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 Frazzled wrote:
Another point, its been 100 years but chaos still didn't reach Terra?

1) If so Failbaddon appears to have failed...again.
2) How is chaos keeping it together for 100 years? Their big weakness was a lack of logistics and predisposition to shoot each other as much as shoot as anyone else?
3) How have the chaos gods not gone fickle again?

The answer to this, is that Chaos doesn't just have 2 major holes in reality to attack from... they have a big ass tear across the galaxy to attack from. They are all not sticking together either. Nurgle has turned his attention to Ultrama, Khorne is Beating down Armageddon to the point where you are having Imperial Guard and Orks fighting side by side against the Daemon Hordes (Khornes duders are also out beating up some nids on Baal) where the other two are focusing during this time we will see. but it isn't a unified Chaos force

GodDamUser wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Another point, its been 100 years but chaos still didn't reach Terra?

1) If so Failbaddon appears to have failed...again.
2) How is chaos keeping it together for 100 years? Their big weakness was a lack of logistics and predisposition to shoot each other as much as shoot as anyone else?
3) How have the chaos gods not gone fickle again?

The answer to this, is that Chaos doesn't just have 2 major holes in reality to attack from... they have a big ass tear across the galaxy to attack from. They are all not sticking together either. Nurgle has turned his attention to Ultrama, Khorne is Beating down Armageddon to the point where you are having Imperial Guard and Orks fighting side by side against the Daemon Hordes (Khornes duders are also out beating up some nids on Baal) where the other two are focusing during this time we will see. but it isn't a unified Chaos force

To add to this.... Chaos did reach Terra, but it was destroyed by Robute Gulliman and the custodes.

Abbaddon's plan according to the black legion supplement is also to basicly let the great rift spread until deamons can start popping up on Terra. the meta conflict I imagine right now is will Gulliman find a way to close the rift or will Abbaddon be able to expand the rift first? (an answer I expect we'll never see realized eaither way)

There wouldn't be a setting if the Imperium was just always abjectly splayed out ready to be destroyed. I hate to break it to folks, but the IoM has to start winning or the setting is dead. Or worse the Tau conquer everything.

stratigo wrote:
There wouldn't be a setting if the Imperium was just always abjectly splayed out ready to be destroyed. I hate to break it to folks, but the IoM has to start winning or the setting is dead. Or worse the Tau conquer everything.

I believe you are confusing Setting with Story - they are two completely different things.

But that is, also, a completely different can of worms.

BrianDavion wrote:
people whom think the IoM is strengthened and suoper noble bright need to read the novel. and understand the implications.

ok first of all, the great rift means that the IoM has effectivly lost half it's worlds. (per a video with the story writers today, they stated the astronomican doesn't work in Imperium Nihlus, and that chaos is "definatly winning I;d say")

secondly we're seeing mass assaults on the IoM, Ultramar, which was one of the more peaceful and prosperous parts of the IoM has been under seige for a good century now.

the IoM MAY be stronger, but the threat level just ramped up to 11.

But it's not lost half its important worlds. Of the major named planets, I think only Baal, Valhalla, and Mordian were on the wrong side.

And losing the Astronomican didn't do anything - Guilliman was still able to risk his Indomitus Crusade, with all its Primaris Marines, and braved it safely. I mean, at this rate of xenos-fraternisation they might as well unplug the Vegetable-God and use the Webway.

And what's the point in taking Ultramar? It's Terra we want. Unleashing the Word Bearers and World Eaters on the 500 Worlds was to remove the Ultramarines from the equation, not to take Ultramar. While the Loyalists see Guilliman as their spiritual liege, lord commander, and saviour (in no particular order), he's "just" a primarch as far as Chaos is concerned.

Do you also think the allies should have just landed paratroopers in Berlin in 1939?

Frazzled wrote:Another point, its been 100 years but chaos still didn't reach Terra?

1) If so Failbaddon appears to have failed...again.
2) How is chaos keeping it together for 100 years? Their big weakness was a lack of logistics and predisposition to shoot each other as much as shoot as anyone else?
3) How have the chaos gods not gone fickle again?

I don't think Abbadon is looking for a symbolic victory. He may well be capable of attacking Terra right now and enjoying some measure of success, even if taking the Palace is out of reach. But such a move would mean overreaching himself and being exposed just as Horus was. I doubt he plans to make his Primarch's same mistakes.

As others have mentioned, Chaos isn't keeping it together. They were united under Abbadon in removing Cadia, the planetary equivalent of a cold shower. Now that it's gone, the entire galaxy lies there for the taking. There's no need for the disparate lords and warbands to fight, there's plenty of vulnerable targets there for everybody!

BrianDavion wrote:people whom think the IoM is strengthened and suoper noble bright need to read the novel. and understand the implications.

ok first of all, the great rift means that the IoM has effectivly lost half it's worlds. (per a video with the story writers today, they stated the astronomican doesn't work in Imperium Nihlus, and that chaos is "definatly winning I;d say")

secondly we're seeing mass assaults on the IoM, Ultramar, which was one of the more peaceful and prosperous parts of the IoM has been under seige for a good century now.

the IoM MAY be stronger, but the threat level just ramped up to 11.

I wouldn't even say that the Imperium is at all stronger, it's just more coordinated. On the Terran side of the rift anyway.

One of the biggest failures of the Imperium was its unwieldiness and sluggish response times. A planet had to call for aid, that plea had to be processed and considered, then available planets and reinforcements had to be identified and directed to the warzone. Then reports of how progress in that warzone was actually going had to make its way back and so...

The more planets you lose, well, the less data you've got clogging up those bureaucratic systems.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChazSexington wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people whom think the IoM is strengthened and suoper noble bright need to read the novel. and understand the implications.

ok first of all, the great rift means that the IoM has effectivly lost half it's worlds. (per a video with the story writers today, they stated the astronomican doesn't work in Imperium Nihlus, and that chaos is "definatly winning I;d say")

secondly we're seeing mass assaults on the IoM, Ultramar, which was one of the more peaceful and prosperous parts of the IoM has been under seige for a good century now.

the IoM MAY be stronger, but the threat level just ramped up to 11.

But it's not lost half its important worlds. Of the major named planets, I think only Baal, Valhalla, and Mordian were on the wrong side.

Important how? Baal, or any Space Marine homeworld, is nothing compared to the importance of Armageddon. Similarly, Catachan might produce some awesome fighters but on a strategic level I'd swap it for any of the hundreds of Hive Worlds caught on the wrong side of the rift.

And losing the Astronomican didn't do anything - Guilliman was still able to risk his Indomitus Crusade, with all its Primaris Marines, and braved it safely. I mean, at this rate of xenos-fraternisation they might as well unplug the Vegetable-God and use the Webway.

You can't successfully conduct a campaign while relying ever-changing strategic routes that may open up and last a day or close off whole regions for hundreds of years. It'd be like planning an overseas trip on a strict budget and schedule then arriving at the airport hoping there's a flight that day.

And what's the point in taking Ultramar? It's Terra we want. Unleashing the Word Bearers and World Eaters on the 500 Worlds was to remove the Ultramarines from the equation, not to take Ultramar. While the Loyalists see Guilliman as their spiritual liege, lord commander, and saviour (in no particular order), he's "just" a primarch as far as Chaos is concerned.

That's easy. Ultramar is the equivalent of Terra on this side of the rift. It's the central point where sector-spanning campaigns will be based from. You've already got most worlds on this side of the rift completely isolated, seize Ultramar and even those worlds currently in contact with each other will cease to have a meaningful mutual strategy of defence beyond a system or sub-sector level.

Ultramar is on the same side of the rift as Terra. that said it's a pretty major center of the IoM. taking it would be a major victory for chaos. that and apparently Nurgle's taken a liking to it. Abbaddon's goal may be Terra, but the chaos gods no doubt have their own goals and desires

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people whom think the IoM is strengthened and suoper noble bright need to read the novel. and understand the implications.

ok first of all, the great rift means that the IoM has effectivly lost half it's worlds. (per a video with the story writers today, they stated the astronomican doesn't work in Imperium Nihlus, and that chaos is "definatly winning I;d say")

secondly we're seeing mass assaults on the IoM, Ultramar, which was one of the more peaceful and prosperous parts of the IoM has been under seige for a good century now.

the IoM MAY be stronger, but the threat level just ramped up to 11.

But it's not lost half its important worlds. Of the major named planets, I think only Baal, Valhalla, and Mordian were on the wrong side.

Important how? Baal, or any Space Marine homeworld, is nothing compared to the importance of Armageddon. Similarly, Catachan might produce some awesome fighters but on a strategic level I'd swap it for any of the hundreds of Hive Worlds caught on the wrong side of the rift.

Important enough to be named. Baal is safe anyway - Guilliman made sure of it. Armageddon is on the Astronomican side, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. So is Catachan.

I mean, bar those I mentioned, the IoM lost... Corinthe. Famous being saved by the UMs. Angelis is famous for being raided by UMs. Alaric? Molov? The Dead World of Naogeddon? I mean, these aren't important planets, and definitely not to the players. Nobody cares.

Oh, I missed the somewhat famous Feudal World of Attila. There you go, one more.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

And losing the Astronomican didn't do anything - Guilliman was still able to risk his Indomitus Crusade, with all its Primaris Marines, and braved it safely. I mean, at this rate of xenos-fraternisation they might as well unplug the Vegetable-God and use the Webway.

You can't successfully conduct a campaign while relying ever-changing strategic routes that may open up and last a day or close off whole regions for hundreds of years. It'd be like planning an overseas trip on a strict budget and schedule then arriving at the airport hoping there's a flight that day.

What? It's a criticism of the fluff writing rendering the loss of the Astronomican unimportant. If Baal had fallen because Guilliman hadn't been able to reach it in time, or simply the entire Indomitus Crusade being lost in the Warp, yes, its loss would have mattered. But there have been no tangible consequences due to the loss of the Astronomican on the other side (yet), and they started with an example where it didn't bloody matter.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

And what's the point in taking Ultramar? It's Terra we want. Unleashing the Word Bearers and World Eaters on the 500 Worlds was to remove the Ultramarines from the equation, not to take Ultramar. While the Loyalists see Guilliman as their spiritual liege, lord commander, and saviour (in no particular order), he's "just" a primarch as far as Chaos is concerned.

That's easy. Ultramar is the equivalent of Terra on this side of the rift. It's the central point where sector-spanning campaigns will be based from. You've already got most worlds on this side of the rift completely isolated, seize Ultramar and even those worlds currently in contact with each other will cease to have a meaningful mutual strategy of defence beyond a system or sub-sector level.

What? They're both on the same side of the Rift.

the indomatus crusade was likely en route to baal before the rift went up, and likely got back before the rift had made navigation totally impossiable

 ChazSexington wrote:


Important enough to be named. Baal is safe anyway - Guilliman made sure of it. Armageddon is on the Astronomican side, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. So is Catachan.

You mean Khorne made sure of it

BrianDavion wrote:
Do you also think the allies should have just landed paratroopers in Berlin in 1939?

To use your analogy Chaos is Germany and the IOM is Mother Russia. Failbaddon had to win before the productive capacity of the IOM buried him in a sea of imperial ships.
So following that timeline its now Winter 1941.

Hmmm, previously (as in, just a moment ago) I've espoused that I don't think the Imperium feels like it's threatened. Yes Chaos now has formidable teeth which is a massive step in the right direction, but the other threats don't feel that threatening at all.

Can't remember the last time I read about the 'nids eating anything other than Baal. Where's Leviathan in 100 years? The Eldar are allies apparently, rather than the insidious manipulative evil xenos they should be. The Orks are apparently helping out on Armageddon (although I must read closer on that as that might be hyperbole). The Newcrons are a joke, senile space-egyptians pretending to be mortals rather than a credible threat in any way whatsoever.

However, one phrase has changed my mind: 'The Imperium just lost half their worlds'.

That's huge.

So what if they're not named planets? The Imperium doesn't stand because of Fenris, or Armageddon, or Mordia, or Baal. Those are just the planets we hear the stories about. The Imperium stands because of the untold millions of planets funnelling Guardsmen into the meat grinder. Cut that in half and the Imperium are screwed, even if Mordia is still there...

'Sir, we've lost half the galaxy!'
'Don't worry son, we still have Mordia.'
'Oh, we're fine then. Those half-million dudes in snappy clothing will easily make up for the billions upon billions of Guardsmen we now don't have access to.'

 Frazzled wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Do you also think the allies should have just landed paratroopers in Berlin in 1939?

To use your analogy Chaos is Germany and the IOM is Mother Russia. Failbaddon had to win before the productive capacity of the IOM buried him in a sea of imperial ships.
So following that timeline its now Winter 1941.

Oh God that makes the Eldar the Americans, riding in valiantly (late) to save the day.

They really must stop with that trope. Bored of hearing how the Eldar help the Imperium out against Chaos. I'd like to hear about how the self-centred manipulative xenos are actually self-centred and manipulative please. Just like the Americans

I thought the Tau were the Americans? I think of the Eldar as more of American and German tourists arguing over the best beach chairs by the pool.

Of course, once again, its up to our hero, the humble ork, to save the galaxy.

in the words of our founder..."Its Krumpin Time!"

(I must say, this discussion makes me want to read this, maybe the first time I've read a GW book in five years).

Nah the Tau are the North Koreans. Bit players really, but still on the world stage because they're so mental.

Propaganda says everything is absolutely rosy come live with us it's great, but everyone knows that's just a front.

Seconded on this being a book I want to read. Seems like it's got subtleties to it

 ChazSexington wrote:


Important enough to be named. Baal is safe anyway - Guilliman made sure of it. Armageddon is on the Astronomican side, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. So is Catachan.

I'm just using these as examples. Even before being chewed half to death Baal was fairly useless as planets go. It's symbolically important, and even then only to the Blood Angels and their successor chapters. Meanwhile the better part of an entire sector depends on the continued survival of Armageddon.

I mean, bar those I mentioned, the IoM lost... Corinthe. Famous being saved by the UMs. Angelis is famous for being raided by UMs. Alaric? Molov? The Dead World of Naogeddon? I mean, these aren't important planets, and definitely not to the players. Nobody cares.

Oh, I missed the somewhat famous Feudal World of Attila. There you go, one more.

Well you see now, those are two very different things.

Players are obviously going to pay more attention to something like Catachan being conquered for example, because there's a whole range of models and people that collect Catachan armies.

However, the Imperium from a fluff stance is denied a whole lot more men and material if they lose RandomHiveWorld-Secundus than they do if they miss out on the small (but tough) amount of soldiers coming from Catachan.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

And losing the Astronomican didn't do anything - Guilliman was still able to risk his Indomitus Crusade, with all its Primaris Marines, and braved it safely. I mean, at this rate of xenos-fraternisation they might as well unplug the Vegetable-God and use the Webway.

You can't successfully conduct a campaign while relying ever-changing strategic routes that may open up and last a day or close off whole regions for hundreds of years. It'd be like planning an overseas trip on a strict budget and schedule then arriving at the airport hoping there's a flight that day.

What? It's a criticism of the fluff writing rendering the loss of the Astronomican unimportant. If Baal had fallen because Guilliman hadn't been able to reach it in time, or simply the entire Indomitus Crusade being lost in the Warp, yes, its loss would have mattered. But there have been no tangible consequences due to the loss of the Astronomican on the other side (yet), and they started with an example where it didn't bloody matter.

You make a good point, if it's stated that Gulliman can dip across the rift as he pleases. He might be completely cut off from returning in force, at least for now.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

And what's the point in taking Ultramar? It's Terra we want. Unleashing the Word Bearers and World Eaters on the 500 Worlds was to remove the Ultramarines from the equation, not to take Ultramar. While the Loyalists see Guilliman as their spiritual liege, lord commander, and saviour (in no particular order), he's "just" a primarch as far as Chaos is concerned.

That's easy. Ultramar is the equivalent of Terra on this side of the rift. It's the central point where sector-spanning campaigns will be based from. You've already got most worlds on this side of the rift completely isolated, seize Ultramar and even those worlds currently in contact with each other will cease to have a meaningful mutual strategy of defence beyond a system or sub-sector level.

What? They're both on the same side of the Rift.

My bad, I dumb dumbed.


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 Ynneadwraith wrote:
The Newcrons are a joke, senile space-egyptians pretending to be mortals rather than a credible threat in any way whatsoever.

Doesn't the map indicate some fairly significant Necron empires being carved out of the (South)Eastern Fringe? Use to be that was fairly solid Imperial territory.

However, one phrase has changed my mind: 'The Imperium just lost half their worlds'.

That's huge.

Has the Imperium actually lost half their worlds, or is it that they've lost access to half their worlds? Both are significant drawbacks, but clearly one is significantly worse.

 Frazzled wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Do you also think the allies should have just landed paratroopers in Berlin in 1939?

To use your analogy Chaos is Germany and the IOM is Mother Russia. Failbaddon had to win before the productive capacity of the IOM buried him in a sea of imperial ships.
So following that timeline its now Winter 1941.

Oh God that makes the Eldar the Americans, staunch isolationists with a few of their key figures trying to get them to commit.

Fixed that for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

To use your analogy Chaos is Germany and the IOM is Mother Russia. Failbaddon had to win before the productive capacity of the IOM buried him in a sea of imperial ships.
So following that timeline its now Winter 1941.

Ha! Good point!

I wonder if we will get more stories involving the Greyshields?

 Nova_Impero wrote:
I wonder if we will get more stories involving the Greyshields?

my gut feeling is proably not as Dark Imperium saw the crusade ended and the primaris marines dispersed. which is a shame, as the crusade has a LOT of potential story wise, but chances are we're going to get mostly paragraphs here and paragraphs there, (likely contridotory at times) unless the black library decides they wanna make a series about it in ten eyars

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
The Newcrons are a joke, senile space-egyptians pretending to be mortals rather than a credible threat in any way whatsoever.

Doesn't the map indicate some fairly significant Necron empires being carved out of the (South)Eastern Fringe? Use to be that was fairly solid Imperial territory.

Perhaps, but it's not necessarily the nitty gritty that I object to with the Necrons, but the fact that they used to feel like a threat on par with the 'nids and Chaos, and their new fluff paints them as hopelessly impotent compared to that. They're fractured, fallible, petty, senile old coots. They could take half the Imperium and they'd still feel like they couldn't get their act together to invade a Walmart. They'd be too busy hitting each other with their walking sticks and forgetting where they were going.

Perhaps that's just a holdover still from the 5th codex. The 7th one was a definite improvement, although it still pales in comparison to the threat felt from the original codex. I wait hopefully for Necrons to feel like they're not a joke again, considering they're one of my favourite 'evil' forces

 Humble Guardsman wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
However, one phrase has changed my mind: 'The Imperium just lost half their worlds'.

That's huge.

Has the Imperium actually lost half their worlds, or is it that they've lost access to half their worlds? Both are significant drawbacks, but clearly one is significantly worse.

Very true, although from a practical perspective they should be functionally identical. The Imperium survived because it was such a colossal edifice that it couldn't be taken down piecemeal. If one sector was attacked, they could relocate whole worlds to either repopulate or drown the enemy in Guardsman. Without access to half of their worlds, their principle survival strategy (throw Guardsmen at it) is effectively halved. The other half of the galaxy might as well not be there.

That's just on the light side of the galaxy. On the dark side it's even worse. Not only have they got the same issue of 50% manpower, but they can't even rely on long-range response by warp travel as without the astronomican they'll have to revert to Age of Strife-style short hops through the warp.

If it were to play out realistically, what we should see is a brief flare of independent human interstellar empires on the 'dark' side as long-range travel breaks down, and a beleaguered but still unified 'light' Imperium functioning much as it did before but with reduced manpower. Then, in short order, the threats that threatened to topple the unified Imperium roll over the disorganised and weak mini-empires of the dark Imperium, before overwhelming the half-strength light Imperium.

To flip the earlier analogy around, it would be like the Imperium is Germany in WW2...except the Berlin Wall is in place and it's a nigh-impregnable forcefield.

Of course, playing it out realistically would result in some rather difficult changes to the setting, so I'd imagine it will go something more like 'each side is relatively fine because the threats are somehow divvied up half and half as well', which isn't quite how it would actually work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and I was only ribbing the Americans with that I'm well aware of the general distaste the public of most countries has for getting involved with wars that aren't quite their problem yet, and leaders are beholden to public opinion.

Very true, although from a practical perspective they should be functionally identical. The Imperium survived because it was such a colossal edifice that it couldn't be taken down piecemeal. If one sector was attacked, they could relocate whole worlds to either repopulate or drown the enemy in Guardsman. Without access to half of their worlds, their principle survival strategy (throw Guardsmen at it) is effectively halved. The other half of the galaxy might as well not be there.

Actually that should not be completely accurate. Those worlds aren't isolated. Its a half a galaxy and they can still combine to defeat the chaos forces being arrayed against them.

The problem is that logically, chaos should be a minor threat less than the Tau. They have very few production facilities, aren't logisticians, just the troops, and all the fluff had them as being about able to focus as a legion of marines with ADD in a universe of "OH PRETTY!"

By this point logically chaos should have been obliterated or ran back to warp space to survive. But hey...GW .

 Frazzled wrote:

Actually that should not be completely accurate. Those worlds aren't isolated. Its a half a galaxy and they can still combine to defeat the chaos forces being arrayed against them.

The problem is that logically, chaos should be a minor threat less than the Tau. They have very few production facilities, aren't logisticians, just the troops, and all the fluff had them as being about able to focus as a legion of marines with ADD in a universe of "OH PRETTY!"

By this point logically chaos should have been obliterated or ran back to warp space to survive. But hey...GW .

It depends I suppose just how widely the Imperium relocates its manpower. If it's only on a segmentum-wide basis then yeah the light Imperium's probably alright. If it's on a wider basis than that then they're in trouble.

I'll absolutely agree that Chaos should realistically be a relatively minor threat. While I do believe that similar to the Imperium we only really hear stories about the soldiers, and not the massive production facilities and logistic trains that allow the CSM to fight, I do think you're right. From a purely scale perspective, even with legions of daemons backing them up, Chaos should still be no match for the Imperium.

That's part of the reason I much prefer the narrative of 'death by a thousand cuts, beset by enemies from all sides' narrative you found in the earlier editions of 40k. It just felt more realistic. If the Imperium went mano-a-mano with any one threat in the universe it would roll over them (with the possible exception of the 'nids). However, because they could never fight one at a time, because they were so constantly harried they were always on the back foot, they were slowly being ground down into the dirt.

The newer feel of the narrative does seem a lot more 'goodies vs baddies' which just sets up a whole load of problems. It implies you need one big baddy for your big goody to fight, which means the CSM get inflated to unrealistic threat levels if you look at it logically. It also means that all your other threats seem insignificant. I get that that's a nature of the release schedule, with big campaigns focusing on smaller conflicts between two sides with spangly new models. However, it does make it tricky to tell a convincing story of galactic-scale warfare.

It's also part of the reason why I despise factions in the universe allying with the Imperium. The whole point is that the Imperium is beset on all sides by enemies (yes, the Eldar are enemies, unless recent fluff has made you forget). If suddenly one of those enemies turns into an ally then that feels like the break the Imperium needs to turn the tide. After which, because they're the only actual superpower in the galaxy, they should logically roll over all of the individual other powers with relative ease.

 Frazzled wrote:
Very true, although from a practical perspective they should be functionally identical. The Imperium survived because it was such a colossal edifice that it couldn't be taken down piecemeal. If one sector was attacked, they could relocate whole worlds to either repopulate or drown the enemy in Guardsman. Without access to half of their worlds, their principle survival strategy (throw Guardsmen at it) is effectively halved. The other half of the galaxy might as well not be there.

Actually that should not be completely accurate. Those worlds aren't isolated. Its a half a galaxy and they can still combine to defeat the chaos forces being arrayed against them.

The problem is that logically, chaos should be a minor threat less than the Tau. They have very few production facilities, aren't logisticians, just the troops, and all the fluff had them as being about able to focus as a legion of marines with ADD in a universe of "OH PRETTY!"

By this point logically chaos should have been obliterated or ran back to warp space to survive. But hey...GW .

keep in mind Imperium Nihlus apparently is difficult to navigate around, lines of communication are proably unreliable, thus forcing the worlds to be fairly localized. some with good local resources and leadership will stand, but a lot of others are likely to fall

I hear you but the fluff indicates sector wide crusades are common in the IOM history, the Sabbat Crusade being an example.

Additionally the chaos forces should have similar difficulties.

Chaos should be relatively unaffected by the travel disruption, no? The main issue is lack of Astronomican on the dark side of the rift, unless Chaos ships navigate by that as well.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Chaos should be relatively unaffected by the travel disruption, no? The main issue is lack of Astronomican on the dark side of the rift, unless Chaos ships navigate by that as well.

Why? A warp storm is still a warp storm.

Very true, however warp storms aren't the main cause of the disadvantage for the Imperium.

Chaos are affected by warp storms.

The Imperium is affected by the same warp storms and they can't navigate properly without the light of the Astronomican.

'Relatively unaffected' was definitely the wrong choice of words. It would have been better to say 'comparatively unaffected by the lack of Astronomican'.

Actually, thinking about it. How does Chaos navigate the warp properly? Sorcery and deals with daemons? The Gods subtly affect the tides of the warp to benefit their followers? They don't, but just lump it 'cos they're 'ard?

How do the Choas forces navigate? derp I see I you just asked the same question.

I am not convinced Chaos is any better off.

Chaos is never in a better position compared to the Imperium since Horus Hersey. They will still fight each other no matter they hold in the galaxy.

Chaos .... as chaotic as Chaos is, the Position of chaos could be an endless number of different ones.?

The single shot, the only one they would get, was the HH for the Traitors.
The Traitors are in a Position of free raids and "let the Galaxy burn" ... but....
back in the Days of the United IoM, the Galaxy was a playing field with almost no real contenders at the end of the Great Crusade.
Now?

- Tyranids added in.
- Necrons re-booted.
- Orks.
- Eldar not dead yet.
- New guys too, Alien Empires...

So this "Dark Imperium", increasing the threat of Chaos couldn't decrease the threat of Nids, Orks and Crons if the Plan isn't to have a many put into "reserve".

May I add the question if the new fluff is 100% centered around Humans ( Loyalist) vs Humans ( Traitors ) and the rest can go on Holidays until 9th Edition?