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Hey guys, i'm wondering what you guys would like to play against in the eldar codex, I feel bikes are not much fun, but I still hear complaints about everything in the army, is there a way to satisfy the general playerbase with a list, or are eldar doomed from the start when it comes to fun games?

Doomed. All doomed. There is not a single unit I would play against. If an eldar model touches a table, I won't. In all seriousness, just play fluffy, read a few books about the eldar, look at what is usually present, and most importantly, have fun. Have a bright attitude. Maybe don't always send your eldar where they are "most" needed as they'll do well anywheere anywsy

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Doomed. All doomed. There is not a single unit I would play against. If an eldar model touches a table, I won't. In all seriousness, just play fluffy, read a few books about the eldar, look at what is usually present, and most importantly, have fun. Have a bright attitude. Maybe don't always send your eldar where they are "most" needed as they'll do well anywheere anywsy

Can't really play that fluffy, since the distortion weapons are 'waaaay' too overpowered (even though they rip open time and space to suck people in, if I recall correctly) and I absolutely loved the Iyanden wraiths before they got stupid crazy buffs. I don't ever plan on maxing scatbikes unless maybe in competitions, but I don't want to be a dick and pull out my rev titan and have people hate me for it

I imagine a fun Eldar list to have one or two squads of bikes with 1 heavy weapon each, one or two squads of Guardians, one or two units of Aspect Warriors in transports, two or three Falcon/Serpents, one or two Vypers, one really cool special thing (Avatar, footseer council, Phoenix Lord, Special Character, etc.)

Four Aspect Warrior units of various types, no Windriders if it's not Saim-Hann, so only the Shining Spears normally. One unit of Wraithguard is fine, but with a mandatory Spiritseer, footslogging or in a Wave Serpent. If there is a Wraithguard squad, then that allows a Wraithlord or Wraithknight.

So something along the lines of:
Farseer
Spiritseer
Dire Avengers
Rangers
Wraithguard
Crimson Hunter
Assorted Wave Serpents, Fire Prisms and Falcons as need be
Wraithknight
Aspect Host Formation

If people complain about those limitations then they're just bellyaching for no friggin reason. Yes the good stuff is there, but Eldar have been 'blessed' with fluffy units that kick all of the ass. No need to eliminate ALL of it.

take 5-10% of your points limit

I played my 3rd edition list over the weekend, updated to 7th edition warhost restrictions.

Fun was had by all, but it didn't include any jetbikes or wraithknights (we don't play with superheavy/gargantuan) and included garbage units like banshees, a wraithlord, and Avatar.

Fun fact: In third edition we played at 1000 points. My 3rd edition list (not including the things I needed to add to make the Guardian Battle Host) came out to 1235 points. In an era where almost everything else has gone down in points, Eldar have actually gone up. You might contend that some of those things are more expensive and better, which I'd be forced to agree with, but some other things have gotten more expensive and worse as well.

Avoid the most obviously OP units: Scatbikers (1 per 3 if you want to run bikes), Wraithknights, anything with a D-weapon, Jetseer council.

Focus instead on Aspect Warriors and Eldar infantry. Try using the Craftworld Warhost as the basis for an army.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Avoid the most obviously OP units: Scatbikers (1 per 3 if you want to run bikes), Wraithknights, anything with a D-weapon, Jetseer council.

Focus instead on Aspect Warriors and Eldar infantry. Try using the Craftworld Warhost as the basis for an army.

I think ill use my knight, but just use old edition rules, str 10 hits, and mc instead of GMC

No "fluffy" siam-hann or iyanden armies, or any mutant hybrid of the 2.

At least 1 max squad of rangers, and 1 squad of guardians

All aspect troops limited to 1-0.

All transports limited to 1-0.

No wraithknight, scatbikes, fire dragons, seer councils, D-platforms.

kburn wrote:
No "fluffy" siam-hann or iyanden armies, or any mutant hybrid of the 2.

At least 1 max squad of rangers, and 1 squad of guardians

All aspect troops limited to 1-0.

All transports limited to 1-0.

No wraithknight, scatbikes, fire dragons, seer councils, D-platforms.

You're bad at jokes

Why not make an Exodite army? Use Fantasy High Elves and kit bash them to make them a little more Eldar. Convert up some Shadow Warriors to be Rangers, White Lions kit bashed to be Striking Scorpions. Dragon Princes as Shining Spears. I am currently doing that, and everybody I have talked to about it are actually very excited to play against my Exodite footdar.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Avoid the most obviously OP units: Scatbikers (1 per 3 if you want to run bikes), Wraithknights, anything with a D-weapon, Jetseer council.

Focus instead on Aspect Warriors and Eldar infantry. Try using the Craftworld Warhost as the basis for an army.

What follows is DA, FD+SH for "fun" list , that is classed as for "fun" only by necron and eldar players.

You're bad at jokes

But everything else makes eldar "fun" list hit tier 1 of most of other books.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

You're bad at jokes

I wish that was a joke. Even with the "joke" eldar restrictions I posted can easily steamroll tyranids, and would be extremely competitive against most other lists.

Maybe try playing a non-easy mode army for a change, to see what difficulties they face?

kburn wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

You're bad at jokes

I wish that was a joke. Even with the "joke" eldar restrictions I posted can easily steamroll tyranids, and would be extremely competitive against most other lists.

Maybe try playing a non-easy mode army for a change, to see what difficulties they face?

2/10 troll, made me reply.

If you think an eldar army... ANY army.....can function well with two meh troops, 1 transport and 1 main squad, you're fething insane. On a side note, if that list you posted could 'steamroll' nids, then your nid player REALLY needs to learn to play their army, I play nids, orks and IG, considered some of the weakest armies in the game, and don't have issues with them.

Would probably beat BA, too.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

kburn wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

You're bad at jokes

I wish that was a joke. Even with the "joke" eldar restrictions I posted can easily steamroll tyranids, and would be extremely competitive against most other lists.

Maybe try playing a non-easy mode army for a change, to see what difficulties they face?

2/10 troll, made me reply.

If you think an eldar army... ANY army.....can function well with two meh troops, 1 transport and 1 main squad, you're fething insane. On a side note, if that list you posted could 'steamroll' nids, then your nid player REALLY needs to learn to play their army, I play nids, orks and IG, considered some of the weakest armies in the game, and don't have issues with them.

The weakest units in the Eldar list are still pretty good. I have faced an Eldar Footdar list and been tabled turn 4 by it. I have faced the Eldar cheese lists and been tabled by them turn 3 and have won against it once by fluke of a SAG Shot that destroyed his WK and warlord.

ALMOST every unit in the eldar codex is OP or under costed which makes it OP.

To the OP if you want to run a fun Eldar list for your opponent, bring whatever you want, and then army swap and have them play your Fun list and see what happens.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

kburn wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

You're bad at jokes

I wish that was a joke. Even with the "joke" eldar restrictions I posted can easily steamroll tyranids, and would be extremely competitive against most other lists.

Maybe try playing a non-easy mode army for a change, to see what difficulties they face?

2/10 troll, made me reply.

If you think an eldar army... ANY army.....can function well with two meh troops, 1 transport and 1 main squad, you're fething insane. On a side note, if that list you posted could 'steamroll' nids, then your nid player REALLY needs to learn to play their army, I play nids, orks and IG, considered some of the weakest armies in the game, and don't have issues with them.

In all honesty, their "meh" troops don't really matter when you still have Eldar Jetbike troop units with Heavy Support firepower, and of course Dire Avengers. Plus, the Wave Serpent isn't just a transport. It's a really good transport.

If it were me, I'd try the following things:

I would try and avoid using the warhost formation. If you really want to use that, I would avoid the +1BS aspect warrior formation. I think having the core of your army consisting of BS5 troops is a bit too much, and it lets you spam aspect warriors if you want. Barring biel-tan, I wouldn't expect eldar armies to have masses of aspect warriors, and if it were Biel-tan, you might expect a mix of both CC and shooters.

You could try a stabby eldar army. Take some scorpions, some banshees and some Wraithblades, then throw in a phoenix lord to lead the charge, and see what ends up happening. You could even throw in a wraithlord if you're feeling adventurous! In terms of troops, a unit of jetbikes with 1 in 3 heavy weapons wouldn't be too hardcore, just don't spam scatbikes out of your arse. Then add some guardians/avengers depending on what you feel like playing. If you feel like giving your opponent something to BBQ, bring some rangers too.

What are your feelings on not bringing your wraithknight?

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Hey guys, i'm wondering what you guys would like to play against in the eldar codex, I feel bikes are not much fun, but I still hear complaints about everything in the army, is there a way to satisfy the general playerbase with a list, or are eldar doomed from the start when it comes to fun games?

I play Highlander (CAD) list for casual games and I don't take a Wraithknight. After a few games the other guys started to welcome games and even sought out games against me. Not taking spam units seems to make them more playable for fun.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and keep the one unit of bikes with heavy weapons to a minium 3-4 at most.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Hey guys, i'm wondering what you guys would like to play against in the eldar codex, I feel bikes are not much fun, but I still hear complaints about everything in the army, is there a way to satisfy the general playerbase with a list, or are eldar doomed from the start when it comes to fun games?

You're pretty much doomed unless you hamstring yourself and purposefully lose the game. Or better yet, stop playing against cry babies that refuse to adapt their tactics. You could take a 60 ranger army and win and your opponent will boo boo stink face all day muttering about "f'n eldar" so you might as well just crank it to 11 and have fun curb stomping and weed out your player base. No sense watering yourself down to deal with lesser generals, not to mention their terrible opinions which might as well be how to guides on being a useless goob.

And if case anyone wants to know, a goob is a perpetual noob, they don't try to better themselves in any way and often complain as a defense mechanism to alleviate themselves from any effort.

Makumba wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Avoid the most obviously OP units: Scatbikers (1 per 3 if you want to run bikes), Wraithknights, anything with a D-weapon, Jetseer council.

Focus instead on Aspect Warriors and Eldar infantry. Try using the Craftworld Warhost as the basis for an army.

What follows is DA, FD+SH for "fun" list , that is classed as for "fun" only by necron and eldar players.

You're bad at jokes

But everything else makes eldar "fun" list hit tier 1 of most of other books.

Seriously? We're complaining about Dire Avengers now? Yes, it is true that on average Dire Avengers will kill an equivalent CSM squad...if there isn't any cover. CSM also stomp Dire Avengers in CC.

Yeah, these units will be shooting at BS5. They are also all T3, with the Swooping Hawks and Dire Avengers having a 4+ save (Fire Dragons have 3+). Bolters are a serious threat to those squads. Hardly difficult ot kill of deal with.

Tarvitz77 wrote:If it were me, I'd try the following things:

I would try and avoid using the warhost formation. If you really want to use that, I would avoid the +1BS aspect warrior formation. I think having the core of your army consisting of BS5 troops is a bit too much, and it lets you spam aspect warriors if you want. Barring biel-tan, I wouldn't expect eldar armies to have masses of aspect warriors, and if it were Biel-tan, you might expect a mix of both CC and shooters.

You could try a stabby eldar army. Take some scorpions, some banshees and some Wraithblades, then throw in a phoenix lord to lead the charge, and see what ends up happening. You could even throw in a wraithlord if you're feeling adventurous! In terms of troops, a unit of jetbikes with 1 in 3 heavy weapons wouldn't be too hardcore, just don't spam scatbikes out of your arse. Then add some guardians/avengers depending on what you feel like playing. If you feel like giving your opponent something to BBQ, bring some rangers too.

What are your feelings on not bringing your wraithknight?

The Warhost is the least overpowered thing in the Eldar codex. For the benefit of an automatic 6" run move, you have to take a lot of sub-optimal units. Sure, you can make them work, but it's a matter of opportunity cost vs. what you could be taking.

The Aspect Host is only really nasty if you just spam the same Aspect, like Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders. Take from three different Aspects ans it isn't nearly so nasty.

Every Eldar army uses Aspect Warriors. Some Craftworlds just use more of them than others.

Ravenous D wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Hey guys, i'm wondering what you guys would like to play against in the eldar codex, I feel bikes are not much fun, but I still hear complaints about everything in the army, is there a way to satisfy the general playerbase with a list, or are eldar doomed from the start when it comes to fun games?

You're pretty much doomed unless you hamstring yourself and purposefully lose the game. Or better yet, stop playing against cry babies that refuse to adapt their tactics. You could take a 60 ranger army and win and your opponent will boo boo stink face all day muttering about "f'n eldar" so you might as well just crank it to 11 and have fun curb stomping and weed out your player base. No sense watering yourself down to deal with lesser generals, not to mention their terrible opinions which might as well be how to guides on being a useless goob.

And if case anyone wants to know, a goob is a perpetual noob, they don't try to better themselves in any way and often complain as a defense mechanism to alleviate themselves from any effort.

Your attitude isn't helping. Sure, you can go full cheddar, but in some areas that just makes people more likely to kick you out, especially if you have a bad attitude about the game.

There aren't a lot of armies out there that can deal with full cheddar Eldar. But most can deal with Eldar at a more balanced level.

Here are the units to avoid:

Wraithknights
Wraithguard
Wraith flyer
Warp Spiders
Jetbikes including council

Harlequins

Lynx

But most can deal with Eldar at a more balanced level.

Your forgetting to add with what they can deal with "balanced" eldar lists though. They can do it with tournament list. If two people pick random units out of they codex and one is eldar and the other one is not a necron player, the eldar player will always be at an adventage, just because of the quality of rules eldar units have.

Seriously? We're complaining about Dire Avengers now? Yes, it is true that on average Dire Avengers will kill an equivalent CSM squad...if there isn't any cover. CSM also stomp Dire Avengers in CC.

Yeah, these units will be shooting at BS5. They are also all T3, with the Swooping Hawks and Dire Avengers having a 4+ save (Fire Dragons have 3+). Bolters are a serious threat to those squads. Hardly difficult ot kill of deal with.

I play IG. To me they are veterans on crack with better saves, better weapons and higher rate of fire and more efficient transpots.

The Aspect Host is only really nasty if you just spam the same Aspect, like Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders. Take from three different Aspects ans it isn't nearly so nasty.

I can totaly see people not use the DA, FD or WS ,they already bought, for their casual eldar list and start stocking up on those banshees and scropions like there was no tomorrow.

Use a regular Combined Arms Detachment, and then use Highlander rules as a guideline - try not to take more than one of any kind of unit. You'll probably need to take more than one Wave Serpent, so offset those by also taking Falcons.

Take Warlocks for all your Guardian-type units and take Exarchs with all your Aspect Warriors. These are usually not cost-effective, but they make the units more fun to use.

Don't put your HQ units on Jetbikes. Footslogging Farseers require more thought to use effectively. Autarchs with Wings or Warp Jump Generators are still quite mobile, without being overly cheesy.

Use melee units - banshees, wraithblades, etc. DE or Harlequin allies can be useful for their assault transports, enabling a melee Eldar army.

Use Wraithlords. They have lots of weapons options you can experiment with, and can be hilariously durable.

Use the Avatar as your CAD's LoW slot. Strong, but not an unmanageable nightmare for your opponent like the WK is.

Use Phoenix Lords. They are strong, but not insane (you can kill any of them with concentrated infantry shooting).

Don't take more than a couple of units of Windrider Jetbikes, and don't deck them out with heavy weapons. Jetbikes are fun and interesting to use in moderation.



Basically: take variety, don't spam the most powerful units, take "interesting" options that are not necessarily points efficient. You'll still have a fairly strong list, but one that won't make your opponent hate you.

I still try to play full wraith Iyanden. Sure they're "powerful", but I keep them on foot which with them being slow allows them to be out maneuvered pretty easily. I actually like wraithlords a lot so try to fit them in a bunch when I can and definitely never go over one WK despite having two models; that's more for big apoc games.

 n0t_u wrote:
I still try to play full wraith Iyanden. Sure they're "powerful", but I keep them on foot which with them being slow allows them to be out maneuvered pretty easily. I actually like wraithlords a lot so try to fit them in a bunch when I can and definitely never go over one WK despite having two models; that's more for big apoc games.

I love wraiths, the lore behind them is just so cool to me, one of the reasons why I got the titan! Even footslogging people like the ones here that cry that everything is somehow undercosted and op give them the stigma that wraith are unbeatable, when they die pretty damn easy and cost quite a lot!

Dozer Blades wrote:Here are the units to avoid:

Wraithknights
Wraithguard
Wraith flyer
Warp Spiders
Jetbikes including council

Harlequins

Lynx

i can agree about the Jetbikes and ranged D. but Warp Spiders and Harlequins? Warp Spiders are undercosted and their Flickerjump is hard to counter, but they are also very squishy and can be killed easily in CC if you trap them in a corner. They also need their mobility to compensate for the short range of their only weapon.

Harlequins? Really? Some of the squishiest Eldar in a squishy race are now OP? What, are their immunity to grav, psychic abilities, and CC focus really OP compared to Scatbikers, D-weapons, and the Wraithknight?

Makumba wrote:

But most can deal with Eldar at a more balanced level.

Your forgetting to add with what they can deal with "balanced" eldar lists though. They can do it with tournament list. If two people pick random units out of they codex and one is eldar and the other one is not a necron player, the eldar player will always be at an adventage, just because of the quality of rules eldar units have.

Seriously? We're complaining about Dire Avengers now? Yes, it is true that on average Dire Avengers will kill an equivalent CSM squad...if there isn't any cover. CSM also stomp Dire Avengers in CC.

Yeah, these units will be shooting at BS5. They are also all T3, with the Swooping Hawks and Dire Avengers having a 4+ save (Fire Dragons have 3+). Bolters are a serious threat to those squads. Hardly difficult ot kill of deal with.

I play IG. To me they are veterans on crack with better saves, better weapons and higher rate of fire and more efficient transpots.

The Aspect Host is only really nasty if you just spam the same Aspect, like Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders. Take from three different Aspects ans it isn't nearly so nasty.

I can totaly see people not use the DA, FD or WS ,they already bought, for their casual eldar list and start stocking up on those banshees and scropions like there was no tomorrow.

The "pick random units" idea is false. Eldar have great internal balance, but they are also an army that relies heavily on unit synergy. Bring the wrong tools for the job, and your opponent steamrolls you. Make mistakes, and you lose whole units.

Veterans are half the base cost of Dire Avengers even with the Grenadiers, and can take special weapons. All Dire Avengers have is their Avenger Shuriken Catapault. IThey would be terrible if they weren't better than Veterans for their cost.

Yeah, Eldar Aspect Warriors are really good in the current codex. Honestly, they needed it. How many times did you see people take them in 6th edition, when Elar were Codex: Wave Serpents? Again, all Eldar Aspect Warriors are easily killed with return fire. I can understand how armies have no real counters to Scatbikers, D-weapons, and the Wraithknight. But Aspect Warriors are easy to counter if you know what you're doing.

DanielBeaver wrote:Use a regular Combined Arms Detachment, and then use Highlander rules as a guideline - try not to take more than one of any kind of unit. You'll probably need to take more than one Wave Serpent, so offset those by also taking Falcons.

Take Warlocks for all your Guardian-type units and take Exarchs with all your Aspect Warriors. These are usually not cost-effective, but they make the units more fun to use.

Don't put your HQ units on Jetbikes. Footslogging Farseers require more thought to use effectively. Autarchs with Wings or Warp Jump Generators are still quite mobile, without being overly cheesy.

Use melee units - banshees, wraithblades, etc. DE or Harlequin allies can be useful for their assault transports, enabling a melee Eldar army.

Use Wraithlords. They have lots of weapons options you can experiment with, and can be hilariously durable.

Use the Avatar as your CAD's LoW slot. Strong, but not an unmanageable nightmare for your opponent like the WK is.

Use Phoenix Lords. They are strong, but not insane (you can kill any of them with concentrated infantry shooting).

Don't take more than a couple of units of Windrider Jetbikes, and don't deck them out with heavy weapons. Jetbikes are fun and interesting to use in moderation.


Basically: take variety, don't spam the most powerful units, take "interesting" options that are not necessarily points efficient. You'll still have a fairly strong list, but one that won't make your opponent hate you.

I agree that variety is the key to building a balanced Eldar list. But I don't agree with all of your points. The Warhost is one of the least OP things in the Eldar codex. You can't look at the Guardian Battlehost/Stormhost and tell me that it's an optimal Eldar list. If anything, Eldar are more OP in a CAD, as it lets them spam units of Scatbikers.

A Footseer council is a lot less threatening than one on Jetbikes, espcially if you don't go overboard on Warlocks. Cheaper too.

The Aspect Host is quite powerful, especially with the +1 BS, but not overpowered. It is very restrictive in terms of the number of units you can take, and requires an Exarch upgrade for each unit. It usually runs about 500-800 points. Eldar do have some decent melee units, especially with DE and Harlequin allies, so that's also something worth considering. You just have to build your army right to make the best use of melee units.

TheNewBlood, Eldar are a way for people who don't want to adapt to complain about the game. the strongest eldar units that people screetch op can be countered and killed by any marine army with a single gravpod attack, and the units get pricey fast.

don't worry about having the "optimal" list, try not to spam units (2-3 squads tops on most things). pick a theme, and run with it. all are options that wont "hamstring" you outside of tournaments.