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 Insectum7 wrote:
Oooh this took a fun turn.

While it's true that men are generally stronger, it means much less when combat is based on guns rather than clubbing each other. In a world with advanced technology, I'll take intelligence, discipline and professionalism over mere physical might any day.

As for the strength factor and carry weights expected of a modern soldier, the modern kit is currently ruining legs and knees for life. That's one of the reasons why those exoskeletons are being developed. Even those tough guys are getting permanently messed up from carrying all that weight. The military would love to have a solution for having to carry around all that ****.

The IG's solution to that problem is to not have their soldiers carry around much equipment since they're probably going to die really fast once they get into a battle.

Also the IoM's main melee weapon is the chainsword, where you're not so much supposed to swing it around a lot but instead push the spinning blade against the opponent and let it cut through them.

HANZERtank wrote:Iirc correctly I heard form someone that the Emperor was originally planning on having 10 sons and 10 daughters. The idea being the daughters would keep the sons conflicting nature and aggressiveness in check with more responsibility and better judgment. However it couldn't go to plan because there was some reason as to why women couldn't accept the modification (such as chromosomes or inherent biological differences between men and women).

Where that story comes from is an incident where Malcador, half jokingly, suggested to the Emperor that half of the Primarchs should be female, supposedly to serve as a buffer against any potentially "brotherly" rivalry escalating beyond manageable levels. The Emperor was not amused, and simply replies that it wasn't possible.

Pouncey wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Nobody said they weren't allowed in combat, I was simply making a point they could be used for more than just another soldier, and should be treated as such and be removed from combat if it would benefit the human race more. So you would get more. (and even then, 2 is the average for today, in 40k it might be more because of conscription tithes or something similar.

Their numbers are fine even though they do use a lot of female troops. There are simply enough women in the IoM that it doesn't hurt the humans' numbers to so.

And since Cadians in the lore conscript both men and women equally, and are ultimately the flagship IG regiment at this point, they should be getting female conversion kits for their infantry.

Most Cadian females serve in the Cadian Interior Guard (since every Cadian is technically a military reservist, with their homeworld literally being a fortress planet). There are females in the Cadian Imperial Guard regiments, just not in the numbers you see with males. Mostly because Cadian females are expected to push out as many future recruits as possible, both to meet tithe requirements, as well as hold the Gate from the Ruinous Powers.


As for the rest, it depends on the world and it's culture. Valhalla is one world that makes heavy use of female personnel. It's just that mixed regiments are uncommon. Another is Vostroyan. If you don't have a first-born son to enter the Emperor's service, then your first-born daughter gets the spot.

I seriously doubt that the Death Korps has female personnel serving in it's regiments, considering that both Krieg women, along with "vitae womb" technology, are both connected to Krieg keeping up it supply of fanatically suicidal gas masked mooks. You probably won't find many females in the Scintillan Fusiliers either, mostly because the system of Imperial nobility has a strong patriarchal bent.

It wouldn't surprise me if Brimlock, Tallarn, and Catachan has numerous females in their ranks. Especially, the Catachan. Everybody from that world is a tough mofo.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Most Cadian females serve in the Cadian Interior Guard (since every Cadian is technically a military reservist, with their homeworld literally being a fortress planet). There are females in the Cadian Imperial Guard regiments, just not in the numbers you see with males. Mostly because Cadian females are expected to push out as many future recruits as possible, both to meet tithe requirements, as well as hold the Gate from the Ruinous Powers.


As for the rest, it depends on the world and it's culture. Valhalla is one world that makes heavy use of female personnel. It's just that mixed regiments are uncommon. Another is Vostroyan. If you don't have a first-born son to enter the Emperor's service, then your first-born daughter gets the spot.

I seriously doubt that the Death Korps has female personnel serving in it's regiments, considering that both Krieg women, along with "vitae womb" technology, are both connected to Krieg keeping up it supply of fanatically suicidal gas masked mooks. You probably won't find many females in the Scintillan Fusiliers either, mostly because the system of Imperial nobility has a strong patriarchal bent.

It wouldn't surprise me if Brimlock, Tallarn, and Catachan has numerous females in their ranks. Especially, the Catachan. Everybody from that world is a tough mofo.

So maybe not half then.

How about enough to make a playable army with a decent mix of male/female IG models if you so choose? If you did it with conversion kits (or a separate kit if you go with the female models having different bodies too) you could even let the player decide how many of their IG are female.

Because right now our options for female IG are limited to, what, 3 models? One's a Last Chancer, one's a Commissar in a style that should never have existed outside of adult fan art to begin with, and the third's an OOP Catachan with a grenade launcher.

And yes, of course, if an IG regiment has lore that means there aren't going to be women in their ranks on the battlefield, then you don't have to create a female variant for them. The lore's the entire reason that there aren't female Space Marines or male Sisters of Battle, and few people are pushing for the former and literally no one for the latter.

I think 40k is incredibly diverse. We have humans, superhumans, demons, elves, evil elves, orks, bugs, fish people, female nun warriors, etc. Anyone can paint there army in any scheme and come up with whatever back story they want.

There, question answered. If anyone complains there isn't enough of whatever in official cannon, they need to get over it. This is toy soldiers that were left for folks to use their imagination and creativity with.

 455_PWR wrote:
I think 40k is incredibly diverse. We have humans, superhumans, demons, elves, evil elves, orks, bugs, fish people, female nun warriors, etc. Anyone can paint there army in any scheme and come up with whatever back story they want.

There, question answered. If anyone complains there isn't enough of whatever in official cannon, they need to get over it. This is toy soldiers that were left for folks to use their imagination and creativity with.

How does a paint job let me turn a male Guardsman into a female Guardsman?

 Pouncey wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Most Cadian females serve in the Cadian Interior Guard (since every Cadian is technically a military reservist, with their homeworld literally being a fortress planet). There are females in the Cadian Imperial Guard regiments, just not in the numbers you see with males. Mostly because Cadian females are expected to push out as many future recruits as possible, both to meet tithe requirements, as well as hold the Gate from the Ruinous Powers.


As for the rest, it depends on the world and it's culture. Valhalla is one world that makes heavy use of female personnel. It's just that mixed regiments are uncommon. Another is Vostroyan. If you don't have a first-born son to enter the Emperor's service, then your first-born daughter gets the spot.

I seriously doubt that the Death Korps has female personnel serving in it's regiments, considering that both Krieg women, along with "vitae womb" technology, are both connected to Krieg keeping up it supply of fanatically suicidal gas masked mooks. You probably won't find many females in the Scintillan Fusiliers either, mostly because the system of Imperial nobility has a strong patriarchal bent.

It wouldn't surprise me if Brimlock, Tallarn, and Catachan has numerous females in their ranks. Especially, the Catachan. Everybody from that world is a tough mofo.

So maybe not half then.

How about enough to make a playable army with a decent mix of male/female IG models if you so choose? If you did it with conversion kits (or a separate kit if you go with the female models having different bodies too) you could even let the player decide how many of their IG are female.

Because right now our options for female IG are limited to, what, 3 models? One's a Last Chancer, one's a Commissar in a style that should never have existed outside of adult fan art to begin with, and the third's an OOP Catachan with a grenade launcher.

And yes, of course, if an IG regiment has lore that means there aren't going to be women in their ranks on the battlefield, then you don't have to create a female variant for them. The lore's the entire reason that there aren't female Space Marines or male Sisters of Battle, and few people are pushing for the former and literally no one for the latter.

I'm with you 100% on GW offering more female options for the Guard. It's sorely lacking, especially for people who want that option for their homebrew armies.

I dunno gay space marines?

On one hand diversity could be interesting after deployment... opponent smiling at your small force, hoping for a crushing victory..... "sorry brah but all these cultists, they actually identify as terminators" (said in whiny SJW voice)

 Ashley_Chaos wrote:
I dunno gay space marines?

On one hand diversity could be interesting after deployment... opponent smiling at your small force, hoping for a crushing victory..... "sorry brah but all these cultists, they actually identify as terminators" (said in whiny SJW voice)

Gay Space Marines would require Space Marines to actually display any interest in sex.

Though if you wanted to, there are some fan theories that Dark Angels as a Legion have some allusions to real-world stuff regarding homosexuality.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
But every woman out of combat could mean anywhere from1-10 soldiers. So assuming about half are women, thats 2 trillion out of action. However, that means they will have more time and safety to bare children. Most will have 2. That means they take out 2 trillion, and they get 4 trillion. Remove some more women from the 4 trillion and repeat.

So what? The babies female guardsmen might have had if they hadn't been conscripted are a tiny rounding error in the vast masses of humanity. Remember that, for all the jokes about flashlights and t-shirts, guardsmen are taken from the elite of the elite in a whole planet's military. They simply do not exist in large enough numbers relative to the population of a planet for anything related to IG recruiting to have any meaningful effect on planet-scale birth rates.

 Peregrine wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
But every woman out of combat could mean anywhere from1-10 soldiers. So assuming about half are women, thats 2 trillion out of action. However, that means they will have more time and safety to bare children. Most will have 2. That means they take out 2 trillion, and they get 4 trillion. Remove some more women from the 4 trillion and repeat.

So what? The babies female guardsmen might have had if they hadn't been conscripted are a tiny rounding error in the vast masses of humanity. Remember that, for all the jokes about flashlights and t-shirts, guardsmen are taken from the elite of the elite in a whole planet's military. They simply do not exist in large enough numbers relative to the population of a planet for anything related to IG recruiting to have any meaningful effect on planet-scale birth rates.

Except for the planets that just round up X members of their lower class when the tithe is coming and let the Munitorum take care of things.

Because apparently those exist.

Edit: I'm gonna guess the reason that a few posts just disappeared before my eyes is because they were related to RL politics and not even question why.

We do have female Tau models. They're called Fire Warriors, Battlesuits, and vehicles. Female Tau are almost indistinguishable from males when they have their helmet on, because the only difference is the Y-shaped forehead hole. Yes, most helmetless Tau have the I-shaped "blowhole", but that doesn't mean the helmetted ones can't be female. The Ghostkeel pilot is explicitly female, so is Shadowsun.

Addendum: And Tau lay eggs (if I recall correctly), so the breeding argument doesn't hold up.

 Insectum7 wrote:
While it's true that men are generally stronger, it means much less when combat is based on guns rather than clubbing each other. In a world with advanced technology, I'll take intelligence, discipline and professionalism over mere physical might any day.

Amusingly enough, if the Israeli are to be believed, their world-unique all-female combat unit actually performs better in terms of marksmanship than their men do.

Something about less of a 'I totally got this, guys' mindset and instead actually listening to the instructors.

Male or female, you can fire a lasgun either way and you are blown apart by a bolt either way, so differences are superficial.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
It's your toy soldiers do what you want. There are a number of third party companies that make parts to customize your army, you don't have to wait for GW to release bits.

I do if I ever want to use those models at an official GW store. Which is where I'd be playing if I end up playing anywhere but at home.


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 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

Using female mini heads on your IG should not be an issue.

 Verviedi wrote:
We do have female Tau models. They're called Fire Warriors, Battlesuits, and vehicles. Female Tau are almost indistinguishable from males when they have their helmet on, because the only difference is the Y-shaped forehead hole. Yes, most helmetless Tau have the I-shaped blowhole, but that doesn't mean the helmetted ones can't be female. The Ghostkeel pilot is explicitly female, so is Shadowsun.

Addendum: And Tau lay eggs (if I recall correctly), so the breeding argument doesn't hold up.

Actually, I heard the latest Tau sprues for Fire Warriors actually contained bare female heads, so I assumed that was taken care of since most of them wear helmets and Tau generally don't have much sexual dimorphism in comparison to Humans and Eldar. I'm not even sure Tau women have breasts, since they're not mammals.

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
How does a women's character portrayal affect a hero-shooter and how fun/buy-worthy it is?

Because it makes the characters more interesting.

In games I am typically just as interested in the characters as I am in the gameplay, and it needs a healthy dose of both to warrant a purchase. If Overwatch had identical gameplay mechanics but all characters had been generic middle age white American men, I would not have bought it, period. Its sheer diversity gives everyone something to identify with and understand, vastly broadening its appeal.

Characters like Zarya and Mei in a videogame are all but unprecedented, especially in a game that is of such a high quality overall.

This may be a viewpoint that is difficult for you to understand, since the vast majority of video games are made to cater to you, and so this is a problem you have never had to even consider.

Troy wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
It's your toy soldiers do what you want. There are a number of third party companies that make parts to customize your army, you don't have to wait for GW to release bits.

I do if I ever want to use those models at an official GW store. Which is where I'd be playing if I end up playing anywhere but at home.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
This pretty much sums up the thread, the only arguemnt people have are muh wimminz spahs muhreens

Which for lore reasons they dont exist, and there are sisters of battle which are the female space marines.

...Did you just bring up the most neglected army in the game which hasn't actually been squatted outright as an example of how women are well represented in 40k?

Using female mini heads on your IG should not be an issue.

I'd like to get those from GW since I hate working with metal, strongly prefer plastic, and pretty much every female head thing I come across is either metal or resin.

Also GW should really be making them anyways since female IG are very much a thing that exists.

Troy wrote:

Using female mini heads on your IG should not be an issue.

Can be in a GW. There used to be a 25% rule - your minis can have up to 25% non-gw bitz. Some managers seem to have been told to enact a eugenics programme on bitz swappers.

The best part about this is its so moot because again, no ones really going to care because said models is most likely going to die a horrible horrible death on the battle field haha

But female IG are supposed to be rarer than men, guuuuys. That is why they don't get models.

And now back to our latest new Space Wolf flyer...

 Ashiraya wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
How does a women's character portrayal affect a hero-shooter and how fun/buy-worthy it is?

Because it makes the characters more interesting.

In games I am typically just as interested in the characters as I am in the gameplay, and it needs a healthy dose of both to warrant a purchase. If Overwatch had identical gameplay mechanics but all characters had been generic middle age white American men, I would not have bought it, period. Its sheer diversity gives everyone something to identify with and understand, vastly broadening its appeal.

Characters like Zarya and Mei in a videogame are all but unprecedented, especially in a game that is of such a high quality overall.

This may be a viewpoint that is difficult for you to understand, since the vast majority of video games are made to cater to you, and so this is a problem you have never had to even consider.

Uhh, I'm a 27-year-old white Canadian man. I'm even strongly attracted to a shapely female form, if that matters for this purpose.

And I've preferred playing female characters in video games since I was in my early teens and my fondness for doing so has grown over the years to the point where letting me play as a female character is actually one of the first things I check when I'm looking at playing a new game. Doesn't mean I won't play the male options if I like them enough for one reason or the other, but my decision to even TRY Planetside 2 (a game I wound up loving to death) was ultimately decided by the fact that yes, I could play a female character. And then my decision to play Eternal Crusade and even pre-purchase it while it was in Alpha testing was solely on the grounds that when Eldar were added to the game, they would have the option to play a female character (and as more than just a Banshee, too! : D).

So it's not like the ability to play a female character only appeals to women. I'm living proof of multiple games getting an extra customer because they included the option to play a female character instead of just a male one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:

Troy wrote:

Using female mini heads on your IG should not be an issue.

Can be in a GW. There used to be a 25% rule - your minis can have up to 25% non-gw bitz. Some managers seem to have been told to enact a eugenics programme on bitz swappers.

I play at home currently, but one day the reason why I don't play at my local GW might not be an issue anymore, and I'd like to not have to re-do tons of my models to be able to do so.

 Pouncey wrote:
So it's not like the ability to play a female character only appeals to women. I'm living proof of multiple games getting an extra customer because they included the option to play a female character instead of just a male one.

I am aware, my point is rather that it is a major selling factor for us on the other side of the fence.

I am also very much aware that being able to play an attractive female is very popular among men, though for different reasons. I play WoW, you know. There is a reason pretty much everyone plays a blood elf.

 Selym wrote:

Troy wrote:

Using female mini heads on your IG should not be an issue.

Can be in a GW. There used to be a 25% rule - your minis can have up to 25% non-gw bitz. Some managers seem to have been told to enact a eugenics programme on bitz swappers.

There's no need to make things sound worse than they really are. Head swaps are absolutely allowed in any reasonable GW store, and I have yet to see anyone get in trouble for bitz swapping.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The best part about this is its so moot because again, no ones really going to care because said models is most likely going to die a horrible horrible death on the battle field haha

Why even ask for people to paint their minis since the visual appeal of a miniature is wholly irrelevant?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
We do have female Tau models. They're called Fire Warriors, Battlesuits, and vehicles. Female Tau are almost indistinguishable from males when they have their helmet on, because the only difference is the Y-shaped forehead hole. Yes, most helmetless Tau have the I-shaped blowhole, but that doesn't mean the helmetted ones can't be female. The Ghostkeel pilot is explicitly female, so is Shadowsun.

Addendum: And Tau lay eggs (if I recall correctly), so the breeding argument doesn't hold up.

Actually, I heard the latest Tau sprues for Fire Warriors actually contained bare female heads, so I assumed that was taken care of since most of them wear helmets and Tau generally don't have much sexual dimorphism in comparison to Humans and Eldar. I'm not even sure Tau women have breasts, since they're not mammals.

They don't, that's terrible, people who draw female Tau with breasts are deviants to the Tau'va, and will be disappeared.

Addendum:
It's also arguable that Tau are actually several different similar species (air caste are very different from fire caste, and interbreeding between castes is discouraged).

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
So it's not like the ability to play a female character only appeals to women. I'm living proof of multiple games getting an extra customer because they included the option to play a female character instead of just a male one.

I am aware, my point is rather that it is a major selling factor for us on the other side of the fence.

I am also very much aware that being able to play an attractive female is very popular among men, though for different reasons. I play WoW, you know. There is a reason pretty much everyone plays a blood elf.

I also play WoW. : D

I'm sorry so many of my fellow Alliance players (and high-ranking NPCs) are incapable of setting aside the assumption that the Horde betrayed us long enough to realize that the Horde betraying the Alliance would be stupid, since the Horde wanted Gul'dan dead too and the Alliance hadn't actually killed him yet, and then reasonably conclude that the Horde weren't trying to get us killed and instead had to retreat for some very, very important reason.

I'm also sorry that the Alliance leadership is wholly unwilling to actually meet with the Horde leadership and discuss what happened like anyone actually would, as such a discussion would only result in the Alliance leaders (except Jaina and maybe Genn) concluding that the Horde weren't trying to get the Alliance killed but simply avert a more immense disaster than what actually happened.

But it's ultimately a result of the fact that modern writing doesn't focus on a good story where people do things that make sense to them, but instead manufactures emotional moments of various sorts regardless of the effect to the story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verviedi wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
We do have female Tau models. They're called Fire Warriors, Battlesuits, and vehicles. Female Tau are almost indistinguishable from males when they have their helmet on, because the only difference is the Y-shaped forehead hole. Yes, most helmetless Tau have the I-shaped blowhole, but that doesn't mean the helmetted ones can't be female. The Ghostkeel pilot is explicitly female, so is Shadowsun.

Addendum: And Tau lay eggs (if I recall correctly), so the breeding argument doesn't hold up.

Actually, I heard the latest Tau sprues for Fire Warriors actually contained bare female heads, so I assumed that was taken care of since most of them wear helmets and Tau generally don't have much sexual dimorphism in comparison to Humans and Eldar. I'm not even sure Tau women have breasts, since they're not mammals.

They don't, that's terrible, people who draw female Tau with breasts are deviants to the Tau'va, and will be disappeared.

Addendum:
It's also arguable that Tau are actually several different similar species (air caste are very different from fire caste, and interbreeding between castes is discouraged).

Well, some of the ones who draw female Tau with breasts can be excused since they're simply creating adult artwork for adults to "enjoy" and adherence to the lore has always been secondary to creating something sexy.

However, we shouldn't excuse the Eldar having breasts just because they're mammals. Most female mammals don't actually have enlarged breasts like humans do. We're actually kind of a rarity in that way, and since it ultimately developed due to humans in particular finding it sexy for some reason, there's no reason the Eldar's natural evolution would actually result in their women having breasts beyond the designers simply wanting to make them look more like humans.

You can also apply that to any sci-fi or fantasy species that has their female members having enlarged breasts.

Agreed. I am likely allowing my personal favoritism towards Tau to interfere with other's preferences. Eldar can be excused (possibly!) because likely the Old Ones got lazy and made humans and Eldar share some features. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for them having enlarged breasts like humans.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
While it's true that men are generally stronger, it means much less when combat is based on guns rather than clubbing each other. In a world with advanced technology, I'll take intelligence, discipline and professionalism over mere physical might any day.

Amusingly enough, if the Israeli are to be believed, their world-unique all-female combat unit actually performs better in terms of marksmanship than their men do.

Something about less of a 'I totally got this, guys' mindset and instead actually listening to the instructors.

Male or female, you can fire a lasgun either way and you are blown apart by a bolt either way, so differences are superficial.

Except strength does matter, in any and every situation. Cultists get into the trenches? Rusty cleaver to your throat? Some way you've got to get out of that.

Bewbs and a handy-j will do for some of them.

Draw me like one of your titanicus girls!

 Verviedi wrote:
Agreed. I am likely allowing my personal favoritism towards Tau to interfere with other's preferences. Eldar can be excused (possibly!) because likely the Old Ones got lazy and made humans and Eldar share some features. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for them having enlarged breasts like humans.

So literally, "the creators made them look alike because they didn't want to come up with an original design for everything."

I'm not sure whether to be upset or happy that the lore reason is identical to the meta reason... I'm very confused.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
While it's true that men are generally stronger, it means much less when combat is based on guns rather than clubbing each other. In a world with advanced technology, I'll take intelligence, discipline and professionalism over mere physical might any day.

Amusingly enough, if the Israeli are to be believed, their world-unique all-female combat unit actually performs better in terms of marksmanship than their men do.

Something about less of a 'I totally got this, guys' mindset and instead actually listening to the instructors.

Male or female, you can fire a lasgun either way and you are blown apart by a bolt either way, so differences are superficial.

Except strength does matter, in any and every situation. Cultists get into the trenches? Rusty cleaver to your throat? Some way you've got to get out of that.

Are you suggesting that a woman trained for war cannot kill a man trained for war?

If you're suggesting that the male cultist would have an advantage over a female Guardswoman, yes, that's true. But there are also female Cultists too and often they'd be going up in melee against male Guardsmen, and since both sides are human there's a fairly equal amount of men and women on both sides (though Chaos might actually have a higher proportion of female Cultists in combat than the IG has female Guardswomen due to Chaos giving literally zero feths about it and the IG generally preferring to send its men into combat instead of women).

Ashiraya wrote:

 #1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
How does a women's character portrayal affect a hero-shooter and how fun/buy-worthy it is?

Because it makes the characters more interesting.

In games I am typically just as interested in the characters as I am in the gameplay, and it needs a healthy dose of both to warrant a purchase. If Overwatch had identical gameplay mechanics but all characters had been generic middle age white American men, I would not have bought it, period. Its sheer diversity gives everyone something to identify with and understand, vastly broadening its appeal.

Characters like Zarya and Mei in a videogame are all but unprecedented, especially in a game that is of such a high quality overall.

This may be a viewpoint that is difficult for you to understand, since the vast majority of video games are made to cater to you, and so this is a problem you have never had to even consider.

How do you know what caters to me? I've never once expressed my race, religion, or sexuality (or gender even, but I'm playing 40k, I'm sure you can guess from the majority). Sounds like you're making assumptions. I play Skyrim, I'm sure some other people here do too. My first character was an Argonian, because I thought they were cool. Not because they properly represented me, or my feelings, but because I thought they were cool. If you have to bring in your political stance on women in video games to enjoy it, I feel bad for you.