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Old sprues/box art: If I haven't seen it, it's new to me!

tneva82 wrote:

b) if they ARE mockups...Why old sprues? Couldn't they put CURRENT sprues as a mockup sprues just as well? Ones that would then be more likely closer to final product(who thinks any new models wouldn't look more like current models rather than old ones? New trukk designed for this would be more akin to gorkamorka trukk? Not likely...).

The older sprues could simply be representations of what to expect. Snap Fit models that look like X and are roughly the same sized. As the boxes themselves are mockups and these photos were taken at a toy fair where companies show off potential new products and the like it's very much possible that it was GW fishing for interest with retailers. Hence why all the flyers etc. have a single person listed as a point of contact. The coloured sprues also implies that perhaps these are quite old - possibly even prototypes from AoBR days.

I have no doubt the kits are going to be snap-fits much like AoBR, BFM or DV and perhaps the older sprues are simply to demonstrate what that means to an audience that would not be wholly familiar with GW's products (these are retailers, not hobbyists).

And I'd expect them to have similar aesthetics to the current kits in order to function as an intro point into the hobby. Much easier to get someone interested in a £10/£15/£25 range with paints and glue included than a £60+ box without any hobby supplies at all.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

b) if they ARE mockups...Why old sprues? Couldn't they put CURRENT sprues as a mockup sprues just as well? Ones that would then be more likely closer to final product(who thinks any new models wouldn't look more like current models rather than old ones? New trukk designed for this would be more akin to gorkamorka trukk? Not likely...).

The older sprues could simply be representations of what to expect. Snap Fit models that look like X and are roughly the same sized. As the boxes themselves are mockups and these photos were taken at a toy fair where companies show off potential new products and the like it's very much possible that it was GW fishing for interest with retailers. Hence why all the flyers etc. have a single person listed as a point of contact. The coloured sprues also implies that perhaps these are quite old - possibly even prototypes from AoBR days.

I have no doubt the kits are going to be snap-fits much like AoBR, BFM or DV and perhaps the older sprues are simply to demonstrate what that means to an audience that would not be wholly familiar with GW's products (these are retailers, not hobbyists).

And I'd expect them to have similar aesthetics to the current kits in order to function as an intro point into the hobby. Much easier to get someone interested in a £10/£15/£25 range with paints and glue included than a £60+ box without any hobby supplies at all.

They are including the glue - 'snap-fit' seems to really not be the case.

As pointed out, using the older frames allows them to create this line with minimal outlay - most of the work has been done.

Making new 'snap-fit' models would increase the startup cost by an order of magnitude.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* I am not saying that they won't also use the existing 'snap-fit' models - just not to expect a new landspeeder or def kopter.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
They are including the glue - 'snap-fit' seems to really not be the case.

As pointed out, using the older frames allows them to create this line with minimal outlay - most of the work has been done.

Making new 'snap-fit' models would increase the startup cost by an order of magnitude.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* I am not saying that they won't also use the existing 'snap-fit' models - just not to expect a new landspeeder or def kopter.

Snap-Fit is also easier to assemble, even if including glue.

Snap-Fit Space Marine from AoBR - Body, Gun, Backpack, Base.

Tactical Space Marine - 2 torso parts, legs, head, two arms, seperate bolter hand, seperate shoulderpads, backpack. Even more if you have a heavy weapon.

The glue simply keeps it 'secure' in this case.

Also, with regards to a start-up of magnitude?

This is still GW. Common sense is still not one of their strong points, though they are making progress.

Also: Wouldn't expect a 'new' Deff Kopta or Land Speeder - those currently match their range's aesthetics. Now the Ork Trukk and Warbike? Those might see something new. But to be perfectly fair SM and Ork aesthetics are a nice constant for all other intents and purposes.

If a kid can stick together an Airfix Spitfire ME109 or a Panzerkampfwagen T34 Stuart tank, they can stick together a GW model.

 BrookM wrote:
If a kid can stick together an Airfix Spitfire ME109 or a Panzerkampfwagen T34 Stuart tank, they can stick together a GW model.

I dunno man, I'm a grown adult and I swore on the Dark Gods in frustration at my fething Eldar.

So. Fething. Tiny. Seriously. Why do the back 'vanes' need to be seperate like that? My sausage fingers were like...WAT DIS? HOW GRAB? HOW HOLD? LOL GLUE.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I dunno man, I'm a grown adult and I swore on the Dark Gods in frustration at my fething Eldar.

So. Fething. Tiny. Seriously. Why do the back 'vanes' need to be seperate like that? My sausage fingers were like...WAT DIS? HOW GRAB? HOW HOLD? LOL GLUE.

Heh... Try Malifaux or Kingdom Death plastics. One small slip with the clippers and you've annihilated the piece you were trying to clip.

 keezus wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I dunno man, I'm a grown adult and I swore on the Dark Gods in frustration at my fething Eldar.

So. Fething. Tiny. Seriously. Why do the back 'vanes' need to be seperate like that? My sausage fingers were like...WAT DIS? HOW GRAB? HOW HOLD? LOL GLUE.

Heh... Try Malifaux or Kingdom Death plastics. One small slip with the clippers and you've annihilated the piece you were trying to clip.

No kidding. If I ever see another clockwork trap again, it'll be too soon. And I still need to figure something out to replace the broken off pommels on some of my KD minis.

Back on topic, this new line really does seem like a good idea. Will this save the company? Of course not; there are bigger, core issues that need solved. But as long as these kits bring in new customers, I don't see a downside. If those customers eventually branch out into non-GW games and the greater wargaming hobby, even better.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

As pointed out, using the older frames allows them to create this line with minimal outlay - most of the work has been done.

Making new 'snap-fit' models would increase the startup cost by an order of magnitude.

Yes, the startup cost would increase, but considering that they are expecting to sell quite a lot of these, then the investment might be worth it. I would expect that they start with existing sprues, then do one or two re-arranged snap-fit sprues, and after that might produce a couple of new ones if those sell well enough. On the positive side, if they are recycling the existing designs, there's no designer time required and they can always outsource the transfer into simplified moulds.

Then again, I don't think GW has any problems of clearing the supermarket kits they might produce. Unlike the official GW view that their customers are 'collectors of finest models', most players are happy to buy snap-fits to bulk out their army or for conversion fodder

keezus wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I dunno man, I'm a grown adult and I swore on the Dark Gods in frustration at my fething Eldar.

So. Fething. Tiny. Seriously. Why do the back 'vanes' need to be seperate like that? My sausage fingers were like...WAT DIS? HOW GRAB? HOW HOLD? LOL GLUE.

Heh... Try Malifaux or Kingdom Death plastics. One small slip with the clippers and you've annihilated the piece you were trying to clip.

By Yan Lo's beard! Yeah this ^^ very much this

I like the idea of these in principle, the kits. But it seems like, if real, a pretty half-a**ed ploy. If it's meant to help gain converts and be an into to 40k, they need new models, more in line with what's out, because those old ones... ugh, most of them are ugly imo. Plus I just can't help thinking the sticker shock alone of anyone actually getting into 40k from a starter kit like that will send them running away, let alone once they realize they need more advance modeling skills.

Anyway, just my two cents

 Crimson wrote:

 Fango wrote:
I could care less

How much less could you care?

Apologies officer, I meant 'couldn't care less' ...but now that you mention it, I might be able to squeeze about |---------(this much)---------| less caring into that statement.

I've grumped when GW has made dumb decisions in the past. But this...

This is a damn good idea! So they're making kits certain posters on here don't like. It's not the most recent kit? So friggin what! Who cares? Cheap kits to be used as models for kids to get into the modeling hobby. And some old kits were really cool.

Honestly, some people in this thread just seem to enjoy pissing into the cornflakes of everyone else.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I've grumped when GW has made dumb decisions in the past. But this...

This is a damn good idea! So they're making kits certain posters on here don't like. It's not the most recent kit? So friggin what! Who cares? Cheap kits to be used as models for kids to get into the modeling hobby. And some old kits were really cool.

Honestly, some people in this thread just seem to enjoy pissing into the cornflakes of everyone else.

Heck, this is the first GW thread where I have been optimistic in a long time. (I think the closest in the recent past was my describing the Knights as nice, but a bit pricey.)

I think that the games will benefit from having this exposure - and goodness knows, GW has enough older molds to flesh this line out quite a bit.

The problem for some folks, I think, is that they see this as somehow devaluing the more typical models - while I am of the opinion that the brand is just not worth as much as GW thinks that it is.

If this does well... it may get GW to look in that direction.

The Auld Grump - not holding my breath, mind.

Not sure if it was noticed, but the new Bloodbowl poster has the 'Tiny Plastic Spacemen' logo that the built + paint range has.



Bloodbowl with single peice or two peice snapfit models would be a great game to stick on the shelf at Target or similar stores.

Already been covered. Tiny Plastic Spacemenis the name of the blog that first posted those pictures. Thanks, though.

Yeah that's me (see my sig file)

 insaniak wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:

Pages and pages of people debating what the use of the gorkamorka trukks means, and speculating how they're doing it to avoid cannibalizing sales of the main 40k kits, etc. Based on some concept pictures of not final contents. That "all".

Ah, ok. So the issue is that you have trouble telling the difference between 'discussion' and 'losing our minds'...

The issue is that I had the nerve to exaggerate a little bit. A thousand apologies.

That tiny plastic spacemen blog got a couple of good breaks here it seems - and I'd never heard of them before, had any of you? I guess everyone's so used to GW giving absolutely no information away at trade shows and the like that it became a bit of a blind spot. Nice work, regardless.

Let's be honest about this here - most commenting here are veteran GW players so the kits, at the much lower price points seem attractive - especially if you are a gamer. But these are not being aimed at gamers, they are being aimed at budding model builders (as serious ones wouldn't touch these kits in a million years).

That being said, they are going to find it more difficult than selling to gamers. For starters, the price is ridiculous. Case in point: This Christmas I bought my 9-year old son a 48 piece, full painted, snap together Revell F16 model kit. Fully assembled, the kit is about two inches high, 7 1/2 inches long and has a 4 inch wing span. Pretty good size and fully painted. The price, not including tax - $11.99. That kit is equivalent to their $39 dreadnought kit they are selling. Secondly, most people getting into modelling generally fall into one of three categories: cars, military or trains. Next time you are in a hobby store, notice how few space or science fiction model kits there are. It's been tried many times and, simply put, they just do not sell.

So the question is, who are these aimed at and why would someone buy these kits over vastly better priced car, military and train starter kits from the larger brands?

Next, GW are going to find things a lot different in the large model channels than they are used to with small hobby stores.

For starters, GW is NOT going to be able to dictate terms to chains such as Hobby Lobby, et al. Those chains dictate the terms and one of them is pretty standard for all manufacturers carried - if the stuff doesn't sell with a certain time period, the manufacturer is taking it back for full credit. Shelf space is a premium in all these stores and it is all about turning the inventory over. The manufacturer who can turn their inventory the fastest gets the shelf space.

Most likely, if GW is a new manufacturing supplier to them, it will usually be tested first - ON THE MANUFACTURERS DIME! They will give GW a little shelf space to place their product and then monitor the sales turnover. If it is not quick enough, GW will be out before they even get started.

As a gamer, I think these kits are great (for the price), but as someone who once managed a larger retail store, I would be surprised if these ever truly get off the ground.

 Wayshuba wrote:

For starters, GW is NOT going to be able to dictate terms to chains such as Hobby Lobby, et al. Those chains dictate the terms and one of them is pretty standard for all manufacturers carried - if the stuff doesn't sell with a certain time period, the manufacturer is taking it back for full credit. Shelf space is a premium in all these stores and it is all about turning the inventory over. The manufacturer who can turn their inventory the fastest gets the shelf space.

Most likely, if GW is a new manufacturing supplier to them, it will usually be tested first - ON THE MANUFACTURERS DIME! They will give GW a little shelf space to place their product and then monitor the sales turnover. If it is not quick enough, GW will be out before they even get started.

As a gamer, I think these kits are great (for the price), but as someone who once managed a larger retail store, I would be surprised if these ever truly get off the ground.

GW can and does dictate terms to chains like Hobby Lobby. A semi-local Hobby Lobby store carried the full GW product lineup and has a large tabletop gaming section. I asked the assistant manager a few years back (admittedly I don't go their often) who was in charge of that part of the store if every Hobby Lobby store was going to have a section and he said it was determined largely individually. My actual local HL for instance carries no tabletop gaming items unlike the store mentioned above. If the local management wanted to carry the products, they did so through the normal GW retail methods for stores. They might automatically qualify as a chain for the highest bracket discount (don't know.. didn't ask that) but they still follow GW retail terms at least at the store I asked. In any case, GW has shown multiple times that they're willing to simply gak on customers (both retailers and gamers) and lose their business with bullying one sided terms and conditions rather than actually grow their own business.

Ye Godz! HL with GW? The "single item @ 50% off" coupon would ruin the bastards.

As for dictating terms. I'd love to see them try with Wal-Mart considering they dictate terms to manufacturers who could sneeze and accidentally create a GW in their pants.

If this is part of long term strategy for GW I don't doubt that they will be after staff with experience of negotiating with big box and multiple retail.

if so it would be a real boon for someone to improve GW's presence in the hobby and toy markets.

 Wayshuba wrote:
So the question is, who are these aimed at and why would someone buy these kits over vastly better priced car, military and train starter kits from the larger brands?

Kids who like sf-fantasy stuff. GW customers who have a son or nephew who's interested in the game and would like some models of their own. Potential GW customers who want to try painting before they buy an army.

I find it really strange that companies that product models and/or paints for gaming have made pretty much *NO* effort to help new painters interested in the hobby (specifically an "all in one" paint kit with instructions to specifically paint figures included, and at a decent price). Reaper's "Learn to Paint Kit" is about the only such product I know of, and they're taking *forever* to come out with the second kit. I know Vallejo had two such products, but they're OOP (at the low, low cost of $77). Back in 2003, GW released a "Space Marine Assault" kit for $25. Instructions were pretty sad, but you got 13 models and 7 paints.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlX1kXodLos

 Wayshuba wrote:
That being said, they are going to find it more difficult than selling to gamers. For starters, the price is ridiculous. Case in point: This Christmas I bought my 9-year old son a 48 piece, full painted, snap together Revell F16 model kit. Fully assembled, the kit is about two inches high, 7 1/2 inches long and has a 4 inch wing span. Pretty good size and fully painted. The price, not including tax - $11.99. That kit is equivalent to their $39 dreadnought kit they are selling. Secondly, most people getting into modelling generally fall into one of three categories: cars, military or trains. Next time you are in a hobby store, notice how few space or science fiction model kits there are. It's been tried many times and, simply put, they just do not sell.

So the question is, who are these aimed at and why would someone buy these kits over vastly better priced car, military and train starter kits from the larger brands?

They're not the same though. If you had given me a 48 piece Revell F16 snap-fit model, when I was 9, I would have politely said thank you, left it in its shrink warap, and put it in the Christmas bin to donate. Likewise to a car or train. If it had been a Millennium Falcon, X-Wing, Gundam, or 40k Dreadnought you wouldn't be able to hold me back.

Also, these kits come with paint and a brush, which is pretty cool. I would have been totally into that. In the absence of it, I would have asked my parents to buy me paints and brushes... uh wait, this is what I did

 Wayshuba wrote:
Most likely, if GW is a new manufacturing supplier to them, it will usually be tested first - ON THE MANUFACTURERS DIME! They will give GW a little shelf space to place their product and then monitor the sales turnover. If it is not quick enough, GW will be out before they even get started.

I totally agree. The likely scenario is that a decent sized order for product is purchased on 180 day terms, and GW must pay for shelf space if they want a good spot (especially an aisle end) and pay for co-op advertising. GW will need to agree to take back anything the customer finds deficient. If the retailer decides not to carry the line after, they'll return everything unsold, and pay GW for the units that do sell. If it moved decently, then they'll re-order, and pay GW for the entirety of the first order.

It's pretty brutal.

On the other hand, if a $50 kit costs GW $5 to manufacture, and there's a demand for the product, it will probably work out okay.

 Wayshuba wrote:
Let's be honest about this here - most commenting here are veteran GW players so the kits, at the much lower price points seem attractive - especially if you are a gamer. But these are not being aimed at gamers, they are being aimed at budding model builders (as serious ones wouldn't touch these kits in a million years).

That being said, they are going to find it more difficult than selling to gamers. For starters, the price is ridiculous. Case in point: This Christmas I bought my 9-year old son a 48 piece, full painted, snap together Revell F16 model kit. Fully assembled, the kit is about two inches high, 7 1/2 inches long and has a 4 inch wing span. Pretty good size and fully painted. The price, not including tax - $11.99. That kit is equivalent to their $39 dreadnought kit they are selling. Secondly, most people getting into modelling generally fall into one of three categories: cars, military or trains. Next time you are in a hobby store, notice how few space or science fiction model kits there are. It's been tried many times and, simply put, they just do not sell.

So the question is, who are these aimed at and why would someone buy these kits over vastly better priced car, military and train starter kits from the larger brands?

Next, GW are going to find things a lot different in the large model channels than they are used to with small hobby stores.

For starters, GW is NOT going to be able to dictate terms to chains such as Hobby Lobby, et al. Those chains dictate the terms and one of them is pretty standard for all manufacturers carried - if the stuff doesn't sell with a certain time period, the manufacturer is taking it back for full credit. Shelf space is a premium in all these stores and it is all about turning the inventory over. The manufacturer who can turn their inventory the fastest gets the shelf space.

Most likely, if GW is a new manufacturing supplier to them, it will usually be tested first - ON THE MANUFACTURERS DIME! They will give GW a little shelf space to place their product and then monitor the sales turnover. If it is not quick enough, GW will be out before they even get started.

As a gamer, I think these kits are great (for the price), but as someone who once managed a larger retail store, I would be surprised if these ever truly get off the ground.

I think you are missing one very key factor in the equation as to why this will be successful for GW, even if they don't sell a ton of them - it is costing them almost nothing to do this. They are existing molds that are long paid off, costing them almost nothing but some plastic and new boxes. And it is their own intellectual property, so licensing fees are a non factor, like they are with the scifi big dogs Star Wars/Trek. Bottom line, they have very low upfront costs and risk in doing this, and do not need vast sales for it to be profitable. It is a very cheap way of getting them into some non GW/game stores for little money, and if they sell a few kits and get some exposure to 40K in general, it is a total win.

 Talys wrote:
They're not the same though. If you had given me a 48 piece Revell F16 snap-fit model, when I was 9, I would have politely said thank you, left it in its shrink warap, and put it in the Christmas bin to donate. Likewise to a car or train. If it had been a Millennium Falcon, X-Wing, Gundam, or 40k Dreadnought you wouldn't be able to hold me back.

Also, these kits come with paint and a brush, which is pretty cool. I would have been totally into that. In the absence of it, I would have asked my parents to buy me paints and brushes... uh wait, this is what I did

You're talking here like the discretionary spending for Jr is not budget constrained. I think that in today's market, especially for beginners, low price is the key. Simplicity is the key. No parent wants to spend a lot on stuff that their child may not want to pursue after some initial interest. The Revell kit cost 1/3 the amount of the GW one. If little Timmy or Sally want to continue and are OK with spending their hobby budget on the GW product (less physical product(s) for the same money) - and it fits into the overall budget... then by all means continue. They don't come with paints and a brush, but the tiny 4mL starter paint pots that GW gives you and the starter hobby brush could be easily sourced for less. Dollar store brushes (and to an extent, paints) are perfectly good for a beginner and as a hobbyist, I use the brushes often for basecoating and when employing certain techniques which cause brush damage - the paints are great for terrain.

If Sci Fi is the thing, Revell's Star Wars line can scratch that itch. $39 buys you the frankly enormous Kylo Ren's Shuttle.

 Talys wrote:

 Wayshuba wrote:
That being said, they are going to find it more difficult than selling to gamers. For starters, the price is ridiculous. Case in point: This Christmas I bought my 9-year old son a 48 piece, full painted, snap together Revell F16 model kit. Fully assembled, the kit is about two inches high, 7 1/2 inches long and has a 4 inch wing span. Pretty good size and fully painted. The price, not including tax - $11.99. That kit is equivalent to their $39 dreadnought kit they are selling. Secondly, most people getting into modelling generally fall into one of three categories: cars, military or trains. Next time you are in a hobby store, notice how few space or science fiction model kits there are. It's been tried many times and, simply put, they just do not sell.

So the question is, who are these aimed at and why would someone buy these kits over vastly better priced car, military and train starter kits from the larger brands?

They're not the same though. If you had given me a 48 piece Revell F16 snap-fit model, when I was 9, I would have politely said thank you, left it in its shrink warap, and put it in the Christmas bin to donate. Likewise to a car or train. If it had been a Millennium Falcon, X-Wing, Gundam, or 40k Dreadnought you wouldn't be able to hold me back.

Also, these kits come with paint and a brush, which is pretty cool. I would have been totally into that. In the absence of it, I would have asked my parents to buy me paints and brushes... uh wait, this is what I did

When I was 9 I was building models of steamships.

Not disagreeing with you, mind - more reminiscing.... I wonder if those models are still made.... * They are! Reasonably priced, too. *

My love of steam predates my gaming days by a few years.

The Auld Grump

 insaniak wrote:

 Scrub wrote:
It's been pointed out over and over that the kits and artwork are placeholder to give a general idea of what the product would entail and aren't yet final.

There could be new kits designed specifically for this range, as far as we know at this point.

There are no new kits designed specifically for this range. Again, the confirmation that there are no new moulds being made for this has already been posted in this thread.

Sorry, maybe I've missed something here? Where did that get said?

All I've seen is some dude say he spoke to a dude at a toy fair..... I don't want to take anything away from the awesome dude who shared all this info (thanks again!) but this could be a complete misunderstanding and the GW dude said 'THESE models are not new sprues'

In my experience, guy on the stand at toy fair is not privy to all the management information.

 Wopbopadobop wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Scrub wrote:
It's been pointed out over and over that the kits and artwork are placeholder to give a general idea of what the product would entail and aren't yet final.

There could be new kits designed specifically for this range, as far as we know at this point.

There are no new kits designed specifically for this range. Again, the confirmation that there are no new moulds being made for this has already been posted in this thread.

Sorry, maybe I've missed something here? Where did that get said?

All I've seen is some dude say he spoke to a dude at a toy fair..... I don't want to take anything away from the awesome dude who shared all this info (thanks again!) but this could be a complete misunderstanding and the GW dude said 'THESE models are not new sprues'

In my experience, guy on the stand at toy fair is not privy to all the management information.

The Ork "ard boyz" box set looks like a bunch of the Assault on Black Reach Orks re-cut onto a sprue. Well alot of the spruces that were showen off were repacks of existing ones, that ork set was new. I recalled that the SM and orks parts were fairly spread out/mixed across the sprues in black reach. So something to consider, especially if the contents were open to change.

 Lockark wrote:

The Ork "ard boyz" box set looks like a bunch of the Assault on Black Reach Orks re-cut onto a sprue.

It's not recut. That's one of the sprues, as is, from the original box.

Again, also covered earlier in the thread.

Yeah, it's the other sprue that has some marines and orks together.