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High Lords of Terra and Imperial Citizens,

The general accepted universal truth is that all Xenos are worthless filth without exception. Xenos, even intelligent and "advanced" (in their own twisted way) races such as the craftworld Eldar or the space-trading Demurig despite their heretical technology and so-called art and culture have nothing to offer humanity. Even greater is that all Xenos are a clear and direct threat to humanity and should be exterminated on sight. This is not "murder" even of Xenos civilians, woman, and children as Xenos by their very definition are inhuman or more accurately sub-human and therefore cannot be considered "a real person". It is akin to more like slaughtering pigs or animals - Tau or Eldar might display sophisticated human-like self-determination. human-like art, culture, trade, and diplomacy but it is a lie and they cannot be considered to have real human behaviour as by definition they are inhuman.

All "inalienable" rights such as that of existence comes from the divine holy Emperor - that much is not in question - hence the irrefutable logic that Xenos have no right to live since their rights do not come from the Emperor. Hence the IoM systematic extermination of Xenos races in the Milky Way galaxy within their power as the Emperor himself envisioned it - the final solution. It is also not in question that Xenos pose a clear and direct threat to the Imperium esp. Tyranid creatures and Chaos Daemonic entities and the fallen humans that worship them which is why they must be exterminated but even more allegedly peaceful Xenos such as the craftworld Eldar and Tau systems should also be exterminated or the very least enslaved to use their labour or for very least for later controlled managed extermination.

However.

How do you answer the question that the Xenos existed BEFORE the Emperor? If all rights come from the emperor than who gave those rights before the Emperor was born? Does that not imply that there was a creator of the universe before the emperor and the Xenos were created by the creator just like humanity? I am not questioning the Emperor's holy divinity but that the Xenos may have an equal right to existence given to them by someone else. Hence, if we accept they have the right to exist we should conclude that the Imperium does not need to go out of our way to exterminate them as Xenos have at the bare minimum the same right to exist as animals and non-sentient beings. Animals such as pigs or goats are farmed and cultivated for human benefit (and consumption) in this fashion I believe we enslave the Xenos or at least the ones that are enslavable (such as Eldar, Tau, Vespids, Demurig, Kroot) as opposed to the uncontrollable ones (such as Orks, Tyranids, Necrons) to make life better for humanity. Instead of extermination fleets we should send out slaver fleets to Tau/Kroot/Exodite Eldar worlds and force them to serve humanity. Call me a humanist for sparing the Xenos.

Of course at your own risk, then there is the discussion that Xenos actually have EQUAL rights to humanity. This is a clear violation of the Imperial Cult and the inquisition will be extremely interested in your opinion should you choose to question the supremacy of humanity and humanitarianism. If we accepted this revolutionary concept then we must conclude we can work, trade, and even live with other Xenos that does not pose a direct immediate threat to us such as the Eldar, Tau, etc. That means we could even work together against our common enemies while of course being on the lookout for any Xenos betrayal. This is extremely heretical.

The plain truth is that going after non-immediate threatening Xenos such as random craftworlds (which are heavily defended and extremely hard/impossible to catch) or attacking Demurig tradeships at random or attacking otherwise peaceful Kroot planets for the sole and only purpose of exterminating them is an extreme drain on resources and obviously the Xenos will retaliate against Imperial aggression. Killing/Exterminating for its own sake is an end in and of itself - this is not blood for the blood god. We are not Chaos Daemon worshippers. This simple fact alone I feel means we should at least leave the somewhat peaceful Xenos the feth alone and focus on the clearly and immediately dangerous ones such as the Tyranids,.

Thoughts?

Slap some cuffs in my wrists, but if we were to work with xenos for a greater cause, we could conquer the big hitters like nids and chaos a whole lot easier. Does this mean let them go unpunished for crimes against humanity? No, let them hang if they try and fight us, but a more tau based approach of peace first, then shooting could be useful.

 2BlackJack1 wrote:
Slap some cuffs in my wrists, but if we were to work with xenos for a greater cause, we could conquer the big hitters like nids and chaos a whole lot easier. Does this mean let them go unpunished for crimes against humanity? No, let them hang if they try and fight us, but a more tau based approach of peace first, then shooting could be useful.

Once humanity tackles the Tyranids and Chaos we could always exterminate the Tau and Eldar afterwards too if we decide to. We would have used them for humanity that way.

An amenable xeno is a sentient resource... Potential information, learnable strengths and even more expendable than guardsmen.

There's also the saying, "The enemy of my enemy..."

I say keep them around. Xenotech is far superior to standard Imperial tec-

Hey, who's that at the door?

From an objective point of view, races like Eldar and Tau would be better as allies than enemies.

In 40k, though, that would not work in the long run. The Imperium is the way it is for a reason.

Using them is one thing but this discussion is about if they have the right to exist on a philosophical sense.

HERESY

Humanity doesn't have the time or the resources to accurately assess the intentions of xenos. Their true nature could lie hidden by deceit, or change over time. Zero tolerance is truly the only way to guarantee safety.

For every potential xenos ally, there is one that would destroy, enslave, or consume. Make no mistake, even the so called 'civilized' Eldar would sacrifice every man, woman, and child before one of their own. The Tau would slaughter us for not bending the knee to their twisted castes.

The ONLY priority a human should have is the survival and prosperity of their fellow humans. If humanity dies, EVERYTHING humans ever accomplished would be for NOTHING. This is unnacceptable. Our right to survival has been bought with the blood of countless heroes and innumerable martyrs, it is more valuable than all xenos species combined. Humanity thrives because of her vigilance.

Let us take a similar stance as the 'wise' Eldar, then, and crush every single xenos before risking a single one of our brothers and sisters.

Purge the alien.

EDIT: What qualifies as a xenos? Would a livestock equivalent from planet s8r4-567 count and require purging? Just curious how the Imperium classifies foreign life.

Suffer not the Xenos to live. Trust in the Emperor's light and believe in the IoM. All else is Heresy!

I don't think you will be arrested by the Inquisition.

I think 'Executed' is a much better term.

Still voted.

Which Xenos encountered thus far has not attempted to harm humanity?
The Eldar (both kinds) despise and kill/enslave humans.
The Necrons want to eradicate humans.
The Tyranids want to eat humans.
The Tau and their allies want to assimilate and rule over humans.
The Orks want to fight humans.

In short, no race of Xenos has any desire to peacefully coexist with humanity, they all desire either our demise or slavery. Furthermore, while one might object that these are all large xenos civilizations bear in mind the example of the Tau, who grew from an insignificant stone-age culture to a threatening empire that is now at war with the Imperium of Man, a war they started. Until a Xenos race is encountered that desires to serve Man, then all should be assumed hostile and exterminated lest an oversight grow into a mortal threat.

Steal their gak, figure out how it works. Kill 'em all once you do that. Rinse, wash, and repeat.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
I don't think you will be arrested by the Inquisition.

I think 'Executed' is a much better term.

Still voted.

Depends on a lot of factors.
Which inquisition, what you're doing with this viewpoint, and who you are to begin with.

Rogue Traders for example, have freedom to trade with xenos in some sectors.
If you're an average imperial citizen standing in the street explaining to others how xenos would be great friends, on the other hand...

Philosophically speaking, they should be left alone until they attack human holdings.

Practically speaking, that would change nothing, because those little green bastards are constantly attacking human holdings and need to be taught a lesson.

What Xenos?

*shoots kommando using purple kamopaint*

I see only humans.

To be Unclean; That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Impure; That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Abhorred; That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Reviled; That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Hunted; That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Purged; That is the fate of the Xenos
To be Cleansed; For that is the fate of all Xenos

Not taking into account silly emotions and delusions like the "right to life" of sentient life (no such thing exists), aliens, if ever encountered, would be considered competition for our niche unless they were so wholly alien that our ecosystems and needs did not overlap (like a silicon life form from Star Trek that noms on crystals).

As they are in direct competition for our evolutionary niche and the resources that we require (presuming they're Humanoid like most pop culture xenos), kill them unless they offer something beneficial for humanity. But if they have nothing to offer us or we've extracted everything we may have to gain, exterminate.

You do not survive by allowing competition in life to flourish. You stamp it out either by assimilating it through interbreeding with their population or wiping them out with force. Humanity is built upon the corpses of rival species.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
An amenable xeno is a sentient resource... Potential information, learnable strengths and even more expendable than guardsmen.

There's also the saying, "The enemy of my enemy..."

Is still my enemy, because it's an omnicidal death machine.

And /his/ enemy is /also/ my enemy,, because it's an incorporeal manifestation of evil.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Not taking into account silly emotions and delusions like the "right to life" of sentient life (no such thing exists), aliens, if ever encountered, would be considered competition for our niche unless they were so wholly alien that our ecosystems and needs did not overlap (like a silicon life form from Star Trek that noms on crystals).

As they are in direct competition for our evolutionary niche and the resources that we require (presuming they're Humanoid like most pop culture xenos), kill them unless they offer something beneficial for humanity. But if they have nothing to offer us or we've extracted everything we may have to gain, exterminate.

You do not survive by allowing competition in life to flourish. You stamp it out either by assimilating it through interbreeding with their population or wiping them out with force. Humanity is built upon the corpses of rival species.

Not sure if this post is "in character" or not, but humanity is definitely not built upon the corpses of rival species. Homo sapiens sapiens absorbed all rival subspecies (Neanderthals, etc.) through interbreeding, ate the large/awkward stupid species until there were none left (mammoths, giant sloths and the like) and incorporated the more intelligent and useful species into our lifestyles as biological machines (horses, dogs, cats back when they were necessary for pest control.) We are much more like the Tyranids than you realize.

The species that we eradicated are simply gone. But the ones that became useful to us are what matters, because we would be nothing without them. Without horses we would have never developed any nation larger than the Aztecs' little confederation of city-states. Without dogs we would have become extinct before we figured out how to make a bow and arrow.

Meanwhile our true rivals in terms of consumption and environment-altering prowess (ants, cockroaches, mosquitoes, fungi, weeds) are still beyond our ability to control or eradicate. We "coexist" with them whether we like it or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
as for the Imperium of Man, I hear they have alien orangutans making weapons for them.

destrucifier wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Not taking into account silly emotions and delusions like the "right to life" of sentient life (no such thing exists), aliens, if ever encountered, would be considered competition for our niche unless they were so wholly alien that our ecosystems and needs did not overlap (like a silicon life form from Star Trek that noms on crystals).

As they are in direct competition for our evolutionary niche and the resources that we require (presuming they're Humanoid like most pop culture xenos), kill them unless they offer something beneficial for humanity. But if they have nothing to offer us or we've extracted everything we may have to gain, exterminate.

You do not survive by allowing competition in life to flourish. You stamp it out either by assimilating it through interbreeding with their population or wiping them out with force. Humanity is built upon the corpses of rival species.

Not sure if this post is "in character" or not, but humanity is definitely not built upon the corpses of rival species. Homo sapiens sapiens absorbed all rival subspecies (Neanderthals, etc.) through interbreeding, ate the large/awkward stupid species until there were none left (mammoths, giant sloths and the like) and incorporated the more intelligent and useful species into our lifestyles as biological machines (horses, dogs, cats back when they were necessary for pest control.) We are much more like the Tyranids than you realize.

I didn't mean purely hominids. Wherever humans go, we destroy simply as a byproduct of existence or hunt down and slaughter the biggest and meanest megafauna on the block. What couldn't be tamed we killed. What threatened us we exterminated with the aid of climate change (Paleolithic Americans were so badass they apparently would hunt down the American Lion as prey).

The species that we eradicated are simply gone. But the ones that became useful to us are what matters, because we would be nothing without them. Without horses we would have never developed any nation larger than the Aztecs' little confederation of city-states. Without dogs we would have become extinct before we figured out how to make a bow and arrow.

Yes, but the amount of domesticated species is utterly miniscule to the amount of life we destroy. Hell humanity is currently living in a new period of mass extinction largely created by itself.

Meanwhile our true rivals in terms of consumption and environment-altering prowess (ants, cockroaches, mosquitoes, fungi, weeds) are still beyond our ability to control or eradicate. We "coexist" with them whether we like it or not.

We could easily eradicate such species if funding was put behind such projects. The problem is that much like with chemical agents like Agent Orange or DDT... what would be the cost for doing so?

Purge the xenos with flame and fury! Let none of their foul kin defile the universe with their deranged ways! Mankind is the only race fit to populate the galaxy

destrucifier wrote:
cats back when they were necessary for pest control.

Cats are a unique case - they basically domesticated themselves - and trust me, they're still very, very necessary for pest control in the real world.

With dogs, someone looked at a wolf and said: They work together. They're strong. If we can make them work for us, we'll be golden.

With horses, someone looked as a mustang and said: they work together. They're strong. If we can make them work for us, we'll be golden.

With sheep, someone looked at a sheep and said: they live together. They're warm and tasty. If we can make them live with us, we'll be golden.

With cats, someone looked a cat and said: What's this cat doing in my barn? Oh, hunting mice. If it runs out it might leave, lets feed it.

 greyknight12 wrote:

The Tau and their allies want to assimilate and rule over humans.

The Tau merely wish for all to serve the galaxy's Greater Good.

They'll even provide drone labor so that you won't die slaving in a mine or Forge World.

Freedom to live a short, oppressive life under human masters doesn't seem preferable to living a long, freer one under the Tau.

Depends on the Xenos really.

If they're intelligent and willing to coexist in some way, whether thats integration or segregation, there's no need to kill them. Tau and possibly new Necrons would be here, although they'll need to stop with certain activities towards humans to ensure any succesful alliance.

If they're not willing to co-exist and they want to exterminat humans, such as Orks, Tyranids, or Rak'gol then yeah, exterminate them when they become a direct threat, but don't go out of your way to kill ALL of them at once, just the one's that are an immediate problem(eg: focus on exterminating Tyranids before you exterminate the Orks).

Kill all Eldar on sight! They're an exception to the above rules.

I think technophobic inquisitors should be killed on sight. And the people who support them. So that includes the GK and SoB, probably as well.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

The Tau merely wish for all to serve the galaxy's Greater Good.

They'll even provide drone labor so that you won't die slaving in a mine or Forge World.

Freedom to live a short, oppressive life under human masters doesn't seem preferable to living a long, freer one under the Tau.

By the way, they'll kill you if you refuse to join and serve their empire. Hardly "freedom." Let me toil in a mine with my own kind, keep your petty creature comforts.

 zgort wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

The Tau merely wish for all to serve the galaxy's Greater Good.

They'll even provide drone labor so that you won't die slaving in a mine or Forge World.

Freedom to live a short, oppressive life under human masters doesn't seem preferable to living a long, freer one under the Tau.

By the way, they'll kill you if you refuse to join and serve their empire. Hardly "freedom." Let me toil in a mine with my own kind, keep your petty creature comforts.

Don't forget about all the Gelding.

So long as they do not attempt to subvert, destroy, corrupt, enslave, or experiment on humanity, they should be allowed to live.

But this is 40k. The amount of xeno races that qualify for THAT are extremely low.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

The Tau and their allies want to assimilate and rule over humans.

The Tau merely wish for all to serve the galaxy's Greater Good.

They'll even provide drone labor so that you won't die slaving in a mine or Forge World.

Freedom to live a short, oppressive life under human masters doesn't seem preferable to living a long, freer one under the Tau.

Say that to the pow's on Taros.

This is the most depressing poll I've ever seen on this site. I can't even tell if its meant to be humorously in character or actually genuine. Are we genuinely debating whether or not a thinking, living, sapient entity doesn't start invested with rights like we do? And must first behave in a proscribed manner before they are disavowed of these? Is the racism in this fictional setting really so necessary and thrilling to people that they actually feel the need to ask if a living, sapient entity inherently doesn't have a right to live?

And don't bring up Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar and such. Nobody argues that everybody has to take a stand and wipe these people out. Even the Tau Empire has a stance of absolute annihilation against them. The question here which needs to be answered is about the hundreds of other species we are told exist who are wiped out down to their last child often because of nothing more than greed. Why stop at xenos. Some humans who don't make the Imperium's classification of 'human enough' are treated the same. So we are in agreement that this is right? That we should kill every man, woman and child? Every innocent civilian? Every father seeking to protect their children? Every sister and brother playing together?

And stop acting like the Imperium is a perpetual victim. As if Orks and Tyranid have only threatened humans. As if the setting hasn't made clear multiple times that mankind without need or provocation often wipes out entire alien civilizations simply for not being human.

Why does it matter if I, here, was born with wings or with a different phenotype to you or anyone else? Is that what determines if I have a right? Am a 'person' as most major philosophers would say. My biological composition is all that matters? You judge whether something should live based off this? Off whether or not it is human? At what point was it rationally established that mankind should have rights? Why does one group automatically accrue these rights over another? It's just...just...so...I can't even describe how sad it is. So I suppose most here support that anytime a human polity encountered, in our real history, a polity who couldn't militarily defeat them they were entitled to genocide them for their resources? After all that is what the Imperium does if it can, regardless of whether or not the Xenos in question are legitimate targets (Orks, Tyranids and such) or not. Just kill it because it is not us. That's it. How nuanced.

Gosh its like the genocide in Rwanda, mothers and sons and brothers and daughters pulled screaming into the open from their homes, hacked into bloody bits, raped to death whilst mobs of baying people watched and jeered and cheered, justifying their actions on the basis that their victims were threatening their economic and social status, that they deserved it, and refusing to accept a contrary view, calling them names like cockroach and filth, degrading them so that they could distance themselves from the entities they were killing by denying them status as 'persons'. I remember those words and the ones used here and...its...its...indescribable the feeling. So much death and pain and torture justified. Without even recognizing that if we were a planet in their universe but simply populated by aliens who peacefully got along without seeking to genocide all our neighbours the Imperium, if it could, would still kill every last one of us, drag us and our families and loved ones from our homes and kill us whilst cheering it. Our children would be shot to death, even babies with no recognition of the experience about them, would be shot before our eyes if not more gruesomely finished off.

As for the people who keep ragging on the Tau due to an isolated incident of sterilizing in a game of questionable mainstream canonicity to many; do you forget what the Imperium has done to peoples and worlds it has conquered? That the Tau do wrong, like all hegemons, is an indisputable fact but in no way absolves the Imperium of its many, and far worse, crimes.

And to those who justify the position of denying something rights on the basis of the threats of the Orks and such species; no-one is arguing that a species in which every individual member of the species non-stop attempts to murder you must be stopped, but that's far removed from asking whether by inherent point any xenos deserves no rights.

To those who talk of mankind wiping out species in its growth; yes...and? Because something is or was the case does not mean it should be the case. That is an enormous fallacy. Simply because we have done something wrong for a long time, perhaps even always, does not mean that it becomes right. If anything it becomes something to critically examine and change. This also misses that since we have recorded history mankind has been responsible for the extinction of species we deem 'non-sapient' and thus this does not inform us or create a bar from which to judge how we have or would treat species we deem to be 'sapient'.

If my answer is not clear enough then to leave no room for ambiguity; Should Xenos have the right to exist? OF COURSE. Whether it is green with eight eyes or made of the colour blue does not change whether or not it deserves to have rights. There are humans who would kill me as readily for my resources and my beliefs as any alien. I wish we could move past seeing things in terms of 'species' instead of 'persons'. This is so sad.