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What they should've done was to release the indexes for free and then update then until the community feels the FAQs finally fixed most of the problems - because, as we can see from now, the playtesting wasn't really well done. Of course, the indexes would've been updated with each FAQ.
The process should've started last year.

AFTER the indexes reached the optimal balance, they would release the hardback codexes.

Again, hard fast rules should be free, but lore, art, hobby articles and showcases (along with the current version of the rules) could be put into a "Premium" codex for those that want it.

I remember buying the old codexes not just for the rules, but also for the conversion tips, painting guides and other assorted hobby articles contained within. Anyone remember the bunker templates that GW included with the 4th edition rulebook? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Correcting a rulebook is fine, or even vital. But releasing tons of FAQs just 40 days after the edition was released is criminal. Not to mention that 20+ codexes are still on the way.

I agree with Peregrine on this matter, why should someone waste money into something that will be completely invalidated in a few months?

Some corrections are fine but I've read tons of corrections, which means no playtesting. Basically the customers do the GW playtesting by playing the game in the first 1-2 months after the release of the new edition. And this is totally unacceptable IMHO. I don't buy GW books since ages to be honest, I'm tired of that.

OP: Shut up! Stop Trolling!

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Such a rulebook does not exist and never will, especially not for a byzantine game like w40k.

It is like software: It is never bugfree on launchdate.

Only because we, as customers, have accepted the fact that we buy unfinished garbage. If people refused to buy anything that was sold in this state we would get bug-free rulebooks.

So you're admitting to being the problem? Well that's a start.

The next step would be to hire a team of lawyers to look over every sentence and discover every possible interpretation of the language and grammer.

I mean, is there a certain amount of times a dice has to turn on its side before it's considered a roll? What if it turns once and then slides because your game mat is smooth vinyl, is that not a roll? Can it contact other surfaces or does that invalidate the roll because then it could be considered a bounce or ricochet?

Oh look it's another hyperbole thread on dakka

 Selym wrote:


"Look at us! We're the heroes of the universe!"

What happened to Space Nazis who come in at the last moment to save you from your own failure, and then start purging the weak, impure, heretical, and xenos-aligned?

I read these quotes from the new codex and thought of you:

-The Black Templars are called upon to put down a rebellion on a planet. As they fight they discover that the enemy is managing to put more soldiers on the field faster than they can kill them. Realizing the planet was damned as most of its population was turning against them, the BT are forced to exterminate the entire population to put an end to the threat.

-The Great Rift that engulfed most of the Space around them now receded, leaving behind planets tainted by Chaos. The Iron Hands launched a brutal "Scorched Earth Crusade" that cleanses these heavily populated worlds from the taint but leaves them in ruins.

Fans of genocide rejoice!

Iron Hands are like that - if you read the excellent Wrath of Iron it shows how horrific their campaigns are - they are not the usual "Angry Marines" - but rather cold, uncaring, focussed and extremely brutal.

Eh, personally I think people who start a solid thread per day whining about essentially nothing are a bigger issue overall.

Hmmm...

If it were up to me, I would change their rules to have nothing but the rules and all be online for free. Their website would then be updated to have much of the current high level background for each army. This way users can use the website to help them choose the army that they most like. GW could install kiosks in their stores so users can read about the background for armies and units in stores if they want. So effectively the rulebooks and everything we consider a codex would be free online.

I would then focus my book sales on campaign books. I would try to have a new campaign every 6 months. I would fill those books with a lot of different stories and artwork and the only rules would be related to campaign missions. Then to really stick it to the customer in typical GW fashion, I would release 3 different campaign books for each semiannual campaign each from the perspective of imperial/chaos/xenos. Still the same missions and rules, but the background would have a slant to paint that faction in a better light. Chaos may still lose, but it was all part of their master plan from the beginning. Eldar may lose a craftworld, but that craftworld loss saved a dozen exodite worlds. etc.

Are we seriously complaining about GW fixing the rules to address balance issues?

Also, the core rules are free to download online from GW. No lore or Matched Play missions, but the rules themselves can be had for literally nothing.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Are we seriously complaining about GW fixing the rules to address balance issues?

Also, the core rules are free to download online from GW. No lore or Matched Play missions, but the rules themselves can be had for literally nothing.

You can't play the game with JUST the core rules. Releasing Indexes then needing a forests worth of errata printed out is not a good start to what was meant to be a clear slate. The Codexes won't be any better and we're going to be in the same situation in 3rd where those with Codexes beat those without.

GW can never win can they?

If they don't bother releasing Erratas/FAQ's people complain about having to face OP units for X years and complain about GW not bothering to clarify or fix rule-issues.

If they do release Erratas/FAQs and better yet, quickly change rules for stuff that needs it (either by buffign or nerfing), people complain that their rulebooks/codeci get "invaildated".

Jeeez, you people ever heard of a pencil and rubber? Nothing prevents you from writing down the Errata-changes in your own Indexes you know...

 MinscS2 wrote:
GW can never win can they?

If they don't bother releasing Erratas/FAQ's people complain about having to face OP units for X years and complain about GW not bothering to clarify or fix rule-issues.

If they do release Erratas/FAQs and better yet, quickly change rules for stuff that needs it (either by buffign or nerfing), people complain that their rulebooks/codeci get "invaildated".

Jeeez, you people ever heard of a pencil and rubber? Nothing prevents you from writing down the Errata-changes in your own Indexes you know...

I am not complaining they are fixing their rules. I am complaining they are printing rulebooks that have half the entries invalidated, for obscene amounts of money. At the very least they should update the digital versions for those who bought them (like me).

 BaconCatBug wrote:
.
I am not complaining they are fixing their rules. I am complaining they are printing rulebooks that have half the entries invalidated, for obscene amounts of money. At the very least they should update the digital versions for those who bought them (like me).

This is a perfect example of hyperbole.
You say that "half" (50%) the entries are invalidated, when it is (with the exception of SW apparently) more like 1% of the entries being "invalidated".
Besides, most of theese "invalidations" are small changes that you could easily correct with a pencil in like 5 seconds.
Razorwing Swarms "invalidated" because their pointcost changed? Draw a line over that 7 in the index and write down 14.

I agree that they should update the digital versions, but that's not what your threadtitle says nor your only suggestion in the OP.

Alot of us actually dont give a feth about the digital rules. If GW went digital only, they'd loose *alot* of customers.

 Crablezworth wrote:
There also seems to be precious little time put into ensuring the books don't require revision and correction

As someone who works in publishing, I do not believe that this is true. They are perfectly within the norm.

Editing is very hard work and difficult. I can guarantee you that any book on your shelf contains mistakes, unless it is a 10th edition reprint or something of that nature.

 44Ronin wrote:
Oh look it's another hyperbole thread on dakka

I feel like its gotten worse recently...

Stop being so precious! Its a complex game with so many moving parts and rules...FAQs are needed.

Not to mention its great they are getting onto it so quickly, so we can enjoy a more balanced experience. If that means I have to make a few notes and adjust some points values in my rulebook or Codex that is fine with me.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
Oh look it's another hyperbole thread on dakka

I feel like its gotten worse recently...

There's a handful of players that really don't like 8th. They are very opinionated on this matter and like to let people know they really don't like 8th.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
Oh look it's another hyperbole thread on dakka

I feel like its gotten worse recently...

Mostly the same few people....

Empty can rattles the most

To be fair the new GW is creating a terrible precedent with which people will judge them. The rules and indexes should have been free. The game is SUPPOSED to be stream lined and simple but now you have a rulebook, then several pages of FAQ and errata, THEN an index with dozens of additional pages of faq of errata, which also changes every few weeks. It voids the whole purpose of simplifying the game. I suspect after the last few codexes drop, then they will consider the feedback and by then have most of the bugs worked out but this is an increasingly frustrating game to get into, much less get someone else into.

macluvin wrote:
To be fair the new GW is creating a terrible precedent with which people will judge them. .

You must be new

I'm torn, seeing GW embracing FAQ culture is a step forward, but the sheer tsunami of errata does suggest a lack of playtesting (or playtesting feedback being ignored) and/or very sloppy proofreading / editing

Currently I'm going to be very wary of buying any print material on release date, I'll either wait a few months or find a PDF epsewhere

The flyer thing is the only one that really stands out as a deliberate change, the rest seem to be at worst attempts to make the written rules better fit the intent.

I like the printed rulebooks myself. I like being able to flip through the pages & they have that crisp codex smell haha. I recognize the advantages of having digital products, but they are only good until they aren't. Can't tell you the number of times I used a resource that was online, only to have it vanish & then you are f*cked. In my opinion having physical copies is also a great way of referencing the past. Example:

Why is (x) unit so expensive point wise? Look back at past rules, note changes & see if it adds up. Often times the changes are logical, other times...not so much.

Gibs55 wrote:
Stop being so precious! Its a complex game with so many moving parts and rules...FAQs are needed.

No FAQs are absolutely not needed. Stop repeating this myth. GW is publishing FAQs/errata, especially this soon after release, because they don't playtest sufficiently to catch even blatant errors and balance issues. There is absolutely nothing preventing GW from investing more effort and publishing rules that only rarely, if ever, need FAQs/errata. Stop making excuses for GW, they are an incompetent company that continues to get away with selling half-finished garbage because people refuse to believe that it can be better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:
GW can never win can they?

If they don't bother releasing Erratas/FAQ's people complain about having to face OP units for X years and complain about GW not bothering to clarify or fix rule-issues.

If they do release Erratas/FAQs and better yet, quickly change rules for stuff that needs it (either by buffign or nerfing), people complain that their rulebooks/codeci get "invaildated".

Jeeez, you people ever heard of a pencil and rubber? Nothing prevents you from writing down the Errata-changes in your own Indexes you know...

GW absolutely can win. They can win by playtesting sufficiently, catching these problems before the books are released, and not having to FAQ/errata them later. If GW was doing their job, the job we as customers pay them to do, they would not have to make these changes. Expecting GW to show an acceptable level of competence in game design is not creating a no-win scenario for them, it's simply holding them accountable and refusing to accept a defective product.

No FAQs are absolutely not needed. Stop repeating this myth

Still waiting on this mythical product that has never needed an update or change to it in the later years. Because otherwise you're just yelling "No! GW must make this product 100% Perfect". Without any sort of actual argument except that "GW bad, they the only ones that do this"

I'm even looking at several science books that have needed updates over the years, history books that have changed as new facts come to light, computer textbooks that have had several FAQ's because of issues within.

There's never been a gamebook I owned for board games that haven't been given errata or faq, even the old chess book I have has been given errata.

What mythical unicorn of a book have you seen that doesn't do this?

Monopoly is a game that is always getting revised, renewed and still brings in the big bucks for Hasbro. The rules have never changed. Do we really need to continue this conversation?

 MinscS2 wrote:
GW can never win can they?

If they don't bother releasing Erratas/FAQ's people complain about having to face OP units for X years and complain about GW not bothering to clarify or fix rule-issues.

If they do release Erratas/FAQs and better yet, quickly change rules for stuff that needs it (either by buffign or nerfing), people complain that their rulebooks/codeci get "invaildated".

Jeeez, you people ever heard of a pencil and rubber? Nothing prevents you from writing down the Errata-changes in your own Indexes you know...

GW could win by having their rules be free online and updating/errata-ing them as and when necessary.

1 errata per year is fine.
2 of them whitin 2 months is just pure BS and is proof that the rules was NOT playtested outside their limited basment prior to beeing printed.

I dont play 40k yet but when i do, i will go pirate all the way for the codex aslong as GW refuse to make the rules pure digital whit constant updates reflecting the erratas.