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Hey guys

i wanted to ask your opinion on Primaris marines as their are so many conflicting options around my gaming circle.

I myself used to love... LOVE space wolves, until they introduced the primaris marines. For me... they didn't fit any aspects of what i thought wolves stood for, regardless of the war on Fenris... and It's made me stop playing rhem.. knowing that they're included in the army lists >.>... ridiculous i know.. But im hoping either others share the same view or can convince me otherwise

You need a fourth option of "Accept them, include a few".

I'm into 40k primarily for modelling. Thye're amazing models... Nuff said!

They but I can see why some people like them.
They should have been just new marines and all marines should have gone to two wound in eighth ed.
Instead, well, they are heresy to any loyalist but Girlyman fanboys and without beaks they look a bit boring.
Plus they have call these new toys and shiny armor and better guns that don't blow up when all the best tech was supposed to have been lost a long while before.
Basically the spine of the imperial narrative has been removed for a blingy shiny new toys buy me initiative.

Anyways, I see why some might ask for a fourth poll option but if the primaris are as advertised then there are really only two possibilities, either include (cough heresy cough cough) or not.

I say burn them all with templates of fire.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Hey guys

i wanted to ask your opinion on Primaris marines as their are so many conflicting options around my gaming circle.

I myself used to love... LOVE space wolves, until they introduced the primaris marines. For me... they didn't fit any aspects of what i thought wolves stood for, regardless of the war on Fenris... and It's made me stop playing rhem.. knowing that they're included in the army lists >.>... ridiculous i know.. But im hoping either others share the same view or can convince me otherwise

I actually am growing to like them but probably will never have any. They don't belong in any of the space marine forces I have for fluff reasons so I won't be buying any, although they are interesting and for the most part look good.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Hey guys

i wanted to ask your opinion on Primaris marines as their are so many conflicting options around my gaming circle.

I myself used to love... LOVE space wolves, until they introduced the primaris marines. For me... they didn't fit any aspects of what i thought wolves stood for, regardless of the war on Fenris... and It's made me stop playing rhem.. knowing that they're included in the army lists >.>... ridiculous i know.. But im hoping either others share the same view or can convince me otherwise

Did GW go to your house and put a gun to your head to use Primaris Marines? they're decent but they're not gonna be something that are so good you "have to take them or your list sucks"

as for how they fit in with space wolves, I'd hold off till the codex, the SW codex might make them fit n icely for all we know

They still destroyed the universe I came to love. The Orwellian, futuristic dark ages of technological and intelectual regression of mankind was the part of the fluff that made the imperium the most interesting to me and I feel like progressive minds like Gulliman shouldn't have a place in the Imperium. That said, they are georgeous models, and turning the Imperium of mankind into a more morally defined "good guys" really does make the setting more palatable to the masses and especially to children, who are always looking for new heroes. The grim and the dark that made the setting, however, was definitely damaged, if not outright mutilated.

macluvin wrote:
They still destroyed the universe I came to love. The Orwellian, futuristic dark ages of technological and intelectual regression of mankind was the part of the fluff that made the imperium the most interesting to me and I feel like progressive minds like Gulliman shouldn't have a place in the Imperium. That said, they are georgeous models, and turning the Imperium of mankind into a more morally defined "good guys" really does make the setting more palatable to the masses and especially to children, who are always looking for new heroes. The grim and the dark that made the setting, however, was definitely damaged, if not outright mutilated.

And how exactly was the grim dark removed.

specific examples? because kindly remember Gulliman (like all the other Primarchs) waged a war of GENOCIDAL CONQUEST at the dawn of the IoM. Gulliman is logical and reasonable but that doesn't mean much, the guy is also a immortal Primarch whose likely to be possessed of a partiuclalry long vision. and "the long view" can sometimes suck for people in the "now" ALSO Gulliman can be used to show WHY grim dark decisions are made.

Am I the only person here who noticed upon reading Dark Imperium that the loss of Iax was due to Gulliman's screw up?
An entire garden paradise was lost because the Primarch fethed up and sent soldiers who caught diseases of nurgle to a hospital instead of putting a bullet in them.

Even though it was probably the lamest decision ever to release even more imperial Space Marines I don't get the hate. If you don't want to include them, you don't have to. I'm playing Chaos and never bought a heldrake, not even in 6th were it was basically the only good unit in the codex. Why? Because it's damn ugly. And doesn't fit my picture of Death Guard. If you don't like them, don't play them. They even keep producing the old marines, so there's not a problem with models at all.

Fluff is a little different and I agree that so far I find them a little too flawless. I really hope we'll see Chaos Primaris Renegades. Or non-Chaos driven revolts against Guilliman by some orthodox Inquisitors or even the Lords of Terra. So far the progress of the Imperium looks far too easy (admittedly, half the imperium has been blown up at the same time and it's still the same craphole it always was).

Despise them, of course

I hate gigantic stuff, footslogger infantries in general and I can't stand ultramarines. So yeah, I will ignore them, I'm not gonna add any of their units in my SW army.

They don't fit in my space marine army but their existence as am option doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I am going to do an all primaris army.

Fluff is atrocious.
Models can be fine but I have the feeling they are kinda chasing infinity. Too clean also but that can be worked on.
I hope when the short marines are phased out a retcon will just remove the concept.

sossen wrote:
You need a fourth option of "Accept them, include a few".

+1 for a fourth option.

I like Marines and got some snap fit Primaris, but I've been struggling to put them together let alone paint them in the last two months. At the end of the day they're just more Marines along the lines of Mk.VII and MK.VIII, more of the same. Very meh.

And the designs that deviate from the classic Marine look (so pretty much everything except Mk.X) are the ones I just can't get behind. It's hardly enough for me to hate Primaris, but I don't feel the need to get any either. More meh.

So, where's my "resounding meh, I guess we have new Marines now" option?

I'd also second the "meh" option. The fluff doesnt bother me as much as others, but it does feel pretty shoehorned. I picked up Know No Fear for the Nutgle half though, and have experimented with the Primaris portion. My marines are Red Hunters so I justify it by saying the Inquisition wants the Hunters to study the "new marines". It's mostly a lot of scouts backed up by Stormtalons, Stormravens and jump infantry. The Intercessors have mede a good addition to the scouts - decent backfield campers that do an ok job of watching the scouts backs. The Inceptors pair well with my jump infantry as well (captian lrading an assault squad and chaplain leading a vanguard swuad) and I've also played with keeping a squad of Reivers close to all of that for the leadership debuff. They've been decent but not amazing and I dont really see myself getting any more.

I like the basic Primaris Marine models, not the aggressors or the jump pack ones.

But I hate the fluff.

To be quite honest I wish they would have just directly told me that they were going to upsize the marine line. I would have been fine with that. I don't want all this new garbage. I just want regular marines with bolters and chainswords.

They've put me off building new marine armies completely. And I love Marines, but I can't get into it now knowing that my old models will be obsolete soon and I can't handle the way my stunted old marines would look against primaris on the table.

Yep, I'd have liked that better as well. Just move the old sets to mail order only for a year as replacement sets come out so that people can get the old stuff they want for their current projects.

Of course, then we'd have people crying about that as well.

It is going to be entertaining if new SoB models come out. So many tears over how the new models aren't exactly what they wanted, how the new models are a bit bigger than the old ones, how flavour of the month types are starting SoB armies, etc.

BrianDavion wrote:

macluvin wrote:
They still destroyed the universe I came to love. The Orwellian, futuristic dark ages of technological and intelectual regression of mankind was the part of the fluff that made the imperium the most interesting to me and I feel like progressive minds like Gulliman shouldn't have a place in the Imperium. That said, they are georgeous models, and turning the Imperium of mankind into a more morally defined "good guys" really does make the setting more palatable to the masses and especially to children, who are always looking for new heroes. The grim and the dark that made the setting, however, was definitely damaged, if not outright mutilated.

And how exactly was the grim dark removed.

specific examples? because kindly remember Gulliman (like all the other Primarchs) waged a war of GENOCIDAL CONQUEST at the dawn of the IoM. Gulliman is logical and reasonable but that doesn't mean much, the guy is also a immortal Primarch whose likely to be possessed of a partiuclalry long vision. and "the long view" can sometimes suck for people in the "now" ALSO Gulliman can be used to show WHY grim dark decisions are made.

Am I the only person here who noticed upon reading Dark Imperium that the loss of Iax was due to Gulliman's screw up?
An entire garden paradise was lost because the Primarch fethed up and sent soldiers who caught diseases of nurgle to a hospital instead of putting a bullet in them.

Because not only did someone improve already super super soldiers with even more astartes than ever in a codex before, but now people that believe in scientific progress and technological advancement are in charge. Heresy such as improving the sacred machines and tech of old is openly endorsed now. Superstitious minds are becoming more reasonable and this is the same thing that ended the dark ages and led to the renaissance; writers dared to say that the holy see was wrong, artists found new inspiration, thinkers thought and inventors invented. We aren't in the dark ages of mankind anymore. It is now the renaissance.

As usual, I'm in two minds. I like the models. By comparison to regular marines they strike me as too tall. Then I remember the fluff about regular marine super human and think, maybe marines should be that tall compared to guardsmen... Then I think their backstory is very unsubtle - buy me now!

I've bought some, and might buy some more. can't see them being a major part of my armies.

I like them. Variety is nice. Fluff-wise, I prefer the grim dark story, but they don't really bother me much in that regard, either.

I agree with Jeff, but are we surprised Lore takes a back-seat when there are new Models to sell?

Ever since I saw the weapon they where carrying, I can't stop thinking they are trying to 'out T'au the T'au.'
Seriously, Game Workshop, why the fascination on ensuring humans do everything are better then everyone else?

Irrelevant option: they don't matter and aren't worth taking anyway.

Yeah, more options are needed in the poll. I tolerate them, and include a few.

Fluff be dumb, but the models are nice.

Their fluff is probably a 5,5/10. Their models in general are beautifull.

My problem is that now I can't buy more normal smaller marines They all look dumb after I saw the primaris. I still bought things like Terminators, or Bikers, Land Speeders, because they are different enought to still be good looking side by side with Primaris... but tacticals, assaults ,devastators, sternguard, etc...? Nah.

Funny how most comments are negative but the poll numbers are more positive.... Hmmm.
Something nefarious and dark, or just gw fanboys without time to type or... What explains the discrepancy?

 jeff white wrote:
Funny how most comments are negative but the poll numbers are more positive.... Hmmm.
Something nefarious and dark, or just gw fanboys without time to type or... What explains the discrepancy?

People is more willing to put effort to make their dissagrement public that to express positive feelings about something they like.

Galas,
Wasn't that the entire point of the Models size in the first place?
Your Old Models do look like *removed* next to them, so why not replace your entire army....

I know if I was to go back into collecting Models, and Sallies are definitely an option, I would likely fill my Army with Primaris Marines models but use other Datasheets for the actual roles I want to field.

 Galas wrote:

 jeff white wrote:
Funny how most comments are negative but the poll numbers are more positive.... Hmmm.
Something nefarious and dark, or just gw fanboys without time to type or... What explains the discrepancy?

People is more willing to put effort to make their dissagrement public that to express positive feelings about something they like.

There's also a a noticeable number of somewhat negative posters that do not feel represented by the all out negative or positive poll options.

Im not getting the hate, seriously

I love the new models, they are detailed, have lots of fun bits (if you bought the regular boxes and not the starters) and are fairly easy to paint. Additionally, the rules are not OP, and they typically fulfill a different niche than old marines. I wasn't sure how to play intercessors until I got a few games in and they are solid all rounders and that Ap-1 can really make a difference, as well as their durability. Hellblasters are just plain OP with a banner. Inceptors are solid but I think their point value is still too high, and they should be more creatively placed. Reivers...aren't bad but they need some adjustments and I need to learn how to play them correctly. Agressors are just fun counter assault units. And I simply love love love the repulsor, its a discoball of dakka that shoots all day to the point I had to make cards to designate its shots.

As for the lore, if you got a chance to read the Dark Imperium book you can really see what went into the whole Primaris project, and how it still remains extra grimdark with a side of Grim.

1. The galaxy is burning, chaos is winning and the Imperium is cut in two (thats pretty dark, right?)
2. Cawl is bonkers insane, and Guilliman now knows this. He has basically tried integrating himself into an AI so he can do more work and is pretty much setting himself up to be Fabricator General/Co-Ruler of the Imperium. He spent the last 10,000 years making extra heretical equipment because he was mostly done with the primaris marines when RG kicked the bucket, and the only reason people accept his tech is because the son of a living god tells them to (and even he isn't a fan of it).
3. A good chunk of the Primaris marines are actually from the Heresy/Scouring era. They have been in stasis the whole time are were active members of the original legions. They are suffering just as much culture shock and malaise as Guilliman over what the Imperium has become, and are probably just as unhappy about the deification of the Emperor. They've been pretty busy crusading but once they get settled down theres no telling what they will do.
4. Guillimans attempts at niceness and fair play seem to always end in failure. Set up a hospital to help the sick and wounded (albeit to send them back to duty, but still he wants to preserve life), it becomes the next super plague zone for nurgle.
5. Guilliman hates gothic architecture and Cato Sicarius, enough said

They're boring. Boring lore, boring models and I'm glad almost nobody plays them around me.

Intercessors are gorgeous, truescale marines have brought me back to 40k. Some of the minis are garbage; reivers especially. The fluff is poor, making bigger marines is fantastic. I'm now paralyzed by indecision on expanding my DI Primaris BA because despite being great models their existing BA range looks odd and small, and I expect Primaris-only minis from here out.