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 SnakePlissken wrote:

We are in Orwellian territory now. The word bigot has been cheapened, and means almost nothing anymore.

Sadly.... I don't see it that way. I have, however, been seeing bigots and bigotry crawling out of the walls lately, and not just on the news, and they have been very much emboldened by Trump's rhetoric.

Stockholm is still reeling from the massive and occasionally violent mass of people screaming their allegiance to both Donald Trump *and* Adolf Hitler. I don't think we can say 'it's just the media' at this point.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

 SnakePlissken wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

All I'm hearing is 'I don't like the ugly side of the new President-Elect and his supporters, so I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist.'

 Spinner wrote:

 SnakePlissken wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

All I'm hearing is 'I don't like the ugly side of the new President-Elect and his supporters, so I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist.'

I don't know. Surely there's some other way to interpret burning down a black church and spray painting "Make America Great Again" on the side. Surely


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also just found what must easily be the greatest of the Biden Meme's;



It's finally happened. Slash fics are mainstream XD

 LordofHats wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

 SnakePlissken wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

All I'm hearing is 'I don't like the ugly side of the new President-Elect and his supporters, so I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist.'

I don't know. Surely there's some other way to interpret burning down a black church and spray painting "Make America Great Again" on the side. Surely

I call false flag operation! Is it going to be false flag operation?

That's a pretty good Biden...I still like the one where he's refusing to leave Trump any ice cream.

 SnakePlissken wrote:

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

Narratives do not get in fights with police. Narratives do not announce their intent to hold large scale marches celebrating Trumps victory. Nor do narratives boast about how they suppressed the black population (though in less pleasant terms) from voting for Clinton on the South.

I'll tell you something else that Narratives do not do. They don't wear swastikas, and get up in front of a crowd and declare that Trumps election is the 'start of the world revolution'. That happened this week.

And if you don't care to hear from the media that he's into Hitler, ask his family. His ex wife gave a very interesting interview with Vanity Fair. Are you aware that he supposedly keeps a copy of Hitler's My New Order on his bedside table? Something he's admitted in interviews?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 SnakePlissken wrote:

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

Narratives do not get in fights with police. Narratives do not announce their intent to hold large scale marches celebrating Trumps victory. Nor do narratives boast about how they suppressed the black population (though in less pleasant terms) from voting for Clinton on the South.

I'll tell you something else that Narratives do not do. They don't wear swastikas, and get up in front of a crowd and declare that Trumps election is the 'start of the world revolution'. That happened this week.

And if you don't care to hear he's into Hitler, ask his family. His ex wife gave a very interesting interview with Vanity Fair. Are you aware that he supposedly keeps a copy of Hitler's My New Order on his bedside table? Something he's admitted in interviews?

So you're saying all I have to do is teach a book to hate, and I win?



Challenge accepted. *reaches for nearest copy of Star Wars: Sacrifice*

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 SnakePlissken wrote:

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

Narratives do not get in fights with police. Narratives do not announce their intent to hold large scale marches celebrating Trumps victory. Nor do narratives boast about how they suppressed the black population (though in less pleasant terms) from voting for Clinton on the South.

I'll tell you something else that Narratives do not do. They don't wear swastikas, and get up in front of a crowd and declare that Trumps election is the 'start of the world revolution'. That happened this week.

And if you don't care to hear from the media that he's into Hitler, ask his family. His ex wife gave a very interesting interview with Vanity Fair. Are you aware that he supposedly keeps a copy of Hitler's My New Order on his bedside table? Something he's admitted in interviews?

I've been seeing rioting and protests from the non Trump supporters as well as threats that white people are going to be killed. The extremes on both sides are ridiculous.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

It's not ok to commit violent crimes like assault and battery just because some people are going to espouse ideas you don't like in a media interview, you're victim blaming.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

It's not ok to commit violent crimes like assault and battery just because some people are going to espouse ideas you don't like in a media interview, you're victim blaming.

He didn't say they brought it on themselves.

Like many, he's waiting for people to stop pretending that the fear of racism and discrimination in Trump's wake is just people overreacting. It's real, and it be nice for people to stop pretending it isn't. But of course, that would mean admitting that all the people protesting, and even rioting, kind of have a point and aren't just raving lunatics.

Relapse wrote:

I've been seeing rioting and protests from the non Trump supporters as well as threats that white people are going to be killed. The extremes on both sides are ridiculous.

No arguments there, but I look at it this way:

Of the people I see taking actual action:

Most of the Anti-Trump groups are new and disorganized and will likely go away fairly soon, though we may see more flare ups. (bar some real stupidity) They do have a lot of popular support in urban areas.

Most of the Pro-Trump groups are old, have been in the game a long time, and are borderline domestic terrorists who think that a Trump administration is going to look the other way while they enact God knows what.

Which one should I be more worried about?

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

 ender502 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

Please put down that wide brush... m'kay?

 SnakePlissken wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/us/post-election-hate-crimes-and-fears-trnd/index.html
Numbers are in, hate Crime up 67%. So far.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/19/politics/donald-trump-protest/index.html

White supremacists beaten by angry mob after they provoked it by walking up to do interviews about why the white people protesting fascism and Trump had so much 'self hate'.

This is all part of the narrative. It's a non story, drummed into a story by the liberal media to scare people.

The narrative is that they want people to be afraid of Trump, so they find some nazi graffiti and pretend that its because of Trump that this is happening, and they want people to be afraid, and think that this is going to be like 1920's Germany. It's propaganda.

Yep. Fox and the right have been saying for over a decade not to trust any other media source but them. That any story you don't want to hear is just "the liberal media" and is evidence of why you shouldn't trust them.

Considering many of Trump's supporters are pushing for a 1902's style Germany....Well. Maybe it i sa story.

ender502

 whembly wrote:
Please put down that wide brush... m'kay?

Seconded. The right-wing is not monolithic. There is a wide variety of views with both right and left leaning people.

 whembly wrote:

 ender502 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

Please put down that wide brush... m'kay?

No. If the brush fits.... This view of the world is why the right so vehemenently opposes anything that reeks of "equality" or "political action by outside groups." Why else have they (since right after LBJ) opposed voting rights? Or pay equality? Or protection of rights for gay people?

It's not my broad brush. It's theirs. If you don't want reminded of it then stop using it. Or, if you wanna really shock some people try helping to realize the american dream rather than saying it should only belong to a few.

ender502

 ender502 wrote:
And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

Ok, which of these is a Confederate flag?

 ender502 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ender502 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

Please put down that wide brush... m'kay?

No. If the brush fits.... This view of the world is why the right so vehemenently opposes anything that reeks of "equality" or "political action by outside groups." Why else have they (since right after LBJ) opposed voting rights? Or pay equality? Or protection of rights for gay people?

It's not my broad brush. It's theirs. If you don't want reminded of it then stop using it. Or, if you wanna really shock some people try helping to realize the american dream rather than saying it should only belong to a few.

ender502

...

Then you are sorely misinformed.

@Thread: This is an interesting article:
YOU ARE STILL CRYING WOLF
Post waaaaaaaaay too long to post...

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Relapse wrote:

I've been seeing rioting and protests from the non Trump supporters as well as threats that white people are going to be killed. The extremes on both sides are ridiculous.

No arguments there, but I look at it this way:

Of the people I see taking actual action:

Most of the Anti-Trump groups are new and disorganized and will likely go away fairly soon, though we may see more flare ups. (bar some real stupidity) They do have a lot of popular support in urban areas.

Most of the Pro-Trump groups are old, have been in the game a long time, and are borderline domestic terrorists who think that a Trump administration is going to look the other way while they enact God knows what.

Which one should I be more worried about?

Most of the anti Trump rioters have been with us for years and have just used him as their most recent excuse to do the things they do. Their brown shirts style attempts to disrupt Trump rallies fell short in the election,so now they are trying to be as disruptive and divisive as possible post election. I don't expect to see them go away soon, since they are useful idiots.

 whembly wrote:
@Thread: This is an interesting article:
YOU ARE STILL CRYING WOLF
Post waaaaaaaaay too long to post...

It has some points, but also some rather significant flaws. And a good part of it comes from the Less Wrong crowd's "AI IS OUR BIGGEST THREAT NOTHING ELSE MATTERS" tinfoil hattery, where the author's stated political goal is centrism for the sake of centrism simply because anything else gets in the way of AI research.

 ender502 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

Not sure where you're drawing the Confederate flag from in my comment, and you were the one that started the talk about thin skins. I am merely pointing out that to vilify one side while ignoring the same type of offences from the other is a mistake.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

Ok, which of these is a Confederate flag?

One's the flag of the confederacy and one is a confederate battle-standard. So, both. The battle-standard, however, was brought back into use to protest desegregation. It is commonly used by neo-nazis to skirt around anti-swastika laws in Europe. It is a symbol of racial hatred. It can, of course, have other meanings, but that is the most common assumption. Some people claim it to represent "southern pride", which I think is a bit silly (there is nothing to be proud of in the confederacy, and it's not even the right flag), but whatever.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

Ok, which of these is a Confederate flag?

I am, of course, referring to the virginia battle flag. What? Was I not supposed to know what the stars and bars actually were?

Please continuing to pick aprt at the minutia as a way of ignoring and distrating from the larger reality of the right's attempt to limit america to the few rather than the many.

ender502


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

Not sure where you're drawing the Confederate flag from in my comment, and you were the one that started the talk about thin skins. I am merely pointing out that to vilify one side while ignoring the same type of offences from the other is a mistake.

I know. I went off on my own rant. But personally I hope we all have a thin skin. That we in no way can abide or accept injustice.

ender502


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 ender502 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ender502 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
Republicans, alt-right and white nationalists tend to be a thinned skin lot. They have really embraced the culture of victimhood to a crazy degree.

ender502

Clinton demonstrated the thickness of her skin as well as the type of leader she would have been when she deserted, without a word, her supporters on election night after it was clear she was going to lose. She instead, instead of appearing herself to give words of thanks, encouragement, or comfort, left it to an underling to tell them to go home.
The ensuing riots and road blocking demonstrations as well as the pre election brown shirt tactics by Clinton's supporters participating in them show how thick their skin was.

This election had the worst choice of candidates ever, bringing out the worst in both sides.

Insert appropriate snarky comment about thin skins.

The right views everything as a zero sum game. That others gain means they are losing something. Seriously, google "white genocide". Take a walk through the twisted world of white nationalist victimization. Heck, the equate taking down the confederate flag with white genocide...the death of white culture. And PLEASE don't start with the "the confederate flag wasn't about racism" nonsense. It'll be too easy to prove you wrong. And my contempt with which I do it will probably get me a warning.

ender502

Please put down that wide brush... m'kay?

No. If the brush fits.... This view of the world is why the right so vehemenently opposes anything that reeks of "equality" or "political action by outside groups." Why else have they (since right after LBJ) opposed voting rights? Or pay equality? Or protection of rights for gay people?

It's not my broad brush. It's theirs. If you don't want reminded of it then stop using it. Or, if you wanna really shock some people try helping to realize the american dream rather than saying it should only belong to a few.

ender502

...

Then you are sorely misinformed.

@Thread: This is an interesting article:
YOU ARE STILL CRYING WOLF
Post waaaaaaaaay too long to post...

Please tell me how post LBJ the right has stood up for voting rights? Or have expanded the voting franchise? Or supported pay equality for women? Or supported gay rights?

 Peregrine wrote:

 whembly wrote:
@Thread: This is an interesting article:
YOU ARE STILL CRYING WOLF
Post waaaaaaaaay too long to post...

It has some points, but also some rather significant flaws. And a good part of it comes from the Less Wrong crowd's "AI IS OUR BIGGEST THREAT NOTHING ELSE MATTERS" tinfoil hattery, where the author's stated political goal is centrism for the sake of centrism simply because anything else gets in the way of AI research.

My take away is that Trump has 99 problems... but racism/anti-gay ain't one of them.

I mean, seriously, Trump fething settled his civil lawsuit for $25 MILLION dollars!

But, no... we ain't talking about it...

We're talking how the cast of Hamilton being a meanie to VP-elect.

 whembly wrote:
My take away is that Trump has 99 problems... but racism/anti-gay ain't one of them.

And your takeaway is wrong. The author is correct in saying that the people claiming Trump is a KKK-level extremist are wrong, but his dismissal of more subtle claims of racism is just a bunch of "don't worry about it" handwaving. Whether or not Trump is personally racist he was willing to make use of racist arguments to get elected, and he keeps associating with racist people. The "a taco truck on every corner" thing came from his campaign, after all. And it's hard to be confident in Trump's position on LGBT issues when he picked a blatantly anti-gay vice president.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
I mean, seriously, Trump fething settled his civil lawsuit for $25 MILLION dollars!

But, no... we ain't talking about it..

Actually we are talking about it, the lawsuit has been mentioned in this thread already. It just isn't going to be much of a discussion if nobody steps in to defend Trump, those of us who hate him aren't going to sit around posting page after page of "yes, I too agree that Trump's lawsuit is bad" while nobody bothers to dispute it.

Co'tor Shas wrote:
One's the flag of the confederacy and one is a confederate battle-standard.

ender502 wrote:
I am, of course, referring to the virginia battle flag. What? Was I not supposed to know what the stars and bars actually were?

The picture shows the 'Stars and Bars' national flag, and the Confederate Naval Jack.

You both made a common mistake. (though Co'tor could be argued to be technically right, as the Army of Tennessee did use naval jacks as battle-flags, but this was an issue of supply rather than intent). The battle-flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is square, not rectangular.



However, most people who start making statements about the meaning of a symbol (particularly flags and other national symbols) forget that it means different things to different people. So, yes, it very well can mean southern pride, etc. I have to remind myself every day that how I see things is not always how others see things. You should take that thought to heart yourselves.

And, as far as the confederate flag goes, about 75% of ones that I've spoken to really can't identify anything but the jack as a confederate flag. If that. More than one thought that the Gadsden flag was confederate.

Remember, where I live, it's the United States flag that's seen as a symbol of violent racism, oppression, and tyranny.

 Peregrine wrote:

 whembly wrote:
My take away is that Trump has 99 problems... but racism/anti-gay ain't one of them.

And your takeaway is wrong. The author is correct in saying that the people claiming Trump is a KKK-level extremist are wrong, but his dismissal of more subtle claims of racism is just a bunch of "don't worry about it" handwaving. Whether or not Trump is personally racist he was willing to make use of racist arguments to get elected, and he keeps associating with racist people. The "a taco truck on every corner" thing came from his campaign, after all. And it's hard to be confident in Trump's position on LGBT issues when he picked a blatantly anti-gay vice president.

Yeah... that's a good point man.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
I mean, seriously, Trump fething settled his civil lawsuit for $25 MILLION dollars!

But, no... we ain't talking about it..

Actually we are talking about it, the lawsuit has been mentioned in this thread already. It just isn't going to be much of a discussion if nobody steps in to defend Trump, those of us who hate him aren't going to sit around posting page after page of "yes, I too agree that Trump's lawsuit is bad" while nobody bothers to dispute it.

...I'll try defending him...

He just got elected and he's treating this as a nuisance lawsuit and paid it to make it go away. Or something...

...

Nah... I got nothing.

When racist idiots stop using the confederate flags as the symbol for their idiot racist behaviors, then people will probably stop associating it with idiot racists.

Of course that's after we ignore the whole history behind the confederate states to begin with. But we shouldn't let revisionist history get another thread locked.

 whembly wrote:
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My take away is that Trump has 99 problems... but racism/anti-gay ain't one of them.

You know better than that, Whembly. What was that he said about the judge in the case he just settled? Something about how he couldn't possibly give him a fair trial because of his Mexican heritage?

And then all the stuff he's said about black people?

And having a vice-president that supports gay conversion therapy?

You know all this, don't you?

Makes you wonder, though, since Trump is forking over that $25 million, is he going to accept the presidential paycheck now?