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okay, just a show of hands who's with me?its about high time for a new warmaster! i love chaos they have awesome fluff right up until you get to this huge tool that gw seems to be still trying to shove down everyone's throat. am i the only one that would throw a party if failbaddon finally just bit it? id rather see chaos without a *grand leader* so to speak, than to see this goof make another crack at mankind.

and honestly im really sick of seeing his name in my gameplay stuff, at this point its more of a minirant/personal problem, but no i dont want my warlord trait to be "abbadons chosen" and all the other new formation things that quote to be directly related to the glorious loser. why would anyone want their forces named or in any way associated with some guy thats given all the resources and favors chaos can muster still cant even do anything remotely cool. not to mention his whole look is that of a cheap ripped off horus, not in a good way, horus was deadly and he could.get gak done and was great abbaddon is like deciding last minute not to have steak but settling for micky Ds instead then just regretting it. *sigh* end rant

anyway thats my two bits are there any computer savvy individuals out there that know of or willing to.make a petition i really think we should try. abbys gotta go

Cheers!

Great idea. While we are at it, we should make one regarding Sisters too. It hasn't been done EVER!

Booo we just got 3 supplements recently, decent up to date FW rules, and the ability to play 30k. Give us MOAR AND GIVE IT NOW!

 oldzoggy wrote:
Booo we just got 3 supplements recently....

Well, re-releases of the same supplements with 1/2 a page each of stuff that was taken from other rulebooks / formations. Maybe there was something new? Not enough to justify the price tag though.


I'm tired of Abaddon - He's cool and everything... if you happen to like Black Legion. For everyone else, it's a bore having him and the Black Legion as the 'expected way to play', especially when the normal codex is essentially Chaos Undivided / Black Legion in all but name.


At the end of the day though, I'd rather petition for a new codex (and not just a re-print of the same bad rules with a splatter of content included from campaign books).

Have you guys even read Talon of Horus? Its awesome. And has sequels planned. Abby's just getting started.

A new chaos codex would be nice tho.

i hear the feels on the wishing for new dex and i too was a little disappointed with the copy and paste release of the 2 old supplements, but what i dont get is why does there have to be a black legion supp.....? i mean really as stated above the vanilla codex is essentially just that, would it be a bad idea to have an all encompassing codex supplement for chaos based on their former legions? how cool would.it be to have the option to make your chaos legions actually have little special rules or "chapter tactics" if you will to spice up your chaos. i think that would be much better, and easier to release than a new codex, itd work similar to black legion, everyone needs vets of the long war and then based on your legions flavor you get little tid bits as a boost. and since all the legions were effectively similar setups in the days of old HH the formations could be blanket.

my two cents anyway, personally i really like the chaos codex and i run a mostly infantry list-recently went from CAD to the new black legion warband formation. granted the book(s) arent as competitive as most but so far running against primarily grey knights terminators and dreadknights my chaos have yet to lose, i just get bad taste in my mouth every time i look up rules and see failbaddons name all over the dam book lol

Ugh Choas has the following options at the moment.

Codex Chaos Daemons
Codex CSM
Be'lakor
IA13 inc renegades
Khorne Daemon kin
Warzone Fenris
Black Legion
Crimson Slaughter
30K
FW Choas knights
GW Choas knights
& A Huge collection of novels.

Pls stop asking for more stuff you are already the army with the most stuff out side the Imperium. You No non imperium faction can even come close to this. Sure the codex sucks, ask for that. Do not ask for more stuff it makes you look like that fat kid who cries because his ice cream only has 1 ball. Also stop asking for other heroes you already have more ( non abbadon) heroes with there own models, novels and army builds then any other non imperial army.

 oldzoggy wrote:

Pls stop asking for more stuff you are already the army with the most stuff out side the Imperium. You No non imperium faction can even come close to this. Sure the codex sucks, ask for that. Do not ask for more stuff it makes you look like that fat kid who cries because his ice cream only has 1 ball. Also stop asking for other heroes you already have more ( non abbadon) heroes with there own models, novels and army builds then any other non imperial army.

Eh? No one has asked for new characters and stuff.

So far it's been ''They re-released some books without actually fixing the issues'' and ''Stop making everything about Abaddon, there are plenty of others to focus on''.


I don't really get why you're insulting people, some of us play multiple armies and know all too-well just how neglected forces like Dark Eldar and Orks are. Bit uncalled for?

Abaddon isn't the problem. The problem is that GW is overly protective of their IoM. This is evident by the fact, during the 13th black crusade campaign, chaos had an overwhelming victory on the planet of Cadia which should have lead to the destruction of the pilons. But instead GW decided to just say chaos had majority control over Cadia just so chaos wouldn't steam roll their poor little imperium.

Don't get mad at Abaddon, no matter who leads chaos GW will always find a way for them to fail in their task to destroy the IoM.

 Wulfmar wrote:
Stop making everything about Abaddon, there are plenty of others to focus on''.

It isn't all about him at all. Just read some other stuff then the abaddon books.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
okay, just a show of hands who's with me?its about high time for a new warmaster!

Go and play 30k.

id rather see chaos without a *grand leader*... ...and honestly im really sick of seeing his name in my gameplay stuff, at this point its more of a minirant/personal problem, but no i dont want my warlord trait to be "abbadons chosen" and all the other new formation

Go and play the crimson supplement or renegades. You don't have to use the abbadon book.

...be directly related to the glorious loser.

Choas will always be the glorious loser. Face it you are the bad guys / Not the imperium in this Sifi fairy tale so any character leading the big crusade will eventually lose unless they decide to kill off the setting.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
Stop making everything about Abaddon, there are plenty of others to focus on''.

It isn't all about him at all. Just read some other stuff then the abaddon books. Face it you are the bad guys / Not the imperium in this Sifi fairy tale so any character leading the big crusade will eventually lose unless they decide to kill off the setting.

I was never arguing that? And I frankly don't care if Abaddon or even Chaos fails - At no point have I argued any of this or suggested it.


Maybe if I clarify for you: The Chaos Codex builds are Chaos Undivided with a Black Legion Bias (as opposed to particularly favouring a mono-God). Most of the fluff is focussed on Abaddon, but it would be nice to hear about Typhus, Ahriman, Kharn of Lucius causing more of the destruction or leading campaigns themselves (but this is a fluff concern and we can ignore that for the most part). It's the crunch that if you try and run anything other than the favoured Chaos Undivided / Black Legion template, you're handicapped by point cost and rules. The only real partial remedies are Crimson Slaughter (but something based around possessed, a bad unit, doesn't make it much better) and Khorne Daemonkin, which is good for Khorne fans and no one else.

What has been pointed out by another is that having Legion Tactics (just like the Loyalists have Chapter tactics) to add flavour as well as modifications to the existing rules would make the situation more tolerable.

 Wulfmar wrote:
just like the Loyalists have ..

This is the problem stop comparing yourselves with loyalists and you will be happy. Really it is just that simple.

I play Loyalists (Marines and Inquisition), I play Chaos, I also play Dark Eldar and Orks

What's wrong with looking at the different factions and making a judgement based on experience?

The alternative is to make a 40k version of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6em5XNkiIA

I think there's a difference between Chaos winning stuff in the fluff (which you're focussing on) and which I'm not bothered about in the long run and have only suggested alternative or varied plots (like just what IS Ahriman up to while Abaddon is doing his thing?)

and Chaos being on par with other factions in a gaming sense for literal game-play. Which is my gripe with all the books.



This all being said and done, someone made the suggestion in another thread to use the Loyalist Codex and proxy everything with Chaos. It's a good idea.

wheres all the hate coming from lol!?

this is in no way a post to cry about the codex as i said before would it be cool.to have some new generic rule flavoring and customizable armies ya absolutely, the reason its longed for is because next to loyalists yea chaos is probably second to having the most various and coloured backgrounds just based on the legions not even counting the gods.

please dont send a list of random things to pull little chunks of rules out of. im aware theres multiple sources but getting one or two little specific things here and there isnt that great that's all. my chaos army is alpha legion care to show me supplement rules them or anything really for them? or how bout night lords, emporers children etc not like any of them were major at any point in time right? dont say 30k if i wanted to play 30k i probably wouldve stated that in the beginning, im talking about 40k.

im.aware the grand scheme of things the storyline will never truly progress and yes beng the bad guys we gotta.lose and thats fine, its not what im.talking about. im saying abbadon is a tool through and through and thats also why hes like what the only.character off the top.of.my head thats been givin the nickname from basically everyone that incorporates fail....why? because he sucks n is generally disliked with an ugly model, yawn for a story but seems to have his gak plastered everywhere. again thats my personal take on him and from what ive seen over the years is the general feel of him from others too.

but ya all im reaaaaaalllly trying to say is that there's a lot of chaos to love and gameplay wise its being focused on very few things when it could.be lots and the most energy and time seems to be put on a single kinda gakky boring character when there are so many more deserving of some spotlight love. abbaddon is alot like kylo ren, just a gakky wannabe of.someone way fuckin cooler but unfortunately dead lol

ALSO id like to point out that NOWHERE did i say chaos supplements are bad or even the codex. i like them i have zero issues paying for my marks and i honestly beleive that with a tactical approach and moderate dice luck chaos can take on anyone, im simply longing for some rules or fluff diversity, because itd take minimal effort since everything is literally already there throughout the fluff just needs a little love

Abaddon's failures seem to generally only exist if you don't get what he was trying to do in that particular black crusade. Or when GW throws its hands over its ears and changes the outcome if chaos wins.

i tried to make a petition before and everyone said that it was not worth it, it really hurt me in the inside so i lost my intrest in dakka dakka the best i can say is good luck

honestly the impression I get right now is that GW's activly trying to turn abbaddon around and make him an intreasting and threatening villian, not a cartoon snidely whiplash villian.

would I like to see attention paid to other legions? absolutely. but I see nothing wrong with Abbaddon getting some love.

course I'd also dig an ultramarines supplement too

We should make a petition To Chaos.

Dear Chaos...

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
...i honestly beleive that with a tactical approach and moderate dice luck chaos can take on anyone....

That's same as saying that no one in the history of wargaming has been able to tactically aproach and have a moderate or better luck...ever...and never will be. I personally would just go with the CSM is "gak" since it really is the truth.

Abbadon and Ghazghkull Thraka are the greatest villains in 40K and the only ones' with the ability to bring down the imperium. The whole setting is about Abbadon destroying the imperium. Admittedly, he is able to do it not only because he's planning it since 10K years, uniting all of Chaos and because of 12 successful crusades but also because of all the other threads the imperium has to face, mainly Tyranids.
Killing Abbadon means the end of 40K, there's no one to replace him in a believable way (Perturabo? Ahriman? Khorne personally? I doubt it). Killing Abbadon means the Imperium has finally won against its greatest foe and consequently it can wipe out first Tau, then Eldar and then Tyranids, resulting in a boring mess like AoS

Haing said that, yes, the Black Legion is boring of course, it's just like ultramarines, gaming wise there's nothing special about it. Even in the 3.5 codex Black legion was already "vanilla chaos", with every specialization being legion specific.

Having a good codex that plays well in a few major styles would be good, but I don't have the enthusiasm for chaos anymore.
It's just kinda boring now the way GW uses it on the tabletop, and in the story's.

I think you could have 3 major books.
Chaos marines
Chaos daemons
Chaos cultests/mortals
Each one lets players play each God, or a combination with thought to how they achieve that.

From a lore or story perspective, all the major factions could have major victorys a year and it would still take 50 years for the plot to advance.
It's a story taking up a whole galaxy, with the imperium pushing back constantly and the difernt factions all bouncing off from each other's.
There is really no danger but bad writing ever eliminating any major faction from the game.
There is so much room for any of the major chaos leaders, old and new to push forward into the imperium and be pushed back through major loss and still be competent and powerful.

GW just not putting in the effort from there world building and is the major reason I am just not finding I care enough anymore.

15 major campaigns could all end in victory but major loses and a need to regroup for a new campaign could still mean a small small part of a galexy as a whole. 40k has so much space, but is feeling so small.

eh If I was gonna divide chaos into multiple codexes here's how I'd do it.

Chaos Deamons (self explainatory)
Legions of Chaos a codex focusing on the traitor legions, and other SM chapters that have been aligned with chaos for a long time. you'd see a lot of old equipment, lots of deamon engines and stuff
Chaos Renegades: this would focus more on more recently fallen space marine chapters. it'd have a lot more modern space marine equipment and would more have a chaos flavor then a "heavy on the chaos"
Lost and the Damned: traitor guard more or less


I really think one of the problems CSM have right now is there is sort of a divide in that CSMs are supposed to cover age old traitors, but also more newly fallen marines and IMHO this has lead to both being handled poorly.

I actuly think chaos renegades could be done with a chapter tactic in the space marine codex.
Give them a list of chaos artefacts for that tempted by a dark artefact fluff, and a possesd upgrade for tac squads and expand in a campagn book if needed
And then they can get a update every marine codex without needing to take up slots in there busy release schedule they allready have not space in. :(

Here is what I want for my beloved Chaos:

Ok, i want chaos daemons, marines and rengades to be discarded instead we get two codexes.

Chaos Daemonkin: All of the daemons and parts of the csm

Chaos undivided: CSM and Guard

Chaos Daemonkin:

The only restriction is that all units in any kind of detachment such as formation, allies, etc. Must take the same mark.
Formations will include csm and daemons
i.e slaanesh fiends and terminators. they get outflank and acute senses but they must have the slaanesh mark

My dream decurion for this codex:

1 core
1 command
1 aux

restriction: must have the same mark
benefits: depends on the mark

khorne= run and charge
nurgle= no overwatch +1 fnp
slaanesh= scout and acute senses
tzeentch= +1 warp charge dice for every wizard in the detachment to a maximum of 5

Chaos Undivided:

All csm and variants (including the chaos daemonkin) get the For The Glory Of Chaos!

FTGOC!: one model in a squad of 3 or more chaos space marines receives visions of himself as a champion of chaos, he therefore screams in heroic fashion and inspires his fellow brothers. The unit gains stubborn and may reroll failed leadership tests.

The legion rules will come with two benefits, the first being that it replaces the FTGOC! and the second being an extra benfit.

Legion Rules:

Black Legion: 1. replaced with veterans of the long war, they get hatred enemy imperials and they get the FTGOC!. 2. Icon bearers of the warmaster: all undivded icons may be replaced with abaddon icons, this means that they will provide a 6" bubble prefered enemy imperials

Alpha legion: 1. Master tactician: cannot be overrun if failed initiative test in combat and are not penalized after regrouping. 2. Master of the cult: all rengade guard have the outflank special rule (only infantry)

Iron warriors: 1. stubborn, logical and paranoid: they gain stubborn and cannot fail leadership tests except when in combat. 2. Master of seigecraft: Tank Hunter, and reroll for armour pentration rolls for fortifications

Night lords: 1. Master of fear: fear at -1 leadership 2. Masters of ambush: roll for nightfighting at 4+ for turn 1 5+ for turn 2 and 6+ for turn 3, they ignore the cover saves of night fighting treat daemons as allies of convenience

Word bearers: 1. unholy zealotry: zealot 2. dark apostles can sacrifice characters and summon a squad of 6 daemonets, 7 plaguebearers , 8 bloodletters or 9 pink horrors

i have more but i have to go right now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
new chaos space marines weapon:

not accessible by players that use night lords and alpha legion.

malefic bolter: str 4 ap 4 assualt 3, daemonic hunger

daemonic hunger= +str -1 ap for every kill obtained by the weapon until it reaches str 7 ap 1

malefic bolt pistol: str 4 ap4 assault 1

heavy malefic bolter: str 6 ap 4 salvo 3/6

THEN MY ULTIMATE FANTASY:

a super war convo- like detachment where you get a core from either codex and then an auxiliary from the opposite codex

benefits are different based on the mark, but they get the benefits of the daemon mark, icon and mark for free

sorry i got sloppy at the end im typing this up at school, but im really dedicated to chaos so ya much love to chaos

Just one question. Why does CSM need to take some kind of disadvantage to get an advantage and even that advantage is pretty meaningless most of the time?

Great idea? Maybe. GW seems to listen to the customers finally. Petitions in the past have had very little impact. But things seem to change.

What do you want to petition for? GW doesn't know what to do with chaos and neither do the fans. Even in this thread there are different expectations. Everybody has different ideas about what chaos is and should be.

Also Abaddon isn't the leader of CSM. He's the main man of the Black Legion and that's it. He just also happens to be the only warlord who's interested in burning the imperium of man to a crisp and manages to get everybody else on the hype train every now and then. And you can't exactly blame GW for naming a formation after him in his own supplement lol.

I'm all for GW giving csm some much needed love but first GW needs to figure out what they want CSM to represent and the permanent introduction of crimson slaughter hasn't helped the issue imho.

You guys just got dual wielding knights.
And a starter kit to but them at a huge discount.

Seriously guys can't you at least be happy for a month about it.