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naoki the curseblood wrote:
would collecting their skulls be grim dark and also i want to show the chapter has a unique struggle for survival additionally i'm having trouble with making the chapter's culture as it is based on both theAqualyan culture and that of those from Secretis also partially that of Scorn

Collecting their skulls seems a bit too Khornate to me. Their struggle for survival could be all psychological, much like the Crimson Slaughter: a renegade chapter that is haunted by the ghosts of the innocents they killed, so now they must constantly fight and kill in order to drown out the voices in their heads before they go crazy. When making their culture, try to found some different customs or traditions from each of the cultures they come from and intergrate it in the new one.

 mrhappyface wrote:

naoki the curseblood wrote:
would collecting their skulls be grim dark and also i want to show the chapter has a unique struggle for survival additionally i'm having trouble with making the chapter's culture as it is based on both theAqualyan culture and that of those from Secretis also partially that of Scorn

Collecting their skulls seems a bit too Khornate to me. Their struggle for survival could be all psychological, much like the Crimson Slaughter: a renegade chapter that is haunted by the ghosts of the innocents they killed, so now they must constantly fight and kill in order to drown out the voices in their heads before they go crazy. When making their culture, try to found some different customs or traditions from each of the cultures they come from and intergrate it in the new one.

from what 40k theories stated gene seed does have a psychological effect on the marine implanted with it that's one of the reasons why the word bearers were religiously fanatical even before they turned traitor

Skulls is small fry. The White Scars collect the skulls of their notable hunts and dip them in molten silver. It's nothing too extreme. The Mortifactors are similarly obsessed, using blood rituals and suchlike.

Actually using flesh is more gruesome, IMO, especially when taken to the Night Lord extent.

As for geneseed, 40k theories is just "theories". There's not really much evidence that geneseed has a massive psychological effect - ie, not all Ultramarine successors are super loyal and vanilla (ie, the aforementioned Mortifcators). There needs to be a clear difference between the upbringing of Legionnaires pre- and post- Primarch to see if there was a difference, and really, as we see from the Night Lords, many Night Lords weren't all psychopathic gore fetishists. Their Chief Librarian (I think) was strongly against it, and he was Terran, but still had their very pure geneseed.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Skulls is small fry. The White Scars collect the skulls of their notable hunts and dip them in molten silver. It's nothing too extreme. The Mortifactors are similarly obsessed, using blood rituals and suchlike.

Actually using flesh is more gruesome, IMO, especially when taken to the Night Lord extent.

As for geneseed, 40k theories is just "theories". There's not really much evidence that geneseed has a massive psychological effect - ie, not all Ultramarine successors are super loyal and vanilla (ie, the aforementioned Mortifcators). There needs to be a clear difference between the upbringing of Legionnaires pre- and post- Primarch to see if there was a difference, and really, as we see from the Night Lords, many Night Lords weren't all psychopathic gore fetishists. Their Chief Librarian (I think) was strongly against it, and he was Terran, but still had their very pure geneseed.

I see very well them my idea for this chapter is it utilities camouflage and other forms of concealment preferring to strike fear into their enemies by their actions instead of their mere look

I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for the cultures for the chapter specifically that of Secretis and Scorn, could anyone please give me suggestions on how i should do this?

 mrhappyface wrote:
The pointy eared devils would never ally with the Mon'kays unless it was a life or death situation, and even then they're right pricks about it. Allying with the Eldar is not very common due to the Eldar's hatred of the Imperium and the fact that they look down upon all of Humanity and when they do want help from the Imperium usually they will trick the Imperium into helping them. I think, rather than allies, you would have your chapter and the Eldar mutually agree that they shouldn't kill each other while there are bigger monsters in the night, but that won't stop a marine from accidently firing a volly of bolts into an Eldar Farseer and it won't stop the Farseer from accidently stabbing a marine in the neck.

This. You're quite literally dealing with aliens that can see the future (albeit somewhat fuzzily). Aliens that don't care about anything other than their own survival. Any 'alliance' you think you have with them is a front for a deeper agenda that you haven't a hope of finding out, because it's part of a scheme that you can only really see if you too can see how adjusting variables in the present will ripple out into potential causalities in the future.

A lot of people (GW writers as well) seem to forget that the Eldar are enemies. The IoM is beyond xenophobic for a very good reason. Literally everything in the universe is out to kill them. Even (or especially) when it doesn't seem like they want to on the surface. Also, people seem to forget that the Imperium have destroyed just as many craftworlds as Chaos. If the Imperium think they're on the same side as the Eldar in anything they're sorely mistaken.

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for the cultures for the chapter specifically that of Secretis and Scorn, could anyone please give me suggestions on how i should do this?

Right, my favourite was of doing this is to make some decisions about what the worlds themselves are like, and then extrapolating from their what their culture will be. Rather than just picking something out of the blue you think seems cool, it actually grounds it in the plausibility of their situation influencing their culture.

So, what are the worlds like? You've described what the abhumans themselves are like, but how would their world have shaped what culture they have?

It's a feral death world, but what makes it deadly?

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
The pointy eared devils would never ally with the Mon'kays unless it was a life or death situation, and even then they're right pricks about it. Allying with the Eldar is not very common due to the Eldar's hatred of the Imperium and the fact that they look down upon all of Humanity and when they do want help from the Imperium usually they will trick the Imperium into helping them. I think, rather than allies, you would have your chapter and the Eldar mutually agree that they shouldn't kill each other while there are bigger monsters in the night, but that won't stop a marine from accidently firing a volly of bolts into an Eldar Farseer and it won't stop the Farseer from accidently stabbing a marine in the neck.

This. You're quite literally dealing with aliens that can see the future (albeit somewhat fuzzily). Aliens that don't care about anything other than their own survival. Any 'alliance' you think you have with them is a front for a deeper agenda that you haven't a hope of finding out, because it's part of a scheme that you can only really see if you too can see how adjusting variables in the present will ripple out into potential causalities in the future.

A lot of people (GW writers as well) seem to forget that the Eldar are enemies. The IoM is beyond xenophobic for a very good reason. Literally everything in the universe is out to kill them. Even (or especially) when it doesn't seem like they want to on the surface. Also, people seem to forget that the Imperium have destroyed just as many craftworlds as Chaos. If the Imperium think they're on the same side as the Eldar in anything they're sorely mistaken.

naoki the curseblood wrote:
I'm having trouble coming up with ideas for the cultures for the chapter specifically that of Secretis and Scorn, could anyone please give me suggestions on how i should do this?

Right, my favourite was of doing this is to make some decisions about what the worlds themselves are like, and then extrapolating from their what their culture will be. Rather than just picking something out of the blue you think seems cool, it actually grounds it in the plausibility of their situation influencing their culture.

So, what are the worlds like? You've described what the abhumans themselves are like, but how would their world have shaped what culture they have?

It's a feral death world, but what makes it deadly?

The viscious and bloodthirsty predators which are dangerous to the extreme the harsh conditions of the weather during summer and winter the fact the planet is a night world but i have a question how will the chapter travel since they are on the right side of the Cicatrix Maledictum.

But i'm having trouble coming up with ideas for secretis

Gotcha. Well, in the real world, cultures that live in really deadly and dangerous places tend to be deeply superstitious, especially if they're relatively undeveloped. I'd expect your native abhumans to have some sort of shamanic religion based around appeasing the god or gods 'responsible' for all of the danger on their world. Quite possibly your Chapter could have hitch-hiked onto this religion in order to ensure a supply of willing applicants, posing as prominent figures in it (gods or representatives of them) or even shaping the religion to worship them.

For the details of that religion, you could pick and choose aspects of real-world religions from primitive peoples. If you're thinking of theming your chapter after a particular real-world culture (or pick and choose aspects) then mirroring their beliefs can be a part of that.

Was Secretis their old homeworld? Are you thinking it was a feral world too?

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Gotcha. Well, in the real world, cultures that live in really deadly and dangerous places tend to be deeply superstitious, especially if they're relatively undeveloped. I'd expect your native abhumans to have some sort of shamanic religion based around appeasing the god or gods 'responsible' for all of the danger on their world. Quite possibly your Chapter could have hitch-hiked onto this religion in order to ensure a supply of willing applicants, posing as prominent figures in it (gods or representatives of them) or even shaping the religion to worship them.

For the details of that religion, you could pick and choose aspects of real-world religions from primitive peoples. If you're thinking of theming your chapter after a particular real-world culture (or pick and choose aspects) then mirroring their beliefs can be a part of that.

Was Secretis their old homeworld? Are you thinking it was a feral world too?

Well the aqualyans worship a female deity called narsi my idea is hunting and survival are not just necessary but they are part of the aqualyan culture itself
for secretis i was planning it was a medieval level of technology unlike aqualyans which were at stone age level of technology

Yeah I was thinking it would be a good idea to have their homeworld as slightly more advanced than their current world. Helps frame their fall from grace.

I'd expect Narsi to be a pretty malevolent deity. You don't tend to get a world full of monsters without a religion that's full of monsters too. Most societies that live in dangerous environs (Inuit, Mesoamerican etc.) tend to have deities that need to be appeased, rather than ones that are on your side.

It's a bit 'Planet of Hats', but for Secretis you could pick a medieval society you like and just base it on that. Bear in mind that there's a hell of a lot more to medieval society than just North-West Europe...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Yeah I was thinking it would be a good idea to have their homeworld as slightly more advanced than their current world. Helps frame their fall from grace.

I'd expect Narsi to be a pretty malevolent deity. You don't tend to get a world full of monsters without a religion that's full of monsters too. Most societies that live in dangerous environs (Inuit, Mesoamerican etc.) tend to have deities that need to be appeased, rather than ones that are on your side.

It's a bit 'Planet of Hats', but for Secretis you could pick a medieval society you like and just base it on that. Bear in mind that there's a hell of a lot more to medieval society than just North-West Europe...

true there for scorn it is meant to be a hive world where crime is common which the chapter uses such criminals are used to grow gene seed organs for the chapter and narsi while she seeks to defend humanity she is still a fragment of tzeentch meaning she is still basically his property i was inspired by this 40k theory video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz-2lmrqNiY&t=24s
scorn is also the homeworld of both the 79th scorned bloods storm trooper regiment and the true blood knight house

Hmmm interesting. There's a great plot point there where your Chapter (and the world) is basically being led on by a Tzeentchian daemon posing as a god.

You don't really get 'good' Chaos stuff by our reckoning. Nor do you really get 'bad' Chaos stuff. It's more akin to a force of nature, neither good nor evil. However, it's important to note that 'forces of nature' are more often than not very destructive from the perspective of people.

That's how I view Chaos anyway. You can either choose to rail against it like the Imperium, or go with the flow like Chaos worlds. Which of them is the better situation to be in is debatable.

So, does your Chapter know about the Tzeentchian connection? Do they care? Are they trying to work their way out from the middle of one of Tzeentch's plots, or are they willingly going with it because they think that humanity would be better served with a different master than the Emperor?

Also, I'm severely doubtful that the Eldar would have anything to do with them. Barring the fact that the Eldar and the humanity are enemies (which everyone seems to forget), the fact that there's anything even vaguely chaotic about them would mean that the most you'd ever get out of the Eldar is manipulation.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Hmmm interesting. There's a great plot point there where your Chapter (and the world) is basically being led on by a Tzeentchian daemon posing as a god.

You don't really get 'good' Chaos stuff by our reckoning. Nor do you really get 'bad' Chaos stuff. It's more akin to a force of nature, neither good nor evil. However, it's important to note that 'forces of nature' are more often than not very destructive from the perspective of people.

That's how I view Chaos anyway. You can either choose to rail against it like the Imperium, or go with the flow like Chaos worlds. Which of them is the better situation to be in is debatable.

So, does your Chapter know about the Tzeentchian connection? Do they care? Are they trying to work their way out from the middle of one of Tzeentch's plots, or are they willingly going with it because they think that humanity would be better served with a different master than the Emperor?

Also, I'm severely doubtful that the Eldar would have anything to do with them. Barring the fact that the Eldar and the humanity are enemies (which everyone seems to forget), the fact that there's anything even vaguely chaotic about them would mean that the most you'd ever get out of the Eldar is manipulation.

i see well with narsi she has learned the secrets of the night and secrecy she's responsible for the creation of the aqualyan race itself but they are bonded to her meaning their unlikely to betray her she also led the silent claws into her servace by manipulating fate but not as well as tzeentch
but i have two questions first does this include the harlequins? and second if they cannot access the webway then how will they travel?

I'd say specifically not including Harlequins. They're pretty much diametrically opposed to Chaos in any form.

They might be attempting to out-manipulate Narsi mind you, with your Chapter as the pawns in their games. That's a possibility. I don't think they'd willingly allow anything even lightly touched by Chaos into the webway. Hell, the use of the webway for Guilliman is a rare exception which personally I thought was bloody stupid from a realism perspective, and smacked of 'Eldar taxi service' which is just uninspired.

Travel is still possible in the Dark Imperium. It's just risky. Basically, we're back to what warp travel was like before the Astronomican. You have to pick your way through the warp in short jumps, ducking back into realspace every now and again to reorient yourself without the guiding beacon of the Astronomican. I'd also expect more issues with warp travel in general given the tumultuous warp storms erupting across the galaxy.

It's unrealistic to have your Chapter travel the length and bredth of the galaxy, and having Guilliman do it set a bad example for what people expect.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
I'd say specifically not including Harlequins. They're pretty much diametrically opposed to Chaos in any form.

They might be attempting to out-manipulate Narsi mind you, with your Chapter as the pawns in their games. That's a possibility. I don't think they'd willingly allow anything even lightly touched by Chaos into the webway. Hell, the use of the webway for Guilliman is a rare exception which personally I thought was bloody stupid from a realism perspective, and smacked of 'Eldar taxi service' which is just uninspired.

Travel is still possible in the Dark Imperium. It's just risky. Basically, we're back to what warp travel was like before the Astronomican. You have to pick your way through the warp in short jumps, ducking back into realspace every now and again to reorient yourself without the guiding beacon of the Astronomican. I'd also expect more issues with warp travel in general given the tumultuous warp storms erupting across the galaxy.

It's unrealistic to have your Chapter travel the length and bredth of the galaxy, and having Guilliman do it set a bad example for what people expect.

i see your points well i'll have to do so more edits such as removing the idea of them using the webway but that make me wonder how the chapter will send it's loners on hunts?

Small warp-capable vessels would work well enough. It's sort of my understanding that for long-distance warp travel you need something like a massive Imperial starship, but there's probably thousands upon thousands of little locally produced puddle-jumpers and freighters that are capable of short warp-hops similar to how the Tau warp-drive works. That sort of thing would probably be commonplace in more built up systems and interstellar empires, but probably non-existent for feral-worlders. Your Chapter could have commandeered some during their escape.

Remember, Marines live for roughly 400 years. Even if it takes months of travel to get somewhere, it's not as if that's excessive to the lifetime of a Marine. Along with that there's always stasis.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Small warp-capable vessels would work well enough. It's sort of my understanding that for long-distance warp travel you need something like a massive Imperial starship, but there's probably thousands upon thousands of little locally produced puddle-jumpers and freighters that are capable of short warp-hops similar to how the Tau warp-drive works. That sort of thing would probably be commonplace in more built up systems and interstellar empires, but probably non-existent for feral-worlders. Your Chapter could have commandeered some during their escape.

Remember, Marines live for roughly 400 years. Even if it takes months of travel to get somewhere, it's not as if that's excessive to the lifetime of a Marine. Along with that there's always stasis.

good points there

I've taken some inspiration from that of the predators as in the ones from avp

my idea for the culture of the aqualyan race is one derived on survival and the thrill of the hunt they lack honor but do have rules when it comes to the hunt

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Small warp-capable vessels would work well enough. It's sort of my understanding that for long-distance warp travel you need something like a massive Imperial starship, but there's probably thousands upon thousands of little locally produced puddle-jumpers and freighters that are capable of short warp-hops similar to how the Tau warp-drive works. That sort of thing would probably be commonplace in more built up systems and interstellar empires, but probably non-existent for feral-worlders. Your Chapter could have commandeered some during their escape.

Remember, Marines live for roughly 400 years. Even if it takes months of travel to get somewhere, it's not as if that's excessive to the lifetime of a Marine. Along with that there's always stasis.

I have a question for you if it's unlikely for the chapter to become allies with any of the eldar then who could they ally with?

Just a heads up i'm going to be doing major edits to the fandex and it may take some time