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So in the 40k universe, gods are created by belief and actions of those believing in them.

Every single civilization that we know of has a smith-god (god of MACHINES). We can assume all of this worship created... something in the Warp.

Why hasn't the Dragon prevented the Machine-God's creation via it's mere existence? Because the Dragon cannot touch anything in the warp. If the Deciever and Nightbringer haven't eaten all of Tzeentch and Khorne's "soul energy" (because they're honestly the same thing as both of those gods, just shinier and older), then all of the souls and worship going to whereverthehelltheMGis have been creating something.

So where is the Machine-God? Has he yet to spawn?

I can assume the actions of quadrillions and the worship of trillions is enough to cause something.

Dragon is Omnissiah aka Machine God. No?

Like what BioVass said, the Dragon is more than likely the Machine God, and necrons even tried landing to do something with the Dragon (I don't remember the exact details, or if GW straight up said whether the Dragon is the Machine God or not. As far as I know it was heavily implied)

 Verviedi wrote:


So where is the Machine-God? Has he yet to spawn?

He's the Emperor.

 Verviedi wrote:
So in the 40k universe, gods are created by belief and actions of those believing in them..

I'm not too sure on this one.. This is the discworld way.. 40k isn't so nice.
"
Gods are fed by eating the souls of sentient creatures.. souls seem to have a "flavour" to them, governing to which god they get eaten.. Influenced but their actions and persona..

so.. yes a new machine god could be created... but..

nothing stops the big gods eating the small gods.. which is probably why the emperor set himself up to be worshipped as the machine god.. he gets the tasty Martian souls..

probably for the best, when you consider the destruction that the "birth" of Slannesh caused.

 Ketara wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:


So where is the Machine-God? Has he yet to spawn?

He's the Emperor.

The emperor is the Omnissiah, not the Machine God. The Omnissiah is the Herald of the Machine God, much like the Masque is the Herald of Slaanesh.

No, the Omnissiah is the Machine God. Officially, the Cult Mechanicus teaches that the Emperor is the physical manifestation of the Machine God, but it is no secret many AdMech think this is bs.

According to the wiki, the Omnissiah is the avatar of the machine god, which would be the Emperor, although many tech priests don't actually believe it (like what Captain said)

So, the Dragon is going to be the champion of the Emperor when Emps ascends to godhood?

Do I have that right?

The Dragon, unfortunately, is a C'Tan, which means it has no warp presence. That's like saying the Deciever is a champion of Tzeentch.

Yeah, the Deciever isn't Tzeentch's champion, just his poker buddy.

Every Thursday, the Deceiver, Tzeentch, Eldrad, Creed, and the Emperor all gather and bet the fate of the universe on a poker game.

It's common knowledge.

The C'Tan cannot enter the Warp. At all. It is pure anathema to them.

There was a bit of fluff in the first necron codex , where abaddons sorceror was telling him. That daemons were getting uppity because something on Mars was eating people and discarding the souls.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
There was a bit of fluff in the first necron codex , where abaddons sorceror was telling him. That daemons were getting uppity because something on Mars was eating people and discarding the souls.

That is a really cool bit of fluff

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No, the Omnissiah is the Machine God. Officially, the Cult Mechanicus teaches that the Emperor is the physical manifestation of the Machine God, but it is no secret many AdMech think this is bs.

you're both right. there's actually a schisim among the preisthood of Mars as to weather the emperor was mearly a hearld or a god himself the skitarii (or is it cult mechanius) codex states this. and notes it's a point of contention that COULD one day boil over and spark a civil war

The Orestes Incident involved it boiling over.
I personally believe that Empy is the Herald, not the God himself.

.. If you haven't read Mechanicum.. I suggest you do. It explains very clearly the origins of the Dragon and the legend of the Ommnissiah.

I have read Mechanicum.

The thing is, entities in the Warp aren't fed by beliefs or worship, but by EMOTIONS. That's why I don't think a tech-god is terribly likely. What does a machine god have to do with, primal emotions on a grand scale? Sure, you can be angry your machine doesn't work, but then you're feeding a god of anger (Khorne). You can feel satisfied with your cleverness with machines, but then you're probably feeding Tzeentch or Slaanesh. A machine-god as a Warp entity just doesn't make sense.

Inspiration and innovation, possibly?

There's already a Warp god of inspiration and innovation. His name is Tzeentch.

 fallinq wrote:
There's already a Warp god of inspiration and innovation. His name is Tzeentch.

This is truth. One might also consider Slaanesh, the God of Perfection, to be a related god when it comes to the concepts of the artistic muse.

God of butts

does butt related things.

That would be Nurgle, no?

 Psienesis wrote:
That would be Nurgle, no?

Or slannesh.

edit: damnit wait i really should stop.

Annnnnd I just realised what a terrible idea this thread was. The realization is truly shocking, honestly.

 Desubot wrote:
God of butts

does butt related things.

Mechandendrites are not for that, Desubot. Stop asking.

Annnnnd I just realised what a terrible idea this thread was. The realization is truly shocking, honestly.

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.

I think there was an order of the inquisition. Ordo hydrus maybe that was going to unite all humans under one hive mind. but they were stopped by a tag team of ordo hereticus and malleus inquisitors.

Their reasoning being that it would create the fith chaos god. that would be a cool thing to see.

Also maybe one of the reasons that the admech don't have a warp born god is because if you look at the necron codex 5th edition you see that machines don't have any warp presence. and unless the fluff has been changed i think most admech people modify themselves to the point of machine-hood. thus no warp presence. who knows?

Warp physics is on GW's list of fifty-million things to do right above explaining 40k human physiology and below remembering to make a new model for saint celestine

Exalting this thread, because the last couple of posts just made me crack up non-stop for a good half a minute.

I recently re-read Mechanicum, I don't think it ever stated clearly and definitively what the Dragon was/its origins, or Noctis Labyrinthus.

Also, I still don't know I buy into the lore-additions of the Star Child, Illuminati kidnap Emprah-Sensei-Children, Ordo Hydra, etc. It's all a bit too.. weird and not 40k grimdark-like.

Machines and whether they actually have souls or not is something that GW hasn't fully explained either (whether machine spirits are actually spirits or semi-sentient AI). Though, is a spirit the same thing as a soul? Servitors have organic parts so they aren't true AI like the Iron Men were (i.e. have souls), but then a bolter or suit of power armor isn't at all biological yet has a machine spirit.

Hrm. The finer points of 40k philosophy, lovin' it.

Addendum:
There is also nothing stating this, but it's entirely possible that there are even higher powers than the C'tan and Star Gods that created them, because after all, where's was the chicken that laid the egg?

 Enigwolf wrote:
Exalting this thread, because the last couple of posts just made me crack up non-stop for a good half a minute.

I recently re-read Mechanicum, I don't think it ever stated clearly and definitively what the Dragon was/its origins, or Noctis Labyrinthus.

Also, I still don't know I buy into the lore-additions of the Star Child, Illuminati kidnap Emprah-Sensei-Children, Ordo Hydra, etc. It's all a bit too.. weird and not 40k grimdark-like.

Machines and whether they actually have souls or not is something that GW hasn't fully explained either (whether machine spirits are actually spirits or semi-sentient AI). Though, is a spirit the same thing as a soul? Servitors have organic parts so they aren't true AI like the Iron Men were (i.e. have souls), but then a bolter or suit of power armor isn't at all biological yet has a machine spirit.

Hrm. The finer points of 40k philosophy, lovin' it.

Addendum:
There is also nothing stating this, but it's entirely possible that there are even higher powers than the C'tan and Star Gods that created them, because after all, where's was the chicken that laid the egg?

Yeah the star child is a bit "deus es machina" for 40k but the ordo Hydra is still an interesting plot piece. It could be that machine spirits have a negative warp presence like the Cullexus assassin, sisters of silence, pariah gene carrying people. They all have a warp presence but it is a void rather than a flame.

Personally i think the old ones created the C'tan.

Warhammer 40k, teaching your kids philosophy and moral debate since 2000.