Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

It would be funny if they weren't in power. Many of the alt right bang on about the right to offend, and how "progressives" are trying to stifle free speech by criticising offensive, divisive, bigoted attacks on people, yet Trump is so thin skinned. It's classic bullying tactics.

its not just the alt right, and progressives are attacking everything that is not in lock step with their ideology. As I have said before, it was not trumps people attacking us Libertarians here, it was all hillary's people.

You must have missed all the super-classy 'cuckold' stuff.

I don't recall much in the way of 'if you vote for Johnson you're a bigot', apart from the few people going 'anyone who doesn't support the only person who actually has a shot against Trump is a bigot', which is...a bit of a stretch, to say the least. As I recall - and it's been a month or two, so who knows if it'll be accurate, really gotta stretch my memory here - most of the criticism of Johnson revolved around his lack of knowledge of world affairs and belief that the free market will solve literally everything. Reading his answers to the Scientific American questionnaire was...interesting, although to be fair, he scored thirty-odd points higher than Trump and about the same as Stein.

As a Libertarian I am much less concerned with the obviuos buffoonery of trump than I am the insidiuos evil of the left.

Oh, come on now.

A libertarian who isn't concerned about government created registries based on religion, massive uptake in immigration enforcement, and giant proposed government infrastructure projects should probably reconsider their political ideology.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I'm sure Lincoln would agree with Trump's statement.
On a more serious note, I didn't see anything particularly harmful in their speech. I certainly wouldn't want to be harangued at a theater, but here it appears to be quite reasonable.
Unless the video is missing something.

The Economist was worried that Trump wouldn't be able to hold it together in the face of criticism. So far they have been proved right.

Trump's going to have to grow a much thicker skin very quickly. He is a widely despised president elect and he's going to take this kind of flak continuously for the next two months and four years.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

It would be funny if they weren't in power. Many of the alt right bang on about the right to offend, and how "progressives" are trying to stifle free speech by criticising offensive, divisive, bigoted attacks on people, yet Trump is so thin skinned. It's classic bullying tactics.

its not just the alt right, and progressives are attacking everything that is not in lock step with their ideology. As I have said before, it was not trumps people attacking us Libertarians here, it was all hillary's people. We are considered racist bigots for supporting Gary Johnson...

Who is Gary Johnson?

 d-usa wrote:
A libertarian who isn't concerned about government created registries based on religion, massive uptake in immigration enforcement, and giant proposed government infrastructure projects should probably reconsider their political ideology.

Libertarian isn't a very specific political ideology more like Republican spelled funny because of the pot smoking.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
A libertarian who isn't concerned about government created registries based on religion, massive uptake in immigration enforcement, and giant proposed government infrastructure projects should probably reconsider their political ideology.

Libertarian isn't a very specific political ideology more like Republican spelled funny because of the pot smoking.

While there has been an uptick of people who call themselves libertarian because they somehow don't like calling themselves Republicans anymore, those three things are a pretty easy test to filter out people who actually consider themselves libertarian.

 Spinner wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

It would be funny if they weren't in power. Many of the alt right bang on about the right to offend, and how "progressives" are trying to stifle free speech by criticising offensive, divisive, bigoted attacks on people, yet Trump is so thin skinned. It's classic bullying tactics.

its not just the alt right, and progressives are attacking everything that is not in lock step with their ideology. As I have said before, it was not trumps people attacking us Libertarians here, it was all hillary's people.

You must have missed all the super-classy 'cuckold' stuff.

I don't recall much in the way of 'if you vote for Johnson you're a bigot', apart from the few people going 'anyone who doesn't support the only person who actually has a shot against Trump is a bigot', which is...a bit of a stretch, to say the least. As I recall - and it's been a month or two, so who knows if it'll be accurate, really gotta stretch my memory here - most of the criticism of Johnson revolved around his lack of knowledge of world affairs and belief that the free market will solve literally everything. Reading his answers to the Scientific American questionnaire was...interesting, although to be fair, he scored thirty-odd points higher than Trump and about the same as Stein.

As a Libertarian I am much less concerned with the obviuos buffoonery of trump than I am the insidiuos evil of the left.

Oh, come on now.

this wasnt news, it was personal experience here working for the Johnson campaign.

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

Yes, yes we are and the irony is oh so sweet. Of course he decided to tweet that at about the same time the news broke that he settled for $25 million in the Trump University lawsuit, even though he's on record saying he "never settles."

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
On a more serious note, I didn't see anything particularly harmful in their speech. I certainly wouldn't want to be harangued at a theater, but here it appears to be quite reasonable.
Unless the video is missing something.

No, you aren't missing something. That's how Trump operates when criticized; instead of addressing the criticism, he attempts to silence the critic with bullying (like claiming Pence was "harassed" by someone politely addressing him).

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Who is Gary Johnson?

 d-usa wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
A libertarian who isn't concerned about government created registries based on religion, massive uptake in immigration enforcement, and giant proposed government infrastructure projects should probably reconsider their political ideology.

Libertarian isn't a very specific political ideology more like Republican spelled funny because of the pot smoking.

While there has been an uptick of people who call themselves libertarian because they somehow don't like calling themselves Republicans anymore, those three things are a pretty easy test to filter out people who actually consider themselves libertarian.

We have a very broad base of people, so no there really isnt a "test". Trump is higly unlikely to actually do anything at all, except make himself richer, but he is obviously a clown and should soon find out that as president he cant do most of what he wants. Its not a matter of "unconcerned" its more "its not going to happen" so getting upset about it is about as useful as preparing for martians invading.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

It would be funny if they weren't in power. Many of the alt right bang on about the right to offend, and how "progressives" are trying to stifle free speech by criticising offensive, divisive, bigoted attacks on people, yet Trump is so thin skinned. It's classic bullying tactics.

its not just the alt right, and progressives are attacking everything that is not in lock step with their ideology. As I have said before, it was not trumps people attacking us Libertarians here, it was all hillary's people.

You must have missed all the super-classy 'cuckold' stuff.

I don't recall much in the way of 'if you vote for Johnson you're a bigot', apart from the few people going 'anyone who doesn't support the only person who actually has a shot against Trump is a bigot', which is...a bit of a stretch, to say the least. As I recall - and it's been a month or two, so who knows if it'll be accurate, really gotta stretch my memory here - most of the criticism of Johnson revolved around his lack of knowledge of world affairs and belief that the free market will solve literally everything. Reading his answers to the Scientific American questionnaire was...interesting, although to be fair, he scored thirty-odd points higher than Trump and about the same as Stein.

As a Libertarian I am much less concerned with the obviuos buffoonery of trump than I am the insidiuos evil of the left.

Oh, come on now.

this wasnt news, it was personal experience here working for the Johnson campaign.

And in that time, you never heard or saw a single Trump supporter say anything nasty about Gary Johnson, his supporters, or right-wing people that didn't support Trump?

We have a very broad base of people, so no there really isnt a "test". Trump is higly unlikely to actually do anything at all, except make himself richer, but he is obviously a clown and should soon find out that as president he cant do most of what he wants. Its not a matter of "unconcerned" its more "its not going to happen" so getting upset about it is about as useful as preparing for martians invading.

We just had a guy come on the news in support of a Muslim registry because we rounded up a bunch of people with Japanese ancestry and put them in camps during WWII.

Just because something is awful doesn't mean that this country will not do it, especially when we're afraid. I love the US, but we need to understand that we are not immune to doing bad things. If we feel threatened, there's people in power who start tossing principles and ideals out the window, and people that will support them.

 thekingofkings wrote:
We have a very broad base of people, so no there really isnt a "test". Trump is higly unlikely to actually do anything at all, except make himself richer, but he is obviously a clown and should soon find out that as president he cant do most of what he wants. Its not a matter of "unconcerned" its more "its not going to happen" so getting upset about it is about as useful as preparing for martians invading.

I wouldn't be too sure about what Trump can and can't do.

I don't think the people that were going to Hamilton are the types to get pissed about what happened. It's not like Hamilton will lose their Mcdonalds sponsorship or the redneck demographic.

Libertarianism is a joke. It's an ethos that basically exists to only enforce the status quo and keep minority (not racial minorities mind you but it can inlcude them) groups out of power.

It ignores things which are wrong and says "well, what can ya do?" and goes along its' merry way. Libertarianism is basically the non-racist way of saying that rich, white men ought to run everything because they have all the money and everyone else should just shut up.

ender502

 thekingofkings wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
A libertarian who isn't concerned about government created registries based on religion, massive uptake in immigration enforcement, and giant proposed government infrastructure projects should probably reconsider their political ideology.

Libertarian isn't a very specific political ideology more like Republican spelled funny because of the pot smoking.

While there has been an uptick of people who call themselves libertarian because they somehow don't like calling themselves Republicans anymore, those three things are a pretty easy test to filter out people who actually consider themselves libertarian.

We have a very broad base of people, so no there really isnt a "test". Trump is higly unlikely to actually do anything at all, except make himself richer, but he is obviously a clown and should soon find out that as president he cant do most of what he wants. Its not a matter of "unconcerned" its more "its not going to happen" so getting upset about it is about as useful as preparing for martians invading.

If the Libertarian Party doesn't have a position on the government creating a database of members of a certain religion, immigration, and government infrastructure projects, then they deserve to be the joke of the US political arena.

I say that as someone who voted for Gary Johnson, and as someone who knows a lot of libertarians in my state who have a very defined position on each of those issues.

But maybe the Libertarian Party really doesn't stand for anything except "I don't like the Republicans and Democrats", so who really knows.

 ender502 wrote:
Libertarianism is basically the non-racist way of saying that rich, white men ought to run everything because they have all the money and everyone else should just shut up.

Don't forget smoking pot. 95% of libertarians are single-issue voters who will support whichever party offers them the most legal drugs.

(Yes, this is a humorous exaggeration.)

If Mike Pence is "feeling harassed" by criticism from members of the musical light theatre he very badly indeed needs one of his advisors to tell him to send out to Macy's for some big boy panties.

Fortunately Mike Pence's Big Daddy Trump is on hand to Tweet an admonition to those nasty musical light theatre bullies.

So all is good!

Knowing how uphill it is in this nation for 3rd parties, we don't get angry for our choice not becoming President, we just are chipping away at the monolith of the "2-party-system-metod" which is too easy to corrupt by the Plutacrhs and corporate types.

My State was never gonna vote for Hillary as it went overwhelming Trump, she angered the coal folks here, and they got the poor stiffs who go dig the mines and then get laid off 3-months later to support that by going strongly Trump.

Mountain Party(Greens) got 5.9% for the Governor seat, so more local % that national for Dr. Stein. But down ballot items did progress so some silver lining in that cloud!

I find it a shame that folks are voted for based not on where they stand on issues, but how they look in front of a camera and how well worded and loud their speeches are despite most of the speeches are nothing but vapor.

Just checking in as well making sure all are ok and no one ate each other.

Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

I thought he was trolling everyone .

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

 whembly wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

I thought he was trolling everyone .

That implies a certain degree of self-awareness.

This is not a self-aware man.

Relapse wrote:

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

I do seem to recall stating, the morning after the election, that we all lost that night.

Mattis leading candidate for defense secretary, source says

Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....
Oh please be true....

Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....Oh please be true....

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

I do seem to recall stating, the morning after the election, that we all lost that night.

There was a multitude during the election stating the same thing, with the extremists on each side acting butt hurt about the other, acting stupidly, and saying stupid things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If Mike Pence is "feeling harassed" by criticism from members of the musical light theatre he very badly indeed needs one of his advisors to tell him to send out to Macy's for some big boy panties.

Fortunately Mike Pence's Big Daddy Trump is on hand to Tweet an admonition to those nasty musical light theatre bullies.

So all is good!

I am reminded of the theatre scene in, "Murder by Decree".

Looks like Romney would be a consideration for Secretary of State, certainly a better option than some of the other names floated around for that position.

 d-usa wrote:
Looks like Romney would be a consideration for Secretary of State, certainly a better option than some of the other names floated around for that position.

I... actually dig that.

 d-usa wrote:
Looks like Romney would be a consideration for Secretary of State, certainly a better option than some of the other names floated around for that position.

I wonder if he'll ever run for president again.

I would have liked to see Governor Romney run for president. Presidential Candidate Romney was about as inspiring as a wet blanket.

But if he gets SoS, at least it won't go to a lunatic, and can actually be managed by someone on the sane side of things (which is really saying something at this point).

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

So, when he invades Canada, it really will be for 'living room'???

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

It would be funny if they weren't in power. Many of the alt right bang on about the right to offend, and how "progressives" are trying to stifle free speech by criticising offensive, divisive, bigoted attacks on people, yet Trump is so thin skinned. It's classic bullying tactics.

...The progressives are displaying massive hypocrisy here and they continue to try to redefine bigotry as anything they dont agree with. As a Libertarian I am much less concerned with the obviuos buffoonery of trump than I am the insidiuos evil of the left.

This.... 100 times this...

We are in Orwellian territory now. The word bigot has been cheapened, and means almost nothing anymore.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

 SnakePlissken wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
So...we're on the record with Donald Trump asking for a safe space, right?

It would be funny if they weren't in power. Many of the alt right bang on about the right to offend, and how "progressives" are trying to stifle free speech by criticising offensive, divisive, bigoted attacks on people, yet Trump is so thin skinned. It's classic bullying tactics.

...The progressives are displaying massive hypocrisy here and they continue to try to redefine bigotry as anything they dont agree with. As a Libertarian I am much less concerned with the obviuos buffoonery of trump than I am the insidiuos evil of the left.

This.... 100 times this...

We are in Orwellian territory now. The word bigot has been cheapened, and means almost nothing anymore.

The conservatives are displaying massive hypocrisy here, and they continue to try to redefine bigotry as excluding anything they agree with. As a progressive I am much less concern with the obvious buffoonery of Trump than I am with the insidious hate hiding withing the ranks of right, and especially the willingness the rest of the right continually shows to ignore it to bemoan their 'evil' opponents.

So yeah. let's talk about what's really Orwellian here.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.

The last one, and his entire spiel against tyranny for that matter, is actually quite hilarious as Orwell himself dedicated years of his life to building blacklists, advocating the suppression of politics he didn't like to the British government, and being completely unable to discern in his later years that he'd become everything his early work proclaimed to despise.