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I'm living in a salt mine as a Skitarii player now. They get the same CP regenerating ability on a 5+ instead of a 6+? They can already get a stupid amount of them as is! How does that make any sense?

I think they need to put significantly stronger nerfs into Conscripts (And probably in Infantry squads, and more buffs on veterans), but I think the rest of the codex is balanced-strong. I'll love for the idea that other posted said about making the Grav-Chutes in Tempestus Scions optional like the Primaris Reivers. I have 20 tempestus Scions that I run in two Tauroxes Primes with my Inquisition army, and it always feel like I'm doing just a stupid thing instead of just deep striking them whenever I want.

I love how the Codex allows for very variety of play stiles. Whant a movile mechaniced force? Tallarns for you.
Close and dirty with flamers, sentinels, hellhounds, and even meele fight? Catachans for you.
Do you want a defensive gunline? Cadians or Mordains, one more focused in standing still and the other in using your orders in the best way.

And I can totally understand why some people feels they have received the short end of the stick, this codex is great, the GK and AM not so much. And I'm waiting here for the Tau one... please GW , give me something more than Commander+Drones spam

Seriously, admech players are rapidly becoming the new sister of battle crowd.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They get the same CP regenerating ability on a 5+ instead of a 6+?

think IG get a CP back on 5+ ... while admech get a CP when you or your opponent spent a stratagem instead

 tankboy145 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
B.b.but most balanced edition ever, most playtested edition ever?

So who on the playtest crew plays guard?

Our local guard player is conflicted o the one hand he can curb stomp in the tournaments but he will never get another game outside the tournaments again.

If that's what his supposed friends are like, he's better off not playing. What a bunch of drama queens.

Completely agree. This is a game. Get over it. Played guard since 5th I'm glad they're finally great!
.

Ahhh a leafblower player given the bitterness and 5th edition start.

Look it may be an alien concept to some but the game should be played for "fun" given the current power level of guard and that the codex seemingly only contains buffs often to already good units. Even fluffy lists are going to be very powerful and in a lot of cases not fun to play against, guard are all ready pretty tedious to play against and all the additional rolls are not going to help.

8th Guard are the new space marines in that they have multiple ways of ignoring big chunks of the basic rules and that ultimately was one of the major issue with 7th and we saw how that turned out.

 aracersss wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They get the same CP regenerating ability on a 5+ instead of a 6+?

think IG get a CP back on 5+ ... while admech get a CP when you or your opponent spent a stratagem instead

IG warlord trait lets the IG player roll a 5+ for every CP he spends to get it back. Need the relic, which gives the IG player a chance to get 1 CP on a 5+ when their opponent uses a Stratagem, to do both.

AdMech's warlord trait gives 1CP on a 6+ anytime he or his opponent uses a Stratagem.

Not quite the same, but yeah the IG warlord trait is pretty good... on that note, does 'on the battlefield' include or preclude hiding him in a transport? Otherwise and possibly either way, to the warlord trait's slight benefit a company commander or other potential IG warlord is pretty squishy. What warlord trait does CREEEEEED get?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Seriously, admech players are rapidly becoming the new sister of battle crowd.

until fires of cyraxus comes out and we walk over the inferior fleshy races.... plus necrons for being heretical xenos tech. PRAISE THE OMNISSIAH THE LEGIO CYBERNETICA WILL MARCH TO WAR!

Have we gotten a Relic listing? The video that was posted earlier didn't show them in any great detail.

Valkyries get +1 to hit while hovering
Bullgryn Slabshields are now "add +2 to your saves"
Armored Sentinels have +1 Tougness

Anything on veterans and the company commander getting access to carapace armour or camo cloaks again?

This is a great codex that will bring variety to the army. Before what did we have? Conscripts, Scions, Tauroxes and indirect fire? All well and good but the only variation was some liked to drop in Assassin spam, some liked to drop in Psyker spam.

Now what we have? We don't even know yet, but for sure we'll have a lot more powerful army variants, and we didn't even lose the previous lists. It's a good codex.

Elysians are still great, assuming they're legal.

If the power level is an issue, blame it on the blandness of AdMech, not on this release. A boring uninspired book with very few interesting things like the AdMech shouldn't be the standard for anything. I'd just let the meta settle and hope future codices are all competitive and spicy.

 Stus67 wrote:

Bullgryn Slabshields are now "add +2 to your saves"

In what way this is different than before? I know before it whas "Your armour save is 2+"(The slabshield is the 2+ armour save no?)

 Galas wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:

Bullgryn Slabshields are now "add +2 to your saves"

In what way this is different than before? I know before it whas "Your armour save is 2+"(The slabshield is the 2+ armour save no?)

It can effect invulnerable saves now. So Celestine giving them a 6+ now becomes a 4+. Combine that with Psychic Barrier and the Take Cover stratagem and you now have 0+ 2++ bullgryns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whereas before the Slabshield only gave you a 2+ armor save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:
Anything on veterans and the company commander getting access to carapace armour or camo cloaks again?

That's starting to look like a dead meme sadly. I couldn't see it anywhere in the last video either when he was flipping through pages.

Don't celestine gives a 6++ buble, not a 6+ buble? Why it interacts with this shield?

 Galas wrote:
Don't celestine gives a 6++ buble, not a 6+ buble? Why it interacts with this shield?

Because the Slabeshields add +2 to your saves. Not armor. Any save.

Oh, wow. Ok, thats a pretty strong buff. It makes the 4++ invulnerable shield a little weak in comparison, no? My inquisitorial army with Celestine and my squad of Bullgryns is gonna love this

 Galas wrote:
Oh, wow. Ok, thats a pretty strong buff. It makes the 4++ invulnerable shield a little weak in comparison, no?

You can stack the same amount of buffs on the bruteshield, but the slabshield also increases your armor which can then benefit from cover. So it's mostly situational.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I want to point out in the miniwargaming video is that they said most point values have stayed the same, then they continue to talk about the point values that did change, and there was no mention of Plasma.

That leads me to believe that plasma hasn't actually changed, and the last guy just misspoke and meant Plasma cannons.

 Stus67 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Oh, wow. Ok, thats a pretty strong buff. It makes the 4++ invulnerable shield a little weak in comparison, no?

You can stack the same amount of buffs on the bruteshield, but the slabshield also increases your armor which can then benefit from cover. So it's mostly situational.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I want to point out in the miniwargaming video is that they said most point values have stayed the same, then they continue to talk about the point values that did change, and there was no mention of Plasma.

That leads me to believe that plasma hasn't actually changed, and the last guy just misspoke and meant Plasma cannons.

This is the big question for me, what is the change to the plasma gun cost - might have to wait till the official release to find out for sure.

The guy in on the right also mentions scions a lot and prefers them so you think a huge change like bumping up the cost of plasmaguns would be one of the first thing he talks about, but it's never mentioned throughout the whole video.

I watched Winter SEO's video again, and he does seem pretty clear that BS4+ unit plasma guns are 7 points, and BS3+ are 13 points. Throws me for a loop where he got that 'was 15 points' from.

Also looking carefully at the points page, there are multiple entries for the plasma guns on there, can't read anything clearly though.

Codex looks pretty OP. I really don't like being the new Taudar. At least they balanced the crap units better. Now at least we have some pretty good units instead of having to pick between OP and crap. We should be able to build something that doesn't power bomb every other army. If players were complaining before I can't see it get anything but worse.

 Therion wrote:
This is a great codex that will bring variety to the army. Before what did we have? Conscripts, Scions, Tauroxes and indirect fire? All well and good but the only variation was some liked to drop in Assassin spam, some liked to drop in Psyker spam.

Now what we have? We don't even know yet, but for sure we'll have a lot more powerful army variants, and we didn't even lose the previous lists. It's a good codex.

Elysians are still great, assuming they're legal.

If the power level is an issue, blame it on the blandness of AdMech, not on this release. A bland uninspired book with very few interesting things like the AdMech shouldn't be the standard for anything. I'd just let the meta settle and hope future codices are all competitive and spicy.

It amazes me how people will defend absolute cheese when it is for their favorite army. You've got a broken mess of OP bs. The "bland" codices look bland because they are balanced, if they had the same options guard has you'd start complaining about guard being bland again.

I still don't get why guard players can't admit when things are busted. Admech players generally agreed the convocation formations were busted for all their free stuff, tau players new the riptide/storm surge was OP, never saw eldar players arguing scatter bikes were super balanced. Why is it just guard who likes to pretend their absurd cheese is balanced and fair?

I can agree with your first paragraph, but not your second.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Therion wrote:
This is a great codex that will bring variety to the army. Before what did we have? Conscripts, Scions, Tauroxes and indirect fire? All well and good but the only variation was some liked to drop in Assassin spam, some liked to drop in Psyker spam.

Now what we have? We don't even know yet, but for sure we'll have a lot more powerful army variants, and we didn't even lose the previous lists. It's a good codex.

Elysians are still great, assuming they're legal.

If the power level is an issue, blame it on the blandness of AdMech, not on this release. A bland uninspired book with very few interesting things like the AdMech shouldn't be the standard for anything. I'd just let the meta settle and hope future codices are all competitive and spicy.

It amazes me how people will defend absolute cheese when it is for their favorite army. You've got a broken mess of OP bs. The "bland" codices look bland because they are balanced, if they had the same options guard has you'd start complaining about guard being bland again.

I still don't get why guard players can't admit when things are busted. Admech players generally agreed the convocation formations were busted for all their free stuff, tau players new the riptide/storm surge was OP, never saw eldar players arguing scatter bikes were super balanced. Why is it just guard who likes to pretend their absurd cheese is balanced and fair?

Point of fact, you actually did see many Eldar players arguing that Scatter Bikes were balanced and Riptide/Stormsurges weren't broken was a common mantra from Tau players. You also had AdMech players who argued that the Convocation formations were "fluffy and how the army should be played, not broken up into 3 books".

He's actually correct in any regards. I had no interest running Conscripts or Imperial soup before and now it looks like my wishes have been answered.

Cadia's coming back in a big way for me seeing everything now. I will totally acknowledge that seeing how the Cadians got a unique Tank Order and their Warlord trait allows for you to tack an Order onto a second unit is going to be huge coupled with the Laurels of Command(allowing for you to issue a second Order to the same unit), their Regimental trait is far better than I originally thought.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Therion wrote:
This is a great codex that will bring variety to the army. Before what did we have? Conscripts, Scions, Tauroxes and indirect fire? All well and good but the only variation was some liked to drop in Assassin spam, some liked to drop in Psyker spam.

Now what we have? We don't even know yet, but for sure we'll have a lot more powerful army variants, and we didn't even lose the previous lists. It's a good codex.

Elysians are still great, assuming they're legal.

If the power level is an issue, blame it on the blandness of AdMech, not on this release. A bland uninspired book with very few interesting things like the AdMech shouldn't be the standard for anything. I'd just let the meta settle and hope future codices are all competitive and spicy.

It amazes me how people will defend absolute cheese when it is for their favorite army. You've got a broken mess of OP bs. The "bland" codices look bland because they are balanced, if they had the same options guard has you'd start complaining about guard being bland again.

I still don't get why guard players can't admit when things are busted. Admech players generally agreed the convocation formations were busted for all their free stuff, tau players new the riptide/storm surge was OP, never saw eldar players arguing scatter bikes were super balanced. Why is it just guard who likes to pretend their absurd cheese is balanced and fair?

Who is pretending? I've been around longer than many, and part of being around since RT and 2nd edition tournaments means every army has been your favorite army and on your shelf at some point in time. Every army gets to have their five minutes of fame. In case of Eldar, maybe a lot more than five.

I just don't take some army being competitive, maybe even the most competitive army for the time being as seriously as you do. It never lasts that long. Your whine is irrelevant and unnecessary. It's inevitable that codex power levels aren't equal. I'm much more interested in internal balance, and happy if the hobbyist is given multiple decently competitive builds.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Therion wrote:
This is a great codex that will bring variety to the army. Before what did we have? Conscripts, Scions, Tauroxes and indirect fire? All well and good but the only variation was some liked to drop in Assassin spam, some liked to drop in Psyker spam.

Now what we have? We don't even know yet, but for sure we'll have a lot more powerful army variants, and we didn't even lose the previous lists. It's a good codex.

Elysians are still great, assuming they're legal.

If the power level is an issue, blame it on the blandness of AdMech, not on this release. A bland uninspired book with very few interesting things like the AdMech shouldn't be the standard for anything. I'd just let the meta settle and hope future codices are all competitive and spicy.

It amazes me how people will defend absolute cheese when it is for their favorite army. You've got a broken mess of OP bs. The "bland" codices look bland because they are balanced, if they had the same options guard has you'd start complaining about guard being bland again.

I still don't get why guard players can't admit when things are busted. Admech players generally agreed the convocation formations were busted for all their free stuff, tau players new the riptide/storm surge was OP, never saw eldar players arguing scatter bikes were super balanced. Why is it just guard who likes to pretend their absurd cheese is balanced and fair?

Literally, look up ONE post at mine. I get so sick of people lumping us all together because some people won't admit it's OP. There is a large group of us on THIS website that have been open about this.

 Therion wrote:
Who is pretending? I've been around longer than many, and part of being around since RT and 2nd edition tournaments means every army has been your favorite army and on your shelf at some point in time. Every army gets to have five minutes of fame. In case of Eldar, maybe a lot more than five. I just don't take some army being competitive, maybe even the most competitive army for the time being as seriously as you do. It never lasts that long. Your whine is irrelevant and unnecessary.

I'm annoyed because of how you keep phrasing in. It's not guard being merely competitive, but broken. Even before you were arguing they did a good job with the codex, which they objectively did not. A broken codex is not something that should be praised.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Point of fact, you actually did see many Eldar players arguing that Scatter Bikes were balanced and Riptide/Stormsurges weren't broken was a common mantra from Tau players. You also had AdMech players who argued that the Convocation formations were "fluffy and how the army should be played, not broken up into 3 books".

That's not at all what I saw, even when I was just lurking on these forums. At least I never saw the overwhelming majority praising broken units and formations. The same holds true in my irl group. The guy who played eldar only used the broken stuff against the tau army or one of the other cheesier lists and both fully admitted which units were broken. But try to even suggest something isn't balanced in the guard player's army.

SeanDrake wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:

 argonak wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:
B.b.but most balanced edition ever, most playtested edition ever?

So who on the playtest crew plays guard?

Our local guard player is conflicted o the one hand he can curb stomp in the tournaments but he will never get another game outside the tournaments again.

If that's what his supposed friends are like, he's better off not playing. What a bunch of drama queens.

Completely agree. This is a game. Get over it. Played guard since 5th I'm glad they're finally great!
.

Ahhh a leafblower player given the bitterness and 5th edition start.

Look it may be an alien concept to some but the game should be played for "fun" given the current power level of guard and that the codex seemingly only contains buffs often to already good units. Even fluffy lists are going to be very powerful and in a lot of cases not fun to play against, guard are all ready pretty tedious to play against and all the additional rolls are not going to help.

8th Guard are the new space marines in that they have multiple ways of ignoring big chunks of the basic rules and that ultimately was one of the major issue with 7th and we saw how that turned out.

Well to start never played leaf blower or played against it. Like I said russes and infantry squads for me. Only ever got my first artillery piece(manticore) right before 8th edition dropped and I've never run vendettas as I don't care for flyers. So only thing ive tried out is mech vets. But they were pretty bad last edition as were vehicles in general which is when I started trying chimeras. But nice assumption on

And like I said the only crazy stuff that is bothersome is conscript spam, mortars(chick hws got a point hike) and super heavies.
And let's be honest aside from the shadow sword and the transport superheavy none of the other were really that good as for a few more points an imperial knight was far superior in every way. So sure the shadow sword now hits a minimum of 3 times but can hit max 9. It onliterates what it shoots at...BUT THATS WHAT A VOLCANOE CANNON DOES!!!! sure maybe it should get a point increase gw is pretty good with coming out with fast faq's and chapter approved as well. But if your a strait tourney player guess what! If it's that freaking good the tourney will probably limit it to one super heavy baneblade variant per army or just ban it in general like most tournaments have in the past.

And everyone cried how flavor was taken away from guard when the index dropped. Well what did you think was going to happen when regimental doctrine came out, it's free bonuses to allow you to play armies different ways.

Basilisk getting ap3. It was needed to make it different from battle tank as battle tank now if moves half fires twice. I would much rather have a battle tank moving slowly double tapping than a 2d6 pick the highest with 1 point strengths night and same ap and damage. Now with it being ap3 the earthshaker differentiates itself from having too similar a profile.

Scions got their boost in plasma and that was needed and expected.

Conscripts are still great for what they do. I've only ever run 40 conscripts, 2 units of 20 so that won't change how I run them. But I've never had an opponent complain about 40 conscripts. Sure if you play against that douche that brings 80+ then it gets annoying but I've only ever seen that at tournaments. They will probably get limited more at tournements or even get a further nerf from chapter approved or an FAQ.

As each and every codex comes out further I'm sure everyone will cry about each one as well with whatever they get for their armies. It's sad when people have to abuse the best units. Yea it might seem like a casual guard army is rather hard to fight against but that's what will happen with each and every army that gets their codex updated. I know prior to this release I struggled against marines and GK because of all the new things they have.

Let time play out. Let FAQ's and chapter approved come out, let other armies get their codexs with their buffs. I'm sure guard won't be at the top for long.