34 or Pz.Kpfw. IV. (okay, we might need to cover the tracks a bit more though)
Also, isn't the LR made out of magic space metal? Maybe that material is so strong sloped armour is not necessary.
I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
Then again I'm perfectly willing to just chalk it up to magic space metal as it seems to be the only way it makes sense 
Well, it is much larger than WW2 tanks, it can have a lascannon which would instantly blow up any WW2 tank, it has a huge gun that puts every WW2 tank to shame, it has advanced rangefinding and targetfinding equipment, it can run on any kind of fuel (extremely important) and its shape is not all that different from a Sherman tank either:
The only thing the Sherman has over the LR is better track design.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 00:11:07
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Iron_Captain wrote: Ignatius wrote: Iron_Captain wrote:Cramped? You must have never seen a T-34. LR is like a ballroom on tracks
For being a WW1, WW2 style tank, the LR is actually pretty good. Better than Sherman, T-34 or Pz.Kpfw. IV. (okay, we might need to cover the tracks a bit more though)
Also, isn't the LR made out of magic space metal? Maybe that material is so strong sloped armour is not necessary.
I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
Then again I'm perfectly willing to just chalk it up to magic space metal as it seems to be the only way it makes sense 
Well, it is much larger than WW2 tanks, it can have a lascannon which would instantly blow up any WW2 tank, it has a huge gun that puts every WW2 tank to shame, it has advanced rangefinding and targetfinding equipment, it can run on any kind of fuel (extremely important) and its shape is not all that different from a Sherman tank either:
The only thing the Sherman has over the LR is better track design.
Ah I see. Yes I agree with everything you say regarding the weaponry and such. For what it's worth I feel the same about the matchup as you, the Leman Russ would annihilate the Sherman simply because the Sherman could never hope to penetrate its armor with that tiny main cannon.
I misunderstood what you meant by better. I thought you meant the overall design was better, not combat capabilities. My apologies.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/29 00:11:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 00:18:12
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
Poland
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Ignatius wrote: Iron_Captain wrote:Cramped? You must have never seen a T-34. LR is like a ballroom on tracks
For being a WW1, WW2 style tank, the LR is actually pretty good. Better than Sherman, T-34 or Pz.Kpfw. IV. (okay, we might need to cover the tracks a bit more though)
Also, isn't the LR made out of magic space metal? Maybe that material is so strong sloped armour is not necessary.
I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
200mm turret armour, 200mm superstructure armour, 150mm hull armour, 120mm gun, lascannon, heavy bolters, multifuel power plant, auspex, targeters, life support?
Also, the original LR had very wide tracks.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/29 00:19:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 01:09:11
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Ignatius wrote:I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
Then again I'm perfectly willing to just chalk it up to magic space metal as it seems to be the only way it makes sense 
The Armor is very thick, even if we assume it's just steel it would be even superior to the Tiger II for the most part.
The cannon - well that could be argued. It's pretty short, so not alot of kinetic energy. It's kinda like the standard sherman or early T-34 and KV guns. Not really designed for Tank fights. Not the extremely long guns from mid/late German tanks for example. But for tank fights we have the long vanquisher cannons.
Speed and engine power are kinda on par with a Tiger Tank. According to FW the standard Hull Engine is called "HL230 V12 Multi-Fuel" sounds familiar? ... The Tiger I's engine was named "Maybach HL230 P45" (V12-petrol)".
However, i doubt that the weight would be accurate if you build that tank out of regular steel. It would be much heavier, because it is so large, has very thick armor etc. That's, i think, the only real magical thing about it
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/04/29 01:12:13
40k - IW: 3.2k; IG: 2.7k; Nids: 2.5k; FB - WoC: 5k; FB-DE: 5k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 01:46:18
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
north of nowhere
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Keep wrote: Ignatius wrote:I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
Then again I'm perfectly willing to just chalk it up to magic space metal as it seems to be the only way it makes sense 
The Armor is very thick, even if we assume it's just steel it would be even superior to the Tiger II for the most part.
The cannon - well that could be argued. It's pretty short, so not alot of kinetic energy. It's kinda like the standard sherman or early T-34 and KV guns. Not really designed for Tank fights. Not the extremely long guns from mid/late German tanks for example. But for tank fights we have the long vanquisher cannons.
Speed and engine power are kinda on par with a Tiger Tank. According to FW the standard Hull Engine is called "HL230 V12 Multi-Fuel" sounds familiar? ... The Tiger I's engine was named "Maybach HL230 P45" (V12-petrol)".
However, i doubt that the weight would be accurate if you build that tank out of regular steel. It would be much heavier, because it is so large, has very thick armor etc. That's, i think, the only real magical thing about it
Magic space metal that is lighter and stronger than steel. Unobtanium at its finest.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 01:47:25
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Aszubaruzah Surn wrote: Ignatius wrote: Iron_Captain wrote:Cramped? You must have never seen a T-34. LR is like a ballroom on tracks
For being a WW1, WW2 style tank, the LR is actually pretty good. Better than Sherman, T-34 or Pz.Kpfw. IV. (okay, we might need to cover the tracks a bit more though)
Also, isn't the LR made out of magic space metal? Maybe that material is so strong sloped armour is not necessary.
I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
200mm turret armour, 200mm superstructure armour, 150mm hull armour, 120mm gun, lascannon, heavy bolters, multifuel power plant, auspex, targeters, life support?
Also, the original LR had very wide tracks.
Keep wrote: Ignatius wrote:I'm curious about your thoughts regarding the Russ being better than the tanks you listed? From my understanding of them the Leman Russ design seems very much inferior too those you listed, and I'm not entirely sure I have read everything written about the Russ so it's very possible I've missed something. The only thing I can see that would equate the Russ to World War II tanks is the simple fact it has a turret- other than that the thing seems entirely designed off British Mark "X" tanks.
Then again I'm perfectly willing to just chalk it up to magic space metal as it seems to be the only way it makes sense 
The Armor is very thick, even if we assume it's just steel it would be even superior to the Tiger II for the most part.
The cannon - well that could be argued. It's pretty short, so not alot of kinetic energy. It's kinda like the standard sherman or early T-34 and KV guns. Not really designed for Tank fights. Not the extremely long guns from mid/late German tanks for example. But for tank fights we have the long vanquisher cannons.
Speed and engine power are kinda on par with a Tiger Tank. According to FW the standard Hull Engine is called "HL230 V12 Multi-Fuel" sounds familiar? ... The Tiger I's engine was named "Maybach HL230 P45" (V12-petrol)".
However, i doubt that the weight would be accurate if you build that tank out of regular steel. It would be much heavier, because it is so large, has very thick armor etc. That's, i think, the only real magical thing about it
Again... simply misunderstood what he meant, as I clarified in the post above these.
I still completely disagree that the tank passes as any sort of advanced or even capable piece of equipment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 01:58:13
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
north of nowhere
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Ignatius wrote:
I still completely disagree that the tank passes as any sort of advanced or even capable piece of equipment.
I dont see any lascannons lying around our military warehouses.. I dont deny that the tank itself is poorly designed and comically shaped, but the gear it mounts and what it has in it is a different story. Multi-meltas, lascannons, even heavy bolters would be amazingly powerful by modern standards and well above what we have now, and some of the equiptment must be comparable or better than what we have now. Auspex for example. It may be unreliable most times but its an amazingly advanced and complex piece of equipment
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 02:01:39
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Heroic Senior Officer
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The heavy bolter is meh, at best. The energy weapons are where its at.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 03:09:20
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Imperial Agent Provocateur
Poland
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Keep wrote:The Armor is very thick, even if we assume it's just steel it would be even superior to the Tiger II for the most part.
The cannon - well that could be argued. It's pretty short, so not alot of kinetic energy. It's kinda like the standard sherman or early T-34 and KV guns. Not the extremely long guns from mid/late German tanks for example.
It depends on what kind of ammunition it fires, though. I suspect that a 120mm krak shell would be pretty brutal. Also, HE shells used by the Imperium are ridiculously powerful with power of a 30x heavier modern shell.
Keep wrote:Speed and engine power are kinda on par with a Tiger Tank. According to FW the standard Hull Engine is called "HL230 V12 Multi-Fuel" ... The Tiger I's engine was named "Maybach HL230 P45" (V12-petrol)"
I had an impression that Leman Russ is supposed to be something like a Tiger (especially with the non-sloped armour). Looks like the authors had a similar impression  . It has one advantage over Tiger - it can run on coal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/29 07:16:56
Subject: So... Leman Russ
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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Yeah, it can run on any fuel it can burn. Promethium, diesel, kerosene, coal... if it burns, the Russ can roll.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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