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 Khaine wrote:

Quicken: friendly unit within 18" moves again

This spell is hella nuts with the new Howling Banshees - 8 + d6 + 8 + d6 + 2d6 + 3 = 43" potential threat range, 33" on average. Given they ignore overwatch, throwing a unit of 10 across the battlefield to engage as many shooting units as possible could be an actual viable strategy against some armies (banshees viable? the shock, the horror )

Yeah, they can die real far from where they started. All for the low, low cost of one jillion points per model. What a steal.

Slashy McTalons wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Quick thought...I don't have my forgeworld book with me but does it still say Wraithseers can't be your warlord? Because if it doesn't, that warlord trait that lets you snipe characters could be pretty solid on the wraithseer. I know I wouldn't mind shooting at an enemy character with a D Cannon....

It doesn't say the Wraithseer can't be your Warlord any more. Guess the problem is you'd then have a warlord with more than 9 wounds.

I doubt he would be suuuuper viable, but it's not like a 3+/5++ T8 (eventually, even if not right this moment), with -2 to be hit (one from your craftworld trait, one from your spiritseer buddy using conceal) 12 wounds with fnp (from his own power) would be very easy to explode. A few lucky shots from his 3+ rerolling 1s from his spiritseer buddy d-cannon is going to kill almost any character out there and will dent even the ubiquitous girlyman in ways no other sniper in the game can manage. You're averaging out about 2 hits at least, so 7 wounds at ap4...I mean, goodbye most psychers in the game, SM captains and a whole host of other commanders. And, in this edition, everyone takes commanders. Your new batch of 3-6 rangers can surely finish the job and, if not, there is surely next turn, unless your opponent is throwing every heavy weapon in their army against this thing...which is pretty good for you too.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Khaine wrote:

Quicken: friendly unit within 18" moves again

This spell is hella nuts with the new Howling Banshees - 8 + d6 + 8 + d6 + 2d6 + 3 = 43" potential threat range, 33" on average. Given they ignore overwatch, throwing a unit of 10 across the battlefield to engage as many shooting units as possible could be an actual viable strategy against some armies (banshees viable? the shock, the horror )

Yeah, they can die real far from where they started. All for the low, low cost of one jillion points per model. What a steal.

Ever the positivist eh? They're not that expensive, and besides, maybe they got a points drop too. In a non-tournament setting where people aren't bubble wrapping their 10 vehicles with 200 conscripts they'll do fine. They haven't been able to function even in a casual environment for years, let me live~

drakerocket wrote:

Slashy McTalons wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
Quick thought...I don't have my forgeworld book with me but does it still say Wraithseers can't be your warlord? Because if it doesn't, that warlord trait that lets you snipe characters could be pretty solid on the wraithseer. I know I wouldn't mind shooting at an enemy character with a D Cannon....

It doesn't say the Wraithseer can't be your Warlord any more. Guess the problem is you'd then have a warlord with more than 9 wounds.

I doubt he would be suuuuper viable, but it's not like a 3+/5++ T8 (eventually, even if not right this moment), with -2 to be hit (one from your craftworld trait, one from your spiritseer buddy using conceal) 12 wounds with fnp (from his own power) would be very easy to explode. A few lucky shots from his 3+ rerolling 1s from his spiritseer buddy d-cannon is going to kill almost any character out there and will dent even the ubiquitous girlyman in ways no other sniper in the game can manage. You're averaging out about 2 hits at least, so 7 wounds at ap4...I mean, goodbye most psychers in the game, SM captains and a whole host of other commanders. And, in this edition, everyone takes commanders. Your new batch of 3-6 rangers can surely finish the job and, if not, there is surely next turn, unless your opponent is throwing every heavy weapon in their army against this thing...which is pretty good for you too.

He can't be affected by his own power, he hits on 3+ (4+ if walks due heavy weapon) and his Spiritseer buddy only grant re-roll of 1 if the character it's already within 6" of the Spiritseer, wich means you can get close enough to that character to not need to snipe it properly.

Fair points. I always forget how silly the spiritseer buff is. But the major thrust remains the same. It's not going to be a top level ability, but it is probably enough to have a bit of fun with. Certainly is a good use of that warlord trait and a better use of the wraithseer than most things >.>


Automatically Appended Next Post:
War walkers are looking much more appealing now. A double star cannon War Walker is now 80 points. It's got comparable dakka to 3 dark reapers, though not as flexible, (4 shots at S6 AP3 3 wounds vs the option of either 6 shots at S5 AP2 2 Wounds or 3 shots at S8 AP2 3 Wounds...still I'd say the two are close), with twice the wounds and twice the toughness, much better movement and deployment shenanigans. Sure, it's vulnerable to mult-wound stuff, but at 80 points with a 5+ invuln (and probably -1 to being hit), you'd have to point something like 10~ las cannons at it to assure its destruction. I think that's a solid sidegrade to dark reapers, and dark reapers have been standouts for us. Plus there isn't any downside to mixing and matching the two in your heavy slot.

drakerocket wrote:
Fair points. I always forget how silly the spiritseer buff is. But the major thrust remains the same. It's not going to be a top level ability, but it is probably enough to have a bit of fun with. Certainly is a good use of that warlord trait and a better use of the wraithseer than most things >.>


Automatically Appended Next Post:
War walkers are looking much more appealing now. A double star cannon War Walker is now 80 points. It's got comparable dakka to 3 dark reapers, though not as flexible, (4 shots at S6 AP3 3 wounds vs the option of either 6 shots at S5 AP2 2 Wounds or 3 shots at S8 AP2 3 Wounds...still I'd say the two are close), with twice the wounds and twice the toughness, much better movement and deployment shenanigans. Sure, it's vulnerable to mult-wound stuff, but at 80 points with a 5+ invuln (and probably -1 to being hit), you'd have to point something like 10~ las cannons at it to assure its destruction. I think that's a solid sidegrade to dark reapers, and dark reapers have been standouts for us. Plus there isn't any downside to mixing and matching the two in your heavy slot.

Yes Im looking forward to seeing more starcannons as well.

You might be onto something there. I think a lot of the effectiveness of Dark Reapers has come from strength from death (from what I've seen of them) Otherwise they tend to get focused and die before earning their points back. But even if you lose that extra shooting your War Walker is staying alive for much longer most of the time, and for a similar amount of points will do just as well without having to go Ynnari.

Oh, are people really saying that moving zero inches (ie. remaining stationary) is not the same as moving less than 6"?

I mean this game does have quite a few RAI / RAW conflicts, but this isn't one of them. If you don't move, then you have moved less than 6". You have moved 0". This isn't even a conflict.

Here's the problem with your argument: If moving 0" counts as moving less than 6", then you're saying a vehicles heavy weapons will ALWAYS have -1 to hit, as they're always "moved". You can't argue 0" as moving for the purposes of the x2 shots rule, but not for the -1 heavy weapon modifier. But I'm not here to discuss this; we should discuss it in the "YMDC" forum. That said, it's been discussed there ad naseum, and the short version is: "wait for the FAQ".

As far as all the Eldar changes go...

Altioc looking like the real winner here - every army has had a -1 to hit modifier for all their units, or at least a large portion of them; I love seeing all the saltiness of the Imperial players having their BS3/4+ reduced to 5/6's to hit on a number of things.

Welcome to the "can't hit gak" club, Orks have been here since the beginning of the edition thanks to opposing fliers. I like that -X to hits are actually relevant, instead of just being a "oh, ok, a few less hits". Perhaps people will need to figure out some new answers, or god forbid, we get a little bit more tactical gameplay during the match.

Eldar are looking great, I'm glad for them. Fire Prism's Link Fire looks like a lot of fun, and thematic too; plus, all the massive points drops/changes here and there give me hope that GW is willing to do drastic changes to units, instead of just a -1/-2 here and there - some units really need massive price adjustments.

I think if the leaked info is true then gw has got most of the price changes pretty spot on.
It is pretty scary that falcons get a 50 point price drop and still you probably take a wave serpent
I dig the fire prism changes too. Might even make them worth playing. Maybe...

Okay, so we know a whole lot now. Who are the winners and losers? Obviously stuff could change as we find out more but we have ballparks for most point costs and a couple sources on changed rules. I want to say up front that all-in-all the changes to unit costs seem pretty great; many of my "losers" are things that got buffed but not enough, and lots of them still seem more-or-less playable. So, some thoughts I had while I was trying to work out what I want to use now:

Losers:

Phoenix Lords. These guys seem to have gotten point cuts of ~15 but no other real changes. They seem pretty bad still compared to just taking more of their Aspect, and their buffs remain mostly insignificant except for Asurmen's.

Warlocks. Absent very significant changes you're almost always going to take a Spiritseer instead.

Dire Avengers and Guardians. Both are basically at the level Guardians were at before. More-or-less playable but nothing worth getting excited about. And the main thing keeping Guardians going in the index is that they were one of the few units that wasn't just terrible. Now you've got other options. If Webway Assault allows for deep-striking rather than infiltration then big Guardian blobs might be exciting.

Elite Aspects. Striking Scorpions still seem way too expensive for 2 S4 attacks each in CC and maybe 1 mortal wound across the whole unit. Banshees are super-fast but they remain fragile and without great offense. Fire Dragons are just more expensive Scions that don't deep strike. Which is still playable, but you probably prefer to get your anti-tank elsewhere now that lots of other things are even better.

Warp Spiders. Not nearly cheap enough yet. Their gun is just not that much better than a shuriken catapult.

Falcons and Night Spinners. These got cuts (a large one in the case of the Falcon) but still why would you take these over Serpents or Prisms?

Wraithknight. poo emoji

Winners:

Eldrad. Now a good deal for his extra cast, deny, and test bonus.

Spiritseers. Really solid cheap HQ with access to some great powers.

Rangers. An easy way to fill Troops slots that you don't regret in the morning.

Shadow Spectres. Alatoic and lots of nice new buff abilities.

Swooping Hawks. They're a lot cheaper and can stay 24" away at all times, and will basically always be in cover. Excellent for going out and grabbing objectives while still contributing something.

Vypers and maybe War Walkers. A Vyper with two shuriken cannons is now 70 points. This is only a little more expensive than 2 Windriders with cannons. But the Vyper has 6 wounds total to their 4, higher toughness, and a better save. Also they're bikes now too so benefit from all the same psychic powers Windriders would.

Hemlocks. Unstoppable gods of death.

Crimson Hunters. Obviously overshadowed by the Hemlock, but with their price cut and Alatoic they're still a lot better than a Ravager. The Exarch even seems okay -- an Exarch with 2 starcannons is now 165 points, less than a Razorwing Jetfighter.

Dark Reapers. Maybe not the best in Craftworld but Ynnari Dark Reapers were already great and just got 25% less expensive.

Fire Prism. Now a reasonable main battle tank when taken in multiples, due to the stratagem.

Things I can't really place:

Wraithguard, blades, and lords. These mostly just seem fine. They got a little bit of love but not much. I haven't used them much so can't really judge. Wraithlords in particular seem to benefit a lot from certain other rules that will help them get close so that they can bring their CC ability to bear (which now matches a Dreadnought).

Autarchs. I can imagine sniper Autarchs with the right relic being incredibly good, especially in tough matchups like vs Malefic Lords or Commissars. But maybe not.

Windriders. A shuriken cannon Windrider only seems to have gotten a little bit cheaper -- they're apparently 28 now instead of 32. That's not much and they were pretty bad before. Scatter laser bikes are the same 28. I'm not sure I actually prefer a scatter laser to a shuriken cannon, and definitely not outside of Saim-Hann. Plus I can get a War Walker with dual scatter lasers for 70 points. But the reason I can't place Windriders is that I don't think we really know what twin catapults cost now. The WarhammerTV stream said 0, but it's easy to see how someone could just forget that twin catapults cost anything. 18 point catapult Windriders would be really, really good. Even at 20 they're probably pretty strong.

Shining Spears. Same problem. We know they got a 6 point reduction, and they were already borderline playable so are probably useful now, especially with Alatoic or Ulthwe and with access to new buff powers like Protect (which makes them 2+/3++). But they could still be anywhere from 27 to 37 points depending on twin catapults. 35 would certainly make me interested in trying them. 27 would bring Jetbike armies back in a big way.

Scorpions can deepstrike! Scorpions can deepstrike! That makes them much more viable, they no longer need a serpent!

I havent been this excited about an Eldar codex since 5th.

STARCANNONS ARE BACK AND VIABLE FINALLY. WOOT!

Scorpions could already do that in the index though.

 Redemption wrote:
Scorpions could already do that in the index though.

Yeah I never looked at the index sorry. Banshees apparently get insane movement as well.

Ah, Swooping Hawks can use their grenade packs on an enemy unit within 12" when the arrive from deep strike now as well. Now if only they had nice plastic models...

I'm curious to what the Saim-Hann relic is, haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Anyone have any idea?

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Scorpions can deepstrike! Scorpions can deepstrike! That makes them much more viable, they no longer need a serpent!

I havent been this excited about an Eldar codex since 5th.

STARCANNONS ARE BACK AND VIABLE FINALLY. WOOT!

Scorpions have been able to infiltrate or deploy close to the enemy for a long time and they would never have been good in serpents as they could never disembark and charge.

But yes this is an exciting codex and you can be excited about everything else


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redemption wrote:
Ah, Swooping Hawks can use their grenade packs on an enemy unit within 12" when the arrive from deep strike now as well. Now if only they had nice plastic models...

I'm curious to what the Saim-Hann relic is, haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Anyone have any idea?

Where is this from?

There are some pretty nice "free" Ld buffs/debuffs here too, which might make Mind War more useful than it appears.

Some quick numbers for expected wounds from Mind War for a given Ld gap:
-1: 0.56
0: 0.97
+1: 1.56
+2: 2.28
+3: 3.11
+4: 4.03
and then as the Ld gap gets bigger, additional points are worth about 1 mortal wound each.

So you probably only want to bring Mind War if you expect to be at +2 Ld relative to your target. Compare to the Guard power Psychic Maelstrom which can target any unit and which averages 1.77 wounds regardless of Ld. Also remember that you still have to pass the psychic test and that Smite averages about 1.8 mortal wounds even accounting for the test.

So, first off, forget about Horrify. It has terrible synergy with Mind War. The absolute best case scenario here is that you spend a Runes of Battle cast to add 1 mortal wound to the Mind War result, but of course the Mind War cast is not guaranteed to be successful at the time you use Horrify and increasing the Ld gap doesn't translate into an improvement of the average result by 1 until the gap gets very big.

Embolden looks a lot better. Mind War doesn't care whether you're buffing your own Ld or debuffing the enemy's, and Embolden increases Ld by 2, so it's already twice as good as Horrify. And at least in the index it's an aura power, so you can even get use out of it for another nearby unit. If you can do this, it's probably worth it, but you still wouldn't want to cast Embolden only to improve Mind War.

But there are two great sources of Ld modifiers that you basically don't pay anything for.

Hemlocks' aura is now -2 Ld. And Swooping Hawk Exarchs give +1 Ld to anything within 3" of their unit. And these look like really solid units that you're otherwise happy to bring. So you should basically always be casting Mind War at +3 without having to go out of your way to get the buffs. That's an average of 3.11 mortal wounds against a Ld 9 target. It's an average of 4 against a Ld 8 target like Commissars or Malefic Lords. If you pass the psychic test, you are about 72% likely to kill a Commissar.

 Korlandril wrote:
Where is this from?

The BoW review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y27ulIQVUro

 Korlandril wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Scorpions can deepstrike! Scorpions can deepstrike! That makes them much more viable, they no longer need a serpent!

I havent been this excited about an Eldar codex since 5th.

STARCANNONS ARE BACK AND VIABLE FINALLY. WOOT!

Scorpions have been able to infiltrate or deploy close to the enemy for a long time and they would never have been good in serpents as they could never disembark and charge.

But yes this is an exciting codex and you can be excited about everything else

Infiltrate, yes. set up over 9" away is new for 8th edition. Also says right in the main rulebook they can disembark out of a transport that has not moved, then they can move shoot and charge as normal. So first turn position tank close to flank/ enemy squads you want to attack, second turn they get out and attack, serpent works with scorpions just fine.

But remember the biggest difference between "infiltrate" and "deep strike" is the infiltrating still relies on getting first turn. If you don't, you're right next tot he enemy with your spirit stones hanging out.
The deep strike equivalents are much better as you get to drop in and immediately do something. I'll be looking to do this with bikes quite a bit.

Maybe take a Saim-Hann outrider with Shining Spears, drop them in, shoot unit A with their catapults and lances, charge unit B with a re-roll.

The lances will be out of range unless you use Quicken to move them though.

So with alaitoc now thr forgeworld fliers get a lot more viable.
Phoenix were already good, with another -1 to hit they become even more viable.
Nightwings become more viable compared to wave serpents.
Twin bright lance and twin cannons with -2 to hit and 5+ invul make them difficult to deal with for 145 points.
And the vampires. With a -2 to hit, 4+ invul (moving between 45 and 50) and a 6+ spirit stone with 32 wounds will be tough to take down.

Lots of good stuff in this codex and it's making me want to bust out my old Eldar from when I was 10. Tempting indeed.

Webway strike is confirmed deepstrike which makes for a fun combo with Biel-Tan guardians. Take a blob of 20, deepstrike, use the Black Guardian stratagem for +1 to hit and then unleash shuriken death on an infantry unit of your choice. For bonus points get a Farseer to doom the target unit. You're now looking at an average of 38.888 hits and 30 wounds against T4, 7.5 of which are at AP -3.

Fire prisms also look incredible if you use their stratagem. Being able to sit one or two of them outside of LOS is a really nice ability to have.

fe40k wrote:

Oh, are people really saying that moving zero inches (ie. remaining stationary) is not the same as moving less than 6"?

I mean this game does have quite a few RAI / RAW conflicts, but this isn't one of them. If you don't move, then you have moved less than 6". You have moved 0". This isn't even a conflict.

Here's the problem with your argument: If moving 0" counts as moving less than 6", then you're saying a vehicles heavy weapons will ALWAYS have -1 to hit, as they're always "moved". You can't argue 0" as moving for the purposes of the x2 shots rule, but not for the -1 heavy weapon modifier. But I'm not here to discuss this; we should discuss it in the "YMDC" forum. That said, it's been discussed there ad naseum, and the short version is: "wait for the FAQ".

As far as all the Eldar changes go...

Altioc looking like the real winner here - every army has had a -1 to hit modifier for all their units, or at least a large portion of them; I love seeing all the saltiness of the Imperial players having their BS3/4+ reduced to 5/6's to hit on a number of things.

Welcome to the "can't hit gak" club, Orks have been here since the beginning of the edition thanks to opposing fliers. I like that -X to hits are actually relevant, instead of just being a "oh, ok, a few less hits". Perhaps people will need to figure out some new answers, or god forbid, we get a little bit more tactical gameplay during the match.

Eldar are looking great, I'm glad for them. Fire Prism's Link Fire looks like a lot of fun, and thematic too; plus, all the massive points drops/changes here and there give me hope that GW is willing to do drastic changes to units, instead of just a -1/-2 here and there - some units really need massive price adjustments.

If I don't move, then I have moved less than 6". This isn't rocket science. I've heard a lot of RAI/RAW discussions, but if someone I played against tried this on with me, he would quickly be ejected from the building. No-one who tries to pull something as stupid as this would get any games from anyone I know. It is ridiculous.

If a body is at a state of rest, then it has -by definition- moved less than 6". Because 0 is less than 6. Saying "Oh, but it didn't move, so it hasn't "moved" haha -snort- har har -gollum-". The operative term there is "less than". Is 0 less than 6? Yes.

I wish I was surprised that there is people on Dakka trying to use this to get an advantage in games. What I am surprised by is that anyone will actually play against them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

saint_red wrote:
Lots of good stuff in this codex and it's making me want to bust out my old Eldar from when I was 10. Tempting indeed.

Webway strike is confirmed deepstrike which makes for a fun combo with Biel-Tan guardians. Take a blob of 20, deepstrike, use the Black Guardian stratagem for +1 to hit and then unleash shuriken death on an infantry unit of your choice. For bonus points get a Farseer to doom the target unit. You're now looking at an average of 38.888 hits and 30 wounds against T4, 7.5 of which are at AP -3.

Fire prisms also look incredible if you use their stratagem. Being able to sit one or two of them outside of LOS is a really nice ability to have.

Where has webway been confirmed deep strike? I think one of those videos mentioned it, but he didn't actually read out the rule he just kinda said "Webway assault means you can deep strike some infantry or bikes, not bad", which can be misleading because a lot of people will just default to saying "deep strike" for any deployment ability that lets you place models anywhere, especially when informally going through a bunch of rules like he is.

The important distinction is whether the stratagem lets you deploy your models from reserves during ANY turn you choose, or whether they have to be set up on the table before the first turn starts.

I expected it to be before first turn, as that is what the ravenguard/alpha legion stratagem is. If it is actually a true deepstrike, then that is -awesome-.

At this point it seems clear that Ynnari can benefit from stratagems, but Ynnari detachments are not Craftworld detachments, and of course you can't have a Craftworld warlord if you're doing anything with Ynnari (and so you also don't get a free relic).

So what Ynnari get out of this codex is much cheaper everything and then the ability to use stratagems which you've unlocked with another detachment. Also note that Ynnari units can ride in non-Ynnari transports, so you could bring a Craftworld detachment with a bunch of extra Wave Serpents (which benefit from Attributes) which you load up with units from your Ynnari detachment.

Probably the key stratagem for Ynnari is Fire and Fade, to better position close-range units after they shoot so that they can get more out of a later Soulburst. But Lightning Fast Reactions is also a big deal, since it's another -1 to hit for your big Reaper or Spectre blob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiru wrote:

Where has webway been confirmed deep strike? I think one of those videos mentioned it, but he didn't actually read out the rule he just kinda said "Webway assault means you can deep strike some infantry or bikes, not bad", which can be misleading because a lot of people will just default to saying "deep strike" for any deployment ability that lets you place models anywhere, especially when informally going through a bunch of rules like he is.

The important distinction is whether the stratagem lets you deploy your models from reserves during ANY turn you choose, or whether they have to be set up on the table before the first turn starts.

I expected it to be before first turn, as that is what the ravenguard/alpha legion stratagem is. If it is actually a true deepstrike, then that is -awesome-.

The miniwargaming review reads all of the stratagems directly out of the book, discussing each. It seems very clear now that both webway and cloud strike are regular deep strike stratagems (see my post here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/840/741868.page#9659724). The restriction on webway strike is that you can only use it once and it's 1 CP for 1 infantry/bike and 3 CP for 2. But it still seems to me to be absolutely worth bringing a big squad of Guardians, or maybe even two.

Dionysodorus wrote:
At this point it seems clear that Ynnari can benefit from stratagems, but Ynnari detachments are not Craftworld detachments, and of course you can't have a Craftworld warlord if you're doing anything with Ynnari (and so you also don't get a free relic).

So what Ynnari get out of this codex is much cheaper everything and then the ability to use stratagems which you've unlocked with another detachment. Also note that Ynnari units can ride in non-Ynnari transports, so you could bring a Craftworld detachment with a bunch of extra Wave Serpents (which benefit from Attributes) which you load up with units from your Ynnari detachment.

Probably the key stratagem for Ynnari is Fire and Fade, to better position close-range units after they shoot so that they can get more out of a later Soulburst. But Lightning Fast Reactions is also a big deal, since it's another -1 to hit for your big Reaper or Spectre blob.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiru wrote:

Where has webway been confirmed deep strike? I think one of those videos mentioned it, but he didn't actually read out the rule he just kinda said "Webway assault means you can deep strike some infantry or bikes, not bad", which can be misleading because a lot of people will just default to saying "deep strike" for any deployment ability that lets you place models anywhere, especially when informally going through a bunch of rules like he is.

The important distinction is whether the stratagem lets you deploy your models from reserves during ANY turn you choose, or whether they have to be set up on the table before the first turn starts.

I expected it to be before first turn, as that is what the ravenguard/alpha legion stratagem is. If it is actually a true deepstrike, then that is -awesome-.

The miniwargaming review reads all of the stratagems directly out of the book, discussing each. It seems very clear now that both webway and cloud strike are regular deep strike stratagems (see my post here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/840/741868.page#9659724). The restriction on webway strike is that you can only use it once and it's 1 CP for 1 infantry/bike and 3 CP for 2. But it still seems to me to be absolutely worth bringing a big squad of Guardians, or maybe even two.

Ahh, thats really good then! Immediatly opens up a lot of ideas... Though I did think originally it was 1-3CP because you could choose 1-3 units. If its either one unit or two... tricky. Will depend on how many CP I can squeeze into a list.

Can it be used on Shadow Specters?

Edit: But yes i was thinking of DSing 20 Guardians, since they can get a 4++ now as well and a 7" move after they shoot, they could be a really strong objective/shock unit.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Can it be used on Shadow Specters?

Seems like.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Can it be used on Shadow Specters?

Seems like.

Welp thats good lol.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Scorpions can deepstrike! Scorpions can deepstrike! That makes them much more viable, they no longer need a serpent!

I havent been this excited about an Eldar codex since 5th.

STARCANNONS ARE BACK AND VIABLE FINALLY. WOOT!

Scorpions have been able to infiltrate or deploy close to the enemy for a long time and they would never have been good in serpents as they could never disembark and charge.

But yes this is an exciting codex and you can be excited about everything else

Infiltrate, yes. set up over 9" away is new for 8th edition. Also says right in the main rulebook they can disembark out of a transport that has not moved, then they can move shoot and charge as normal. So first turn position tank close to flank/ enemy squads you want to attack, second turn they get out and attack, serpent works with scorpions just fine.

Infiltrate was 18" in sight or 12" out of Los... Also past tense indicates I was talking about past editions. Reading comprehension...

Putting them in a Serpent never has and never will be a good idea especially now when they can come in turn 1 to 3 anywhere 9" away. There are a load of units to put in a Serpent before you would even consider this

 Korlandril wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Scorpions can deepstrike! Scorpions can deepstrike! That makes them much more viable, they no longer need a serpent!

I havent been this excited about an Eldar codex since 5th.

STARCANNONS ARE BACK AND VIABLE FINALLY. WOOT!

Scorpions have been able to infiltrate or deploy close to the enemy for a long time and they would never have been good in serpents as they could never disembark and charge.

But yes this is an exciting codex and you can be excited about everything else

Infiltrate, yes. set up over 9" away is new for 8th edition. Also says right in the main rulebook they can disembark out of a transport that has not moved, then they can move shoot and charge as normal. So first turn position tank close to flank/ enemy squads you want to attack, second turn they get out and attack, serpent works with scorpions just fine.

Infiltrate was 18" in sight or 12" out of Los... Also past tense indicates I was talking about past editions. Reading comprehension...

Putting them in a Serpent never has and never will be a good idea especially now when they can come in turn 1 to 3 anywhere 9" away. There are a load of units to put in a Serpent before you would even consider this

I understood you were talking about past editions. Im telling you that Serpent with Scorpions in it was and still is a viable tactic, I even explained how to do it in my previous post. Add a farseer with fortune and doom and they are an excellent unit to come out of a serpent. You can disagree if you want and write it off, but I used the tactic back in 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition with great success.

I have noticed that another of the new pre-orders is for a "Seer Council" jetbikes set... which seems odd, as warlocks didn't seem to get any changes in the codex, so I am not sure how GW things anyone would want to buy any.

Unless Warlocks on Jetbikes got a reduction? I know Farseer Jetbikes dropped by 29 points... maybe warlocks got a similar drop, and noone mentioned it for some reason.