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Greetings all,

Is there hints or info that something, anything, is coming down the pipe regarding a new edition of rules, or probably not?

I find this game impossible to keep up with since I play other systems, and that is in part to how commonly new source material is
released. that, I'm sure, is not going away. But the rest of it proves difficult as well.
Keeping my Nurgle, about to sell 2 other armies.

Thoughts? news I'm missing? Thanks.

ive heard murmurs of a 7.1 new rulebook with FAQ added in around xmas. Plus my understanding is that the new CEO is a player and is the reason we have things like new FAQ, the Start Collecting! boxes and all of these rather positive changes that have come about recently

Well, the recent FAQs and Start Collecting! boxes are hopefully a good sign of changes to come, however the new Death From the Skies is a whole awful mess.

I'd say things are looking up and change is coming, but it will probably take a while.

Either A) Sell some, but keep your main army in case things change or B) shelve them for now, wait for an 8th edition or a rules cleanup.*

*This assumes you're not currently having fun playing 40k.

This nebulous "change" I keep hearing people throw around has yet to fix the game. The new CEO is not the Messiah. Cutesy board games and social media engagement don't produce a good ruleset, and that's what the OP is asking about. The new FAQs are not a mechanical fix, and the new Death from the Skies is yet another indication that GW continues to produce content that no one is asking for that needlessly complicates the game.

However, unless you 1) absolutely have no attachment to your armies, 2) never intend to come back to 28mm sci-fi, or 3) really just need the money, I would never recommend anyone sell their minis.

STOP THE PRESSES!!!

RazorEdge wrote:
From War of Sigmar commentary:

Expect 40k to have a shake up later in the year!
"It won't be as drastic as Warhammer, but it will be quite a change."
More stream lined and easier to pick...

I was talking to Ally Morrison and Adam Dunn (They were near the entrance) I know Adam from a while back and during our chat 40k came up...
Well about how cumbersome it's become.
Any way.
He said the quote above....

So...maybe?

 jreilly89 wrote:
Well, the recent FAQs and Start Collecting! boxes are hopefully a good sign of changes to come, however the new Death From the Skies is a whole awful mess.

I keep seeing things like this mentioned. I feel like you seem to understand that change takes time, but I don't think that most people realize why. Most of the products that have been released were in development LONG before Kirby got the boot. Plastics take months to be produced from the initial sculpt to the molding, to the cooling process that I don't think most people even consider. Likewise, books and rules take months of development. We are still dealing with the tail end of the Kirby era, hence why the releases seem so schizophrenic in terms of quality. The FAQ is undoubtedly the biggest sign of things to come. We as a community are about to become much more involved in the development of the game through our feedback. While criticism will help the game dramatically, everyone needs to keep in mind that it is not the same thing as negativity.

Again, I'm not aiming this at you, jreilly89. Most of your comments are constructive. Your post just felt like a good jumping-off point for my mini-rant.

I'm hanging onto mine right now. Value for used 40k stuff is extremely low as a lot of people have flooded the market. Odds are you will not get a good return on your investment based on the deals I've picked up just encountering random people selling off armies for a song.

The new CEO isn't the Messiah yet, but he's the best hope I've seen for the game ever since I started. I'm mothballing my stuff for the time being, playing other games, painting, and keeping an eye on the news as well as reading scans of new books or checking them out in FLGS's to see if the rules are improving. The FAQ is a good sign. Ultimately it doesn't really fix the core issues the game has, but it's a start and shows they understand it needs work. Prices are still outlandish for books, but I'd imagine if they're going to revamp the pricing strategy they'll save it for the release of an 8th edition so it makes the biggest splash and doesn't screw over retailers who bought their inventory at the old cost.

In addition, I'm still worried about all the expansion books we're getting, but I'd imagine much of what we've seen is still stuff that was designed in the Kirby era, and still carries that mantra of "better buy it for the new shinies!" If this is still going on a year from now then I'll be worried.

I'd say hang onto them for now. Unless your armies are beautiful, you're not gonna get Jack diddly squat for them, and if the game gets saved by 8th you'll wish you kept them. Alternatively, if the game dies you may be able to sell them for more later on after its OOP (however unlikely that I'd)

 EnTyme wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Well, the recent FAQs and Start Collecting! boxes are hopefully a good sign of changes to come, however the new Death From the Skies is a whole awful mess.

I keep seeing things like this mentioned. I feel like you seem to understand that change takes time, but I don't think that most people realize why. Most of the products that have been released were in development LONG before Kirby got the boot. Plastics take months to be produced from the initial sculpt to the molding, to the cooling process that I don't think most people even consider. Likewise, books and rules take months of development. We are still dealing with the tail end of the Kirby era, hence why the releases seem so schizophrenic in terms of quality. The FAQ is undoubtedly the biggest sign of things to come. We as a community are about to become much more involved in the development of the game through our feedback. While criticism will help the game dramatically, everyone needs to keep in mind that it is not the same thing as negativity.

Again, I'm not aiming this at you, jreilly89. Most of your comments are constructive. Your post just felt like a good jumping-off point for my mini-rant.

I agree, and I totally understand the length of development, but I also know that pulling the brake on a speeding train may fail and the train may keep spiraling out of control it'll be interesting to see if GW keeps this up and improves. Maybe they'll earn back some of the WarmaHordes/X-Wing players?

 EnTyme wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Well, the recent FAQs and Start Collecting! boxes are hopefully a good sign of changes to come, however the new Death From the Skies is a whole awful mess.

I keep seeing things like this mentioned. I feel like you seem to understand that change takes time, but I don't think that most people realize why. Most of the products that have been released were in development LONG before Kirby got the boot. Plastics take months to be produced from the initial sculpt to the molding, to the cooling process that I don't think most people even consider. Likewise, books and rules take months of development. We are still dealing with the tail end of the Kirby era, hence why the releases seem so schizophrenic in terms of quality. The FAQ is undoubtedly the biggest sign of things to come. We as a community are about to become much more involved in the development of the game through our feedback. While criticism will help the game dramatically, everyone needs to keep in mind that it is not the same thing as negativity.

Again, I'm not aiming this at you, jreilly89. Most of your comments are constructive. Your post just felt like a good jumping-off point for my mini-rant.

So, which products and/or ideas have the Kirby stamp and which ones have the Rountree stamp? In your corporate experience, how long is this transition period? Or is everyone just to assume that Kirby = bad and New CEO = good? I need to know so I can stop being blindly negative and start being blindly positive.

When GW stops writing garbage rules, I will then say that they no longer write garbage rules. It really is that simple.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Well, the recent FAQs and Start Collecting! boxes are hopefully a good sign of changes to come, however the new Death From the Skies is a whole awful mess.

I keep seeing things like this mentioned. I feel like you seem to understand that change takes time, but I don't think that most people realize why. Most of the products that have been released were in development LONG before Kirby got the boot. Plastics take months to be produced from the initial sculpt to the molding, to the cooling process that I don't think most people even consider. Likewise, books and rules take months of development. We are still dealing with the tail end of the Kirby era, hence why the releases seem so schizophrenic in terms of quality. The FAQ is undoubtedly the biggest sign of things to come. We as a community are about to become much more involved in the development of the game through our feedback. While criticism will help the game dramatically, everyone needs to keep in mind that it is not the same thing as negativity.

Again, I'm not aiming this at you, jreilly89. Most of your comments are constructive. Your post just felt like a good jumping-off point for my mini-rant.

So, which products and/or ideas have the Kirby stamp and which ones have the Rountree stamp? In your corporate experience, how long is this transition period? Or is everyone just to assume that Kirby = bad and New CEO = good? I need to know so I can stop being blindly negative and start being blindly positive.

When GW stops writing garbage rules, I will then say that they no longer write garbage rules. It really is that simple.

...k? Thanks for the input.

 Alpharius wrote:
STOP THE PRESSES!!!

RazorEdge wrote:
From War of Sigmar commentary:

Expect 40k to have a shake up later in the year!
"It won't be as drastic as Warhammer, but it will be quite a change."
More stream lined and easier to pick...

I was talking to Ally Morrison and Adam Dunn (They were near the entrance) I know Adam from a while back and during our chat 40k came up...
Well about how cumbersome it's become.
Any way.
He said the quote above....

So...maybe?

Did you guys miss this?

Or just not believe it?

Or maybe you all have me on ignore?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
STOP THE PRESSES!!!

RazorEdge wrote:
From War of Sigmar commentary:

Expect 40k to have a shake up later in the year!
"It won't be as drastic as Warhammer, but it will be quite a change."
More stream lined and easier to pick...

I was talking to Ally Morrison and Adam Dunn (They were near the entrance) I know Adam from a while back and during our chat 40k came up...
Well about how cumbersome it's become.
Any way.
He said the quote above....

So...maybe?

Did you guys miss this?

Or just not believe it?

Or maybe you all have me on ignore?

Alpharius, it's hard to believe it's you, so that's probably why they missed it I did see that, and I hope something comes of it. Any word on if it's 8th edition or a 40k Sigmar style?

Can't find the Mod Ignore button...

I guess I'll believe the rumors of a new ruleset when I actually read the new 40K rules and they're not a hot mess. Until then, I have no faith that they can fix what they've broken. They have intertwined their marketing and sales so intimately with the rules that I don't see a way where they can move product and create balance at the same time. Apocalypse was rolled into 40K because they wanted to sell big robots, and you can't do that if the big robots only hit the table once or twice a year for a 20,000 point game.

Ten or twelve years ago, you could fracture the fanbase and there would be enough to sustain all the little bits. I don't believe that to be true anymore.

Never sell your last army unless you know you'll never play again, no matter how good the rules. If nothing can bring you back, sell it all off.

If you think you'd play again under the right circumstances, keep at least one painted army.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Can't find the Mod Ignore button...

I guess I'll believe the rumors of a new ruleset when I actually read the new 40K rules and they're not a hot mess. Until then, I have no faith that they can fix what they've broken. They have intertwined their marketing and sales so intimately with the rules that I don't see a way where they can move product and create balance at the same time. Apocalypse was rolled into 40K because they wanted to sell big robots, and you can't do that if the big robots only hit the table once or twice a year for a 20,000 point game.

Ten or twelve years ago, you could fracture the fanbase and there would be enough to sustain all the little bits. I don't believe that to be true anymore.

If you're that jaded, why do you continue to come on here and bemoan GW? I would imagine that, using your mindset, GW will never ever come back and make a good 40k game. Wouldn't the correct thing to do be to sell his armies, move onto Malifaux/X-Wing, and leave the 40k forums?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Can't find the Mod Ignore button...

I guess I'll believe the rumors of a new ruleset when I actually read the new 40K rules and they're not a hot mess. Until then, I have no faith that they can fix what they've broken. They have intertwined their marketing and sales so intimately with the rules that I don't see a way where they can move product and create balance at the same time. Apocalypse was rolled into 40K because they wanted to sell big robots, and you can't do that if the big robots only hit the table once or twice a year for a 20,000 point game.

Ten or twelve years ago, you could fracture the fanbase and there would be enough to sustain all the little bits. I don't believe that to be true anymore.

If you're that jaded, why do you continue to come on here and bemoan GW? I would imagine that, using your mindset, GW will never ever come back and make a good 40k game. Wouldn't the correct thing to do be to sell his armies, move onto Malifaux/X-Wing, and leave the 40k forums?

I think I answered the OP's question about what he should do. Did you not read my first post? If you don't find value in my posts, rather than being dismissive about my opinions, maybe you should just ignore them if their so egregious to your sensibilities.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Can't find the Mod Ignore button...

I guess I'll believe the rumors of a new ruleset when I actually read the new 40K rules and they're not a hot mess. Until then, I have no faith that they can fix what they've broken. They have intertwined their marketing and sales so intimately with the rules that I don't see a way where they can move product and create balance at the same time. Apocalypse was rolled into 40K because they wanted to sell big robots, and you can't do that if the big robots only hit the table once or twice a year for a 20,000 point game.

Ten or twelve years ago, you could fracture the fanbase and there would be enough to sustain all the little bits. I don't believe that to be true anymore.

If you're that jaded, why do you continue to come on here and bemoan GW? I would imagine that, using your mindset, GW will never ever come back and make a good 40k game. Wouldn't the correct thing to do be to sell his armies, move onto Malifaux/X-Wing, and leave the 40k forums?

I think I answered the OP's question about what he should do. Did you not read my first post? If you don't find value in my posts, rather than being dismissive about my opinions, maybe you should just ignore them if their so egregious to your sensibilities.

And did you not see mine? I agreed with you to an extent. I said that the changes aren't major, but it's something, time will tell. I think that's fair advice to give to OP. I did not exclaim that the holy grail of editions is right around the corner being shipped out next week, nor did I cover my eyes and proclaim that there is no hope. I am scrutinizingly positive.

I say keep the armies. Warhammer is one of those things that if things don't pan out, there will always be a market for second-hand stuff. We're only a few months away from the supposed shakeup so unless you desperately need the money, it's better to hang on to it for a bit longer.

Also ignore some of those naysayer's words; whenever a discussion about the future of GW comes up they pop out of the woodwork. I use to be one of them but GW has done right in the past few months so they've earned a second chance.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Also ignore some of those naysayer's words; whenever a discussion about the future of GW comes up they pop out of the woodwork. I use to be one of them but GW has done right in the past few months so they've earned a second chance.

People earn second chances, not products. And people earn second chances by showing meaningful change. Since 40K is neither a person, nor have the rues of 40K shown any appreciable change in direction--Death from the Skies would have been a great way to show this new direction--then I'll reserve my judgment.

But it's so much easier to say "haters gonna hate," isn't it?

Er, yeah...

Meanwhile:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/691067.page

Probably so much wish-listing and click-baiting right now, but who knows?

Sales must be truly going down if they are really planning to start putting serious effort into fixing the insane mess they've created during the last years.

And by "fixing" I mean a real rules shakeup, as the rumors say, because the FAQs are just the first ten steps in a marathon and nothing more.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Also ignore some of those naysayer's words; whenever a discussion about the future of GW comes up they pop out of the woodwork. I use to be one of them but GW has done right in the past few months so they've earned a second chance.

People earn second chances, not products. And people earn second chances by showing meaningful change. Since 40K is neither a person, nor have the rues of 40K shown any appreciable change in direction--Death from the Skies would have been a great way to show this new direction--then I'll reserve my judgment.

But it's so much easier to say "haters gonna hate," isn't it?

That was already covered. Death from the Skies was most likely already in development when change in command happened. That being said, it's got some cool rules, but its definitely more a campaign book than for general use.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, yeah...

Meanwhile:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/691067.page

Probably so much wish-listing and click-baiting right now, but who knows?

All I learned from that thread is Kan thinks I'm garbage.

I doubt we're gonna see a giant rules clean up anytime soon. my over all gut feeling is GW's shifting more to a "keep the core the same, and expand via supplement" appruch to rules etc.
and honestly... this isn't that odd, plenty of games have done such. it useally lends some stability. as you have a ton of options, instead of a "new edition new codex rinse wash repeat" feel to things

 jreilly89 wrote:

That was already covered. Death from the Skies was most likely already in development when change in command happened. That being said, it's got some cool rules, but its definitely more a campaign book than for general use.

I think you've got that wrong: DftS replaces the existing flyer rules in the BRB. It's part of the core rules. If you choose to ignore it, then it's no different than you choosing to run house rules. So, it's a very up-to-date indication of their game design philosophy.

And again, Rountree's the CEO and has been for almost 18 months. When can we start attributing bad decisions to him? I'm genuinely curious.

 the_Armyman wrote:

And again, Rountree's the CEO and has been for almost 18 months. When can we start attributing bad decisions to him? I'm genuinely curious.

As soon as he's replaced by another new CEO who inmediately throws the playerbase another cookie.

I mean, two years ago the narrative from the "positive" GW customers was everything is fine, nothing is broken and anyone who complained was a whiner and a doomsayer.

Now it seems Kirby was the source of all evil in the world. But wasn't everything fine?

 Korinov wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

And again, Rountree's the CEO and has been for almost 18 months. When can we start attributing bad decisions to him? I'm genuinely curious.

As soon as he's replaced by another new CEO who inmediately throws the playerbase another cookie.

I mean, two years ago the narrative from the "positive" GW customers was everything is fine, nothing is broken and anyone who complained was a whiner and a doomsayer.

Now it seems Kirby was the source of all evil in the world. But wasn't everything fine?

It's a fair point. The answer is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder: to someone who has enjoyed GW's focus in the last half-decade, things have been fine, or even great -- though in fairness, I never called anyone a whiner or complainer -- I pretty much always acknowledge there are other points of view.

GW has spent quite a lot of years focusing on more models, bigger models, models with a better process, and more complex models; lots of books that that are great to read and for the shelf; and a lot of pulpish fiction. Essentially, people like me have been happy because GW could pretty much put out any set of rules, without really upsetting me, since I just want something that gives me an excuse to model armies and parade them onto battlefields that are visual spectacles. I can find my own fun with my friends from there. For GW to upset me, they would have had to stop improving the their models (from my perspective of what makes a model good), and stop coming up with new stuff that I like (again, from the perspective of what I like).

On the other hand, I've always maintained that I didn't think it would take a lot to make a segment of the gaming population more happy, or at least less unhappy, and I chime in with others in thinking that things like the recent FAQ are a net positive.

So TLDR - everything was fine for some people, but not others; and it's good that things are at least a little better for some of those other people. At least, they didn't really make anyone who was happy before, mad now

Two years ago I wouldn't touch GW models. Under Rountree, I've bough 6 copies of "Get Started", Renegade, pre-ordered Silver Tower, and have started playing WH40k. Oh yeah...and a further $700 worth of Daemons and $300 worth of WoC.

People should not expect to see wholesome changes in a whim, just because the CEO was changed. They did it with AoS and the backlash was enormous. They'll do it slowly with 40k, and I'm in agreement with them.

Continuing discussion from N&R, I feel that GW should go back to the 3rd edition style of slim, softcover books that had the rules at a relatively cheap price (IIRC it was like $20-25 for the codex, and the supplements were even slimmer and I think were maybe $10-15 at most). This had the effect of having a lower barrier to entry, but GW could also put out the hardback, glossy pages, special trim etc. books for collectors who want a nicely bound book on the shelf.

In fact they could go one step further: The rule books are slim and don't have much fluff beyond enough to give a feel for the army. Marines for example, would have a few paragraphs about the chapters, a page or two about general history (e.g. Crusade, Heresy), and then a couple pages of models. That's it. They then also put out a book that has the rich history, all the timelines, detailed paragraphs, special page borders, artwork, etc. but doesn't have the rules - it's strictly a lorebook. Someone very interested gets both, a collector who doesn't really play but want the history gets the big lore book, the gamer gets the small codex.

If they went the AOS route and had datasheets provided with models and available for free, this is win-win.

They could also go the similar route of Bolt Action. Bolt Action has softcover books that also have glossy pages and high-quality paper. They run about $25USD, or half the price of a GW codex, for the same/similar quality.