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tneva82 wrote:

Which will then result in bazillion slightly different rules from what could easily have been simply same rule. And updating them is major pain. Say hello to smoke launchers that work differently based on what army you happen to use..

 kodos wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
TGW have been repeatedly doing stuff differently for some time now, and are showing real signs of reengagement and actually listening?

Yeah, they listen now and yes they make things different regarding how to treat their customers.
But I have not seen any change how they care about their rules or that the quality of writing improved.

I really hope that I am wrong, but I just don't see any sign that the next edition will not change its design style every 6th month.

So the first FAQ in years, based on soliciting questions that are actually frequently asked by the community, publicly sharing the first draft and inviting feedback before locking it in isn't some sort of indication that their attitude towards the rules may be changing?

Come on...

 Azreal13 wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
TGW have been repeatedly doing stuff differently for some time now, and are showing real signs of reengagement and actually listening?

Yeah, they listen now and yes they make things different regarding how to treat their customers.
But I have not seen any change how they care about their rules or that the quality of writing improved.

I really hope that I am wrong, but I just don't see any sign that the next edition will not change its design style every 6th month.

So the first FAQ in years, based on soliciting questions that are actually frequently asked by the community, publicly sharing the first draft and inviting feedback before locking it in isn't some sort of indication that their attitude towards the rules may be changing?

Come on...

GW has no redeeming factors. None. Absolutely zero and acknowledging anything to the contrary means you're just a gakking shill.

Requizen wrote:

GW has no redeeming factors. None. Absolutely zero and acknowledging anything to the contrary means you're just a gakking shill.

Hard to argue with a level-headed statement like that .

I thought he was being sarcastic.

Of course he was. Sadly people often check their sense of humour before entering Dakka.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Of course he was. Sadly people often check their sense of humour before entering Dakka.

Tell me about it. You know the phrase check your privilege? Dakka's is check your humor.

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
There is some good info about the Warzone Fenris developments from the author of the 2nd novel/ebook series in this ~1 1/2 h podcast. I'm halfway through his part and it gets surprisingly interesting. Good stuff to listen to during a paint session - although the sound quality could be better (it is an voip interview).


Robbie MacNiven - Combat Phase podcast (spoiler warning)

The WZF part starts at ~32:35 min.

http://faeit212communitynews.blogspot.de/2016/06/ep-151-combat-phase-legacy-of-russ.html

Can you give tl;dr version?

* Mild spoiler warning *


- His ebooks will be released as a novel later, they were written with that in mind and are set at the middle of the WZF story
- He is not allowed to say exactly what but there is more than just stories released by BL coming
- Midgardia, which - as we have known since the artist of that artwork pointed it out - is getting bombarded by the Dark Angels not Fenris and burned to the ground. It is not blown apart though.
- The Changeling is so excellent at hiding, only Tzeentch knows his real form and has much respect for that ability. The Changeling had sneaked into a SW fortress earlier. The Inquisition is investigating. Maybe I missed it but he hasnt been detected in part 1-5 afaik
- Known Characters will die (not the big ones)
- He was able to write about a lot of Space Wolves characters, both recently introduced and those well known
- Epic scale story, taking place on several planets, moons and space ports - More than 14 main characters, at least 12 SM chapters involved

This is what Robbie MacNiven knows and/or allowed to say and/or his impressions regarding the game itself - do not quote him on that:
- The storyline/conflict of the Daemonic Incursion is going to expand to other areas and is not limited to the Fenris system
- My interpretation: Sounds like more Warzone campaigns for 40k in other areas
- No AoS-ification
- No Destruction of the 40k universe to start anew

Story development:
- The characters (like Azrael, Stern etc) have individual reactions to and opinions of the Wulfen. Pretty interesting stuff actually
- SW and DA arent driven by hatred for each other
- The Daemon incursions are so severe that bombing a planet was one of the last measures available
- There are different kinds of Wulfen characters, some are feral, some more human than animal
- In Part 8 everything escalates (not his words)

He is also writing a Charadon's novel and two top secret projects including a short story.

A Stormtrooper/Militarum Tempestus and more Imperial Guard stories is something he would like to work on next as they havent gotten much for a while and he also collects and plays IG. He played a lot of WFB and there will be an AoS book by him some time in the future.

The Warzone Fenris ebook series is going to end sometime in August, he doesnt know 100%, but earlier than fall 2016. There are two ebooks left.

There was a lot more talk, especially about the SW characters involved.

The first part of the WZF ebook series is available for free by the way.

 Azreal13 wrote:
isn't some sort of indication that their attitude towards the rules may be changing?

Come on...

Jup, it is not.
I see things different, and while most people come up with the hype "GW is changing because we get a real FAQ", I also look at the AoS FAQ and read the answers we get.
The actual answers to real questions (not that stuff that can be answered with reading the rules and the codex) indicate that nothing changed at all.

Just look at the recent BA FAQ.
It shows 2 problems of the rule design process that should have been solves long time ago.

First, they cannot decide what they want and change their mind with every codex.
The Errata for BA Scouts is nice, but now be are back in time were the only difference between a Space Marine trainee and a veteran is the armour he wears. In between they thought that there should be a difference in the profile value between trainees and veterans. But this idea was thrown away before all SM Codex books get the change.

The other thing is that in the same FAQ, they made clear that if a rule for similar units with the same same has a different wording, this is indented and not a mistake.
So no change to the "we never make mistakes while writing our rules" which is a huge problem since 3rd edition.
And the FAQ is full of such examples

What I see is that their attitude toward their customers have changed. They realized that communication with players is important and they need to give them the feeling that they take care.

But their attitude towards the rules is absolutely the same and did not change at all.
Look at AoS, the new Handbook is not even out yet and the new FAQ give tipps how to abuse it.

None of this seems to be showing there hasn't been a change in attitude?

It just seems to be a list of areas where they've made a mistake or you disagree with the decision.

That has no bearing on the attitude, which has demonstrably changed, and is more about their aptitude, which will take much longer to develop.

I really would like some streamlined rules, personally. I think they have realized that the rules are really the biggest barrier to entry, more so than even the price. I used to play 40K, up until 6th edition. I don't anymore. I've had some opportunities to play games since then, but the amount of effort that would be required to get caught up with the rules just wouldn't be worth it. I can't imagine it's very easy to show a prospective player the game and get them interested in it, when you're flipping through piles of books and formations to find the rules you need.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Daemon Primarchs aren't returning alone? So, with Angron, Perturabo, Magnus, and the rest I don't really care about, we are going to see...

Guilliman getting off the toilet? Lion is getting a kiss from Prince Charming? The Khan remembers he's a primarch and punches his way out of prison? Vulkan stops being a dick and comes back?

I kind of want to see Guilliman/Fulgrim round two, now that Fulgrim has had ten thousand years to rot his brain with Slaanesh...

Don't forget Ferrus growing his head back!

 Azreal13 wrote:
None of this seems to be showing there hasn't been a change in attitude?

So because the answers FAQ's the same way, or put out the same quality of rules like 8 years ago, is an indication for a change?
And no, saying that GW now wants to write good rules but is not able to do so is not an indication for a change (if it take them 10 years to realise that their rules are not good, how long it would take to learn how to write good ones)

Warhams-77 wrote:

Liberal_Perturabo wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
There is some good info about the Warzone Fenris developments from the author of the 2nd novel/ebook series in this ~1 1/2 h podcast. I'm halfway through his part and it gets surprisingly interesting. Good stuff to listen to during a paint session - although the sound quality could be better (it is an voip interview).


Robbie MacNiven - Combat Phase podcast (spoiler warning)

The WZF part starts at ~32:35 min.

http://faeit212communitynews.blogspot.de/2016/06/ep-151-combat-phase-legacy-of-russ.html

Can you give tl;dr version?

* Mild spoiler warning *


- His ebooks will be released as a novel later, they were written with that in mind and are set at the middle of the WZF story
- He is not allowed to say exactly what but there is more than just stories released by BL coming
- Midgardia, which - as we have known since the artist of that artwork pointed it out - is getting bombarded by the Dark Angels not Fenris and burned to the ground. It is not blown apart though.
- The Changeling is so excellent at hiding, only Tzeentch knows his real form and has much respect for that ability. The Changeling had sneaked into a SW fortress earlier. The Inquisition is investigating. Maybe I missed it but he hasnt been detected in part 1-5 afaik
- Known Characters will die (not the big ones)
- He was able to write about a lot of Space Wolves characters, both recently introduced and those well known
- Epic scale story, taking place on several planets, moons and space ports - More than 14 main characters, at least 12 SM chapters involved

This is what Robbie MacNiven knows and/or allowed to say and/or his impressions regarding the game itself - do not quote him on that:
- The storyline/conflict of the Daemonic Incursion is going to expand to other areas and is not limited to the Fenris system
- My interpretation: Sounds like more Warzone campaigns for 40k in other areas
- No AoS-ification
- No Destruction of the 40k universe to start anew

Story development:
- The characters (like Azrael, Stern etc) have individual reactions to and opinions of the Wulfen. Pretty interesting stuff actually
- SW and DA arent driven by hatred for each other
- The Daemon incursions are so severe that bombing a planet was one of the last measures available
- There are different kinds of Wulfen characters, some are feral, some more human than animal
- In Part 8 everything escalates (not his words)

He is also writing a Charadon's novel and two top secret projects including a short story.

A Stormtrooper/Militarum Tempestus and more Imperial Guard stories is something he would like to work on next as they havent gotten much for a while and he also collects and plays IG. He played a lot of WFB and there will be an AoS book by him some time in the future.

The Warzone Fenris ebook series is going to end sometime in August, he doesnt know 100%, but earlier than fall 2016. There are two ebooks left.

There was a lot more talk, especially about the SW characters involved.

The first part of the WZF ebook series is available for free by the way.

Ok, well this is some interesting stuff.

I thought they stated no characters will die.
That he wanted to kill canis but GW and BL said no touching characters/fenris itself. but they gave him free reign to the extended fenris system

Warhams-77 wrote:
- Known Characters will die (not the big ones)

My heart wants it to be Canis Wolfborn, but my head knows it's Ahriman.

What makes you think they'll kill off Ahriman? I could see if it there was another Tzeentch CSM special character, but I doubt they'd do that.

If they're bringing Primarchs and Daemon Primarchs I could see some of the Chapter Masters and certain chaos characters being seen as narratively redundant.

None of the characters we have models for or are of importance. He mentioned that because of the amount of SW fluff already out there we have a lot of minor characters with names (mentioned before) and he had to be cautious what he did with them. GW/BL did not allow him to kill major characters. Look at the SW painting guide, Companies of Fenris, in which basically every pack leader of several companies has a name. Now imagine writing a story in which lots of SW die, it is basically unavoidable that known characters (which doesnt mean important ones) will be amongst them.

8th ed should just be a tighter version of 7th. The big thing is that all the codexes need to come out at the same time. That way all codex developers can communicate with editors and/or project leads to coordinate similar power levels across all codexes.

Also, Odin should return to inform all the monotheists that their wrong.

*Codecies. I have been informed that my use of "codexes" is grammatically, morally, and spiritually wrong.

They will never have all the codexes come out at the same time.
That would be terrible for sales.

 adamsouza wrote:
They will never have all the codexes come out at the same time.
That would be terrible for sales.

I would prefer to have them do something like AoS, where we get the datasheets when the new edition comes out. We can then get the new codexes staggered the way they always have, with formations, new model rules, and hard copy versions of the data sheets.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
- Known Characters will die (not the big ones)

My heart wants it to be Canis Wolfborn, but my head knows it's Ahriman.

Ha Abadon will die and Ahriman will become the new leader!

What i don't understand is why can't GW just split the 8th edition in a aos version and and rule heavy version, like in old wargames where you have simple rules and advanced rules section in the rule book, keep it simple and stupid for beginners and rule and loophole heavy for the power players in the advanced section.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Daemon Primarchs aren't returning alone? So, with Angron, Perturabo, Magnus, and the rest I don't really care about, we are going to see...

Guilliman getting off the toilet? Lion is getting a kiss from Prince Charming? The Khan remembers he's a primarch and punches his way out of prison? Vulkan stops being a dick and comes back?

I kind of want to see Guilliman/Fulgrim round two, now that Fulgrim has had ten thousand years to rot his brain with Slaanesh...

Don't forget Ferrus growing his head back!

It'll be made of the same stuff his hands are. He secretly managed to find a way to keep his brain in his chest, so losing his head was only a 10,000 year inconvenience.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Daemon Primarchs aren't returning alone? So, with Angron, Perturabo, Magnus, and the rest I don't really care about, we are going to see...

Guilliman getting off the toilet? Lion is getting a kiss from Prince Charming? The Khan remembers he's a primarch and punches his way out of prison? Vulkan stops being a dick and comes back?

I kind of want to see Guilliman/Fulgrim round two, now that Fulgrim has had ten thousand years to rot his brain with Slaanesh...

Don't forget Ferrus growing his head back!

It'll be made of the same stuff his hands are. He secretly managed to find a way to keep his brain in his chest, so losing his head was only a 10,000 year inconvenience.

Whatever happened to his head in the first place? I know Fulgrim gave it to Horus, but then what happened to it? It could be that it isn't his body that grows his head back, but his head that grows his body back.

Also, it turns out that it wasn't Sanguinius that Horus killed, but the Sanguinor! And that the Sanguinor has actually been Sanguinius this entire time!

Warhams-77 wrote:
There is some good info about the Warzone Fenris developments from the author of the 2nd novel/ebook series in this ~1 1/2 h podcast. I'm halfway through his part and it gets surprisingly interesting. Good stuff to listen to during a paint session - although the sound quality could be better (it is an voip interview).


Robbie MacNiven - Combat Phase podcast (spoiler warning)

The WZF part starts at ~32:35 min.

http://faeit212communitynews.blogspot.de/2016/06/ep-151-combat-phase-legacy-of-russ.html

Yeah, his audio on Skype was a bit rough to work in. But I'm glad you got something out of it.
I think Robbie will be a rising star at BL in the years to come.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The Daemon Primarchs aren't returning alone? So, with Angron, Perturabo, Magnus, and the rest I don't really care about, we are going to see...

Guilliman getting off the toilet? Lion is getting a kiss from Prince Charming? The Khan remembers he's a primarch and punches his way out of prison? Vulkan stops being a dick and comes back?

I kind of want to see Guilliman/Fulgrim round two, now that Fulgrim has had ten thousand years to rot his brain with Slaanesh...

Don't forget Ferrus growing his head back!

It'll be made of the same stuff his hands are. He secretly managed to find a way to keep his brain in his chest, so losing his head was only a 10,000 year inconvenience.

Perhaps the head returns with a giant robo body.
And as for Sanguinus, they suppsosedly has some of his blood in Corbulos red grail, so how hard could it be to clone him, or even let the blood be part of some Sanguinus Avatar summoning ritual. BA got some weird mojo going.

The smartest thing would perhaps be to bring back one primarch and have him reopen the emperors secret lab and reboot the primarch project on the main cogitator.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Which will then result in bazillion slightly different rules from what could easily have been simply same rule. And updating them is major pain. Say hello to smoke launchers that work differently based on what army you happen to use..

As opposed to smoke launchers which might work differently depending on which formation of the same units you happen to have taken?

Its a mystery to me whenever I see anyone defend 40k's rules. We all, or many many of us, love the game to various degrees, or else we wouldn't be in this thread, but to say it has good rules is mad. Its unquestionably bloated, often unclear, and its rules are spread across far too many possible sources.

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure the current (or 6th edition) Dark Angels didn't have smoke launchers that reduced pens to glances.