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Still I'm not complaining to much.

Flayer Troupe:

Herald: [LOB, GE, EB] = 115 pts
Daemonettes: [20X: Alluress, GE] = 205 pts
Daemonettes: [10X] = 90 pts
Daemonettes: [10X] = 90 pts
Daemonettes: [10X] = 90 pts
Daemonettes: [10X] = 90 pts
Daemonettes: [10X] = 90 pts

Total: 770 pts

Grand Cavalcade:

Herald: [LOB, GE, EB, Mount] = 130 pts
Seekers: [15X: Heartseeker, GE] = 205 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts

Total: 535 pts

- 2 Heralds, 70 infantry models, 15 cavalry models, and 5 chariots for 1,305 pts, leaving 695 point free in a 2,000 pt list.

Or I could go cheap on the Cavalcade:

Herald: [LOB, GE, EB, Chariot] = 145 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts
Seeker Chariots [1X] = 40 pts

Total: 385 pts

- That would give me: 2 Heralds, 70 infantry models, and 6 chariots for 1,155 pts; leaving 845 pts free in a 2,000 pts list.


- So I could take a sizable Emperor Children CAD taken from CSM: Crimson Slaughter. Take a Slaanesh Lord, some MSU Blastmaster squads to camp my backfield objectives, either Bikes or Raptor for deep striking melta, and 6-9 obliterators.
- Or take a CAD or Tau and proxy the Fire warriors as noise marines and the battlesuits as Slaanesh Subjugators.
- Or I could be "That Guy" and take a "fallen" Farseer, seer council and some scatterbikes.

"The formations included are awesome too; [...] Seriously, all the formations are this cool."

Stop, WD team...

Just stop

I feel like a tally with cavalcade might be good actually. Take the bell for -1 ld for tge slaanesh powers and laugh.

So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

 vercingatorix wrote:
So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

Probably you can. But still that doesn't make him Fatey.

 avedominusnox wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

Probably you can. But still that doesn't make him Fatey.

IDK, if the DP can carry grimoire as well? I'd probably take that over the screamerstar.

 vercingatorix wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

Probably you can. But still that doesn't make him Fatey.

IDK, if the DP can carry grimoire as well? I'd probably take that over the screamerstar.

I mean, that and the Screamerstar are two wildly different things. Like, extremely different.

But, it's not bad. Having two FMCs with guaranteed D shots is pretty good, even if you have to get them off on WC3. There's a pretty decent chance that you can just Swoop them across the table and then instagib an Imperial Knight before it can even activate shields in the Shooting Phase. And that's not nothing.

 avedominusnox wrote:
Phantasmagoria has some potential. Great antideathstar power. If nurgle relic gives -1 ld it can be powerful. And for 1 WC hell yes.
Do you think plague drones and palanquin heralds will work? I can see some great tactic there. Though movement will be a problem. New nurgle power will be great for this unit.

Plague drones + FnP heralds have always been a thing. You just run a blob of 6-8 so you can chain the drones up really far. Then you use the 6" pile in +consolidation a turn to get the herald up into CC as well.

A model can take rewards and in addition buy a relic. I think that a screamerstar is a safer Grimoire holder. Still I don't place my bet on screamerstar, I think the new psychic rules wrecked this unit..

Requizen wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

Probably you can. But still that doesn't make him Fatey.

IDK, if the DP can carry grimoire as well? I'd probably take that over the screamerstar.

I mean, that and the Screamerstar are two wildly different things. Like, extremely different.

But, it's not bad. Having two FMCs with guaranteed D shots is pretty good, even if you have to get them off on WC3. There's a pretty decent chance that you can just Swoop them across the table and then instagib an Imperial Knight before it can even activate shields in the Shooting Phase. And that's not nothing.

Well, the knights shields are up at deployment but you can also just fly around it turn 2 and hit the unshielded sides.

I look at the screamer star as a mobile summoning unit. If you had a level 3 DP then you can put two on telepathic and a summoning. That serves a purpose pretty damn close to fatey. If both of them are near each other and cast those novas plus D, plus flickering fire, plus psychic shriek(well, 3 of those for DP), that's pretty brutal. The fact that they're flying means you don't have to spend spell points on buff powers(sometimes you do as well obviously). I just find that my screamerstar usually doesn't kill all that much compared to fateweaver. Having two fateweaver damage outputs would be pretty freaking awesome.

Also, I play daemon as allies so I have units to fill the space in the middle of the board to stop the opponent from slaughtering my warp charge batteries in the back field. That'll be a problem without screamerstar to phsycally stand in the way.

Well, the Screamerstar isn't about killing things. It's super fast, runs around, kills off light units with Assault, and Summons.

A ML3 HoTz on a disc (no Rewards) is 120 points. A Tzeentch DP with ML3 Wings and Armor is 305. Screamerstar also gives you double the MLs on something that has more wounds, which is really where the strength is.

Princes are strong, but T5 with no Eternal Warrior or built in FNP means they can go down alarmingly quickly. Screamerstar has a lot of buffer wounds and mobility to deny that.

Again, not saying Princes are bad, but even with the changes to Psychic it's easy to see why people bring Screamerstar as a more reliable Psychic unit.

The strength of the Prince is to have Swooping mode on top of a possible Grim boost for durability, and extreme Assault prowess if it comes down to having a scrap.

 vercingatorix wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

Probably you can. But still that doesn't make him Fatey.

IDK, if the DP can carry grimoire as well? I'd probably take that over the screamerstar.

I mean, that and the Screamerstar are two wildly different things. Like, extremely different.

But, it's not bad. Having two FMCs with guaranteed D shots is pretty good, even if you have to get them off on WC3. There's a pretty decent chance that you can just Swoop them across the table and then instagib an Imperial Knight before it can even activate shields in the Shooting Phase. And that's not nothing.

Well, the knights shields are up at deployment but you can also just fly around it turn 2 and hit the unshielded sides.

I look at the screamer star as a mobile summoning unit. If you had a level 3 DP then you can put two on telepathic and a summoning. That serves a purpose pretty damn close to fatey. If both of them are near each other and cast those novas plus D, plus flickering fire, plus psychic shriek(well, 3 of those for DP), that's pretty brutal. The fact that they're flying means you don't have to spend spell points on buff powers(sometimes you do as well obviously). I just find that my screamerstar usually doesn't kill all that much compared to fateweaver. Having two fateweaver damage outputs would be pretty freaking awesome.

Also, I play daemon as allies so I have units to fill the space in the middle of the board to stop the opponent from slaughtering my warp charge batteries in the back field. That'll be a problem without screamerstar to phsycally stand in the way.

It's a strong bet that the 'Loremaster Tzeentch' relic will have a rule that overrides rolling normally for any powers. Instead, you just get all 7 Tzeentch powers. So almost certainly no tag-teaming it on the same model with 7 Tzeentch powers + Psy Shriek & Summoning.

Is this even legal? Is it any good? What's the F'ing point of even doing it if I can take 3 burning chariots and a nice screamerstar as a CD CAD (like I already do)

1850pts

CSM CAD:
Ahriman (Warlord)
8 TS-Rhino
7 TS- Rhino

Burning Skyhost Formation:
Herald of Tz: Disc
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

Allied Chaos D Detachment:
Herald of Tz: Disc, Grimoire
10 Pink Horrors
5 Screamers

My current 1850 is:
Ahriman
8 Terminators- MoTz
9 TS- Rhino
9 TS- Rhino
Fateweaver
Herald- Disc, Grimoire
11 Horrors
11 Horrors
7 Screamers


In fact, why even take the damn formation at all?

1840ish
Ahriman
9 TS- Rhino
9 TS- Rhino

CD CAD:
Herald: Disc, Grimoire
11 Horrors
11 Horrors
6 Screamers
6 Screamers
6 Screamers
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

Hooray, now I can do slashing attacks without that stupid Warpflame

Let's hope that won't happen. But judging GW till now I doubt.

The first post on the tzeentch psychic powers said it was 1 + D6 strength but the most recent one says its D6. I have a bad feeling that the D6 one is correct.

D6 averages 1.57 wounds on a T4 target while 1 + D6 averages 1.9. A fairly big difference. WC 1 averages 1.94 on a T4 target(with WAY less variance) so basically 1 + D6 means that its pretty similar to flickering fire but D6 means you're better off going with flickering fire.

But if you have 2 targets you can hit than even with a D6 strength you're going to average more wounds and the odds only get better the more you have.

and ignore cover will be huge depending on the target and Ap 4. Ork bikers, path finders, most non-marine objective grabbers will be very sad, especially if you can grab a handful of squads. I'm assuming the nova range is 9"?

 Brometheus wrote:
Is this even legal? Is it any good? What's the F'ing point of even doing it if I can take 3 burning chariots and a nice screamerstar as a CD CAD (like I already do)

1850pts

CSM CAD:
Ahriman (Warlord)
8 TS-Rhino
7 TS- Rhino

Burning Skyhost Formation:
Herald of Tz: Disc
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
3 Screamers
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

Allied Chaos D Detachment:
Herald of Tz: Disc, Grimoire
10 Pink Horrors
5 Screamers

My current 1850 is:
Ahriman
8 Terminators- MoTz
9 TS- Rhino
9 TS- Rhino
Fateweaver
Herald- Disc, Grimoire
11 Horrors
11 Horrors
7 Screamers


In fact, why even take the damn formation at all?

1840ish
Ahriman
9 TS- Rhino
9 TS- Rhino

CD CAD:
Herald: Disc, Grimoire
11 Horrors
11 Horrors
6 Screamers
6 Screamers
6 Screamers
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot
Burning Chariot

Hooray, now I can do slashing attacks without that stupid Warpflame

Well, yeah. But then you miss out on those sweet Decurion rules. Not as important for mono-Tzeentch players, though.

I think the d6+1 is from the formation. Might be wrong though.

 Swampmist wrote:
I think the d6+1 is from the formation. Might be wrong though.

ah, that would make sense. D6 + 2 is pretty dirty if its not already included.

 vercingatorix wrote:
The first post on the tzeentch psychic powers said it was 1 + D6 strength but the most recent one says its D6. I have a bad feeling that the D6 one is correct.

D6 averages 1.57 wounds on a T4 target while 1 + D6 averages 1.9. A fairly big difference. WC 1 averages 1.94 on a T4 target(with WAY less variance) so basically 1 + D6 means that its pretty similar to flickering fire but D6 means you're better off going with flickering fire.

But if you have 2 targets you can hit than even with a D6 strength you're going to average more wounds and the odds only get better the more you have.

and ignore cover will be huge depending on the target and Ap 4. Ork bikers, path finders, most non-marine objective grabbers will be very sad, especially if you can grab a handful of squads. I'm assuming the nova range is 9"?

Talking about Tzeentch's Warpflare, the new nova? Unless there's a misprint on the card, its definitely D6 Strength. The D6+1 strength is the existing Tzeentch's Firestorm power.

Of course there is the formation that gives +1S to all Warpflame attacks, and the Exalted Locus on your Herald that gives +1S to all Psychic Powers so you can potentially make it D6+2 Strength.

If you want to take advantage of the good new stuff, depending on the exact wording of the artifacts, I am thinking something along the following for 1850:

CAD
1x Fateweaver (Warlord)
1x Lord of Change, lvl 3, lesser gift, 3++ artifact (and greater gift if also allowed)
11x Horrors
11x Horrors
2x Burning Chariots

CAD
1x Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 3, greater gift (grimmoire), artifact disc of auto-reserve
1x Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 3, artifact of paradox auto-pass
11x Horrors

Allied
1x Sorceror, lvl 3
5x Chaos Marines
1x Rhino, death of kasyr lutien upgrade
1x Chaos Fire Raptor, balefire missiles, vessel of tzenkah the occluder

This gives you two flying MCs that can summon or cast D shots/novas in the backline of the enemy army, each with hopefully a re-rollable 2++. The Lord of Change is also great in melee. Fateweaver is your warlord for the warp storm table.

You have 20 psychic dice, paradox lets you auto-pass something, and the rhino exponentially increases your odds of getting off daemonology spells with less dice. You can bring in the Fire Raptor turn 1 or 2 automatically, depending on how the disc is worded. There are plenty of horrors to sacrifice for more tzeentch heralds. You can also reserve the chariots and deep strike them in with cursed earth for torrent flamers or side lascannon shots. And when you start drowning in psychic dice, you can now summon burning chariots on top of the normal daemonology stuff.

You should be able to summon at least 30 daemon infantry models a turn with this army, probably more.

My thought - if you take the 3++ on a Tzeentch Daemon Prince, should you also buy 3+ armor? On one hand, you can save points and it doesn't matter at first. On the other, if you fail a save on the 3++ you might explode if you fail the Leadership as well, so if you can choose to take the 3+ against non AP3 guns, it's better. 20 points is 20 points, though.

 Virules wrote:
If you want to take advantage of the good new stuff, depending on the exact wording of the artifacts, I am thinking something along the following for 1850:

CAD
1x Fateweaver (Warlord)
1x Lord of Change, lvl 3, lesser gift, 3++ artifact (and greater gift if also allowed)
11x Horrors
11x Horrors
2x Burning Chariots

CAD
1x Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 3, greater gift (grimmoire), artifact disc of auto-reserve
1x Herald of Tzeentch, lvl 3, artifact of paradox auto-pass
11x Horrors

Allied
1x Sorceror, lvl 3
5x Chaos Marines
1x Rhino, death of kasyr lutien upgrade
1x Chaos Fire Raptor, balefire missiles, vessel of tzenkah the occluder

This gives you two flying MCs that can summon or cast D shots/novas in the backline of the enemy army, each with hopefully a re-rollable 2++. The Lord of Change is also great in melee. Fateweaver is your warlord for the warp storm table.

You have 20 psychic dice, paradox lets you auto-pass something, and the rhino exponentially increases your odds of getting off daemonology spells with less dice. You can bring in the Fire Raptor turn 1 or 2 automatically, depending on how the disc is worded. There are plenty of horrors to sacrifice for more tzeentch heralds. You can also reserve the chariots and deep strike them in with cursed earth for torrent flamers or side lascannon shots. And when you start drowning in psychic dice, you can now summon burning chariots on top of the normal daemonology stuff.

You should be able to summon at least 30 daemon infantry models a turn with this army, probably more.

What a beautiful list! Although taking it to a tournament would require lightning fast play and the ability to pull out piles of daemons quickly it looks like.

So, outside of the Soulgrinders (which we don't know) are any of the formations worth taking? The only one I can do right now without buying a crap ton of more guys is the Khorne one, by taking a Herald on a Juggernaut and 8 squads of 5 dogs, which might be fun.

I think I'd rather put the artifact that guarentees the LOC has all the change powers on him than the 3+. You'll probably fail one of his leaderships and kill him off before his time but i guess you might use one of Fatey's re-rolls on the first wound he fails to make that a true 2+ re-roll.

 jreilly89 wrote:
So, outside of the Soulgrinders (which we don't know) are any of the formations worth taking? The only one I can do right now without buying a crap ton of more guys is the Khorne one, by taking a Herald on a Juggernaut and 8 squads of 5 dogs, which might be fun.

we got the soulgrinder formation on the last page


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:

 avedominusnox wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So, Can you give a daemon prince the relic that lets them know all the tzeentch powers? Cause then you can have two fateweavers.

Probably you can. But still that doesn't make him Fatey.

IDK, if the DP can carry grimoire as well? I'd probably take that over the screamerstar.

I mean, that and the Screamerstar are two wildly different things. Like, extremely different.

But, it's not bad. Having two FMCs with guaranteed D shots is pretty good, even if you have to get them off on WC3. There's a pretty decent chance that you can just Swoop them across the table and then instagib an Imperial Knight before it can even activate shields in the Shooting Phase. And that's not nothing.

Well, the knights shields are up at deployment but you can also just fly around it turn 2 and hit the unshielded sides.

I look at the screamer star as a mobile summoning unit. If you had a level 3 DP then you can put two on telepathic and a summoning. That serves a purpose pretty damn close to fatey. If both of them are near each other and cast those novas plus D, plus flickering fire, plus psychic shriek(well, 3 of those for DP), that's pretty brutal. The fact that they're flying means you don't have to spend spell points on buff powers(sometimes you do as well obviously). I just find that my screamerstar usually doesn't kill all that much compared to fateweaver. Having two fateweaver damage outputs would be pretty freaking awesome.

Also, I play daemon as allies so I have units to fill the space in the middle of the board to stop the opponent from slaughtering my warp charge batteries in the back field. That'll be a problem without screamerstar to phsycally stand in the way.

It's a strong bet that the 'Loremaster Tzeentch' relic will have a rule that overrides rolling normally for any powers. Instead, you just get all 7 Tzeentch powers. So almost certainly no tag-teaming it on the same model with 7 Tzeentch powers + Psy Shriek & Summoning.

please don't say that...

Red_Drake wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
So, outside of the Soulgrinders (which we don't know) are any of the formations worth taking? The only one I can do right now without buying a crap ton of more guys is the Khorne one, by taking a Herald on a Juggernaut and 8 squads of 5 dogs, which might be fun.

we got the soulgrinder formation on the last page

Well, groovy, thanks. Aaaaaaaand that's disappointing.

I dunno... it is only kill a model. makes snapfiring easier? yay? too bad most of the grinder's weapons are already wouding on 2s

How does +1 to hit work with blasts?

It doesn't.

Yeah it's about the worst possible thing GW could have given the formation. They decided to copy-paste all the terrible Apoc formations, and only change the one that was actually decent, and to make it something useless.

Typical GW design approach to Chaos, sigh.

I just thought of a way to make the Exalted Flamers better; Take Ahriman in a CAD for D3 Infiltrators, and then infiltrate them up and Baleflame things.