Who is the Goodest in the Universe?

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**KTar**

Don't say Necrons are mindless killers. Read their newest fluff. They don't even want to rule the galaxy. They just want to fix what occurred with the Immertium knowing full well all the psychic races are just making it worse and want to stop the Tyranid Invasion. Heck some of the necron royals want to make guests with the other races and teach them Necrontyr culture.

They even realize how off putting their robotic bodies are and want to some way go back to flesh and blood bodies.

**Cream Tea**

RedCommander wrote:

The funny thing about 40k is that the "most good" faction, ie. the Imperium, is absolutely ruthless and totalitarian. But what is the alternative for normal human beings? Eaten by Tyranids? Killed by Necrons? Killed and/or corrupted by chaos? Conquered by Tau? Beaten to death by Orks? Tortured to death by Dark Eldar/regular Eldar? Unlike all the other factions, Imperium wants peace and order and they'll do anything it takes to achieve this very thing. So, the difference is that the other factions only want destructive ends and the Imperium wants destructive *and* constructive ends. By default, Imperium is the "goodest" of the setting.

I don't see how the Imperium could be considered "more good" than the T'au Empire or the Craftworld Aeldari. All of those factions want survival, prosperity, and dominion over others. I'd say the Imperium is the most oppressive and least moral of the three, with the T'au being more moral than the Aeldari mostly by virtue of being less xenophobic and condescending. All of them are xenophobic and condescending though.

**TangoTwoBravo**

The Dark Angels embrace diversity. They believe in Salvation and Redemption. One time they didn't virus bomb a planet. Clearly the goodest.

**RedCommander**

Cream Tea wrote:

I don't see how the Imperium could be considered "more good" than the T'au Empire or the Craftworld Aeldari. All of those factions want survival, prosperity, and dominion over others. I'd say the Imperium is the most oppressive and least moral of the three, with the T'au being more moral than the Aeldari mostly by virtue of being less xenophobic and condescending. All of them are xenophobic and condescending though.

Ah, I thought this argument would arise.

Tau and Eldar are utterly wrong because they are xenos and therefore deserving of a prometheum bath.

I'd say the Imperium is the most noble and moral of these three because they realize the above fact and make their best to annihilate the remaining two.

Q.E.D.

**Wyzilla**

Cream Tea wrote:
RedCommander wrote:

The funny thing about 40k is that the "most good" faction, ie. the Imperium, is absolutely ruthless and totalitarian. But what is the alternative for normal human beings? Eaten by Tyranids? Killed by Necrons? Killed and/or corrupted by chaos? Conquered by Tau? Beaten to death by Orks? Tortured to death by Dark Eldar/regular Eldar? Unlike all the other factions, Imperium wants peace and order and they'll do anything it takes to achieve this very thing. So, the difference is that the other factions only want destructive ends and the Imperium wants destructive *and* constructive ends. By default, Imperium is the "goodest" of the setting.

I don't see how the Imperium could be considered "more good" than the T'au Empire or the Craftworld Aeldari. All of those factions want survival, prosperity, and dominion over others. I'd say the Imperium is the most oppressive and least moral of the three, with the T'au being more moral than the Aeldari mostly by virtue of being less xenophobic and condescending. All of them are xenophobic and condescending though.

Except they are all the same, desiring total dominion of their species above all others which will likely lead to violent suppression of everything that raises a hand in protest. Regardless they are all good in that they pursue means to preserve their species in a ridiculously hostile universe. Their governments are justified in their actions up until they no longer become necessary. Although one could question the validity of if there is any moral prerogative to care for the well being of another species.

**nareik**

Cream Tea wrote:
KTar wrote:

Now for a vote for the most evil I'd vote for the Tyranids for obvious reasons, but that's also like saying the lion is evil when it attacks the gazelle

No, it's not. Lions are non-sapient animals. Many individual Tyranids may not themselves be sapient, but the Hive Mind definitely is. If we accept morality outside of humanity as a thing, the Hive Mind is definitely evil. In other words, if Dark Eldar can be evil, the Tyranids can, too.

It's an interesting inversion.

Humans as groups struggle to be very sapient (mob rule, etc)*. Tyrannids are the opposite; they are unsapient as individuals** but collectively intelligent.

*unless you include warp oddities like chaos daemons and gods as the manifestation collective humans sapiency.

**obviously with some exceptions; genestealers, tyrants, possibly lictors and so on.

**Dakka Wolf**

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The Dark Angels embrace diversity. They believe in Salvation and Redemption. One time they didn't virus bomb a planet. Clearly the goodest.

Too bad their idea of redemption kind of means redemption after death. Rotting aside dead people don't change much so redemption after death is kind of pointless.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RedCommander wrote:
Cream Tea wrote:

I don't see how the Imperium could be considered "more good" than the T'au Empire or the Craftworld Aeldari. All of those factions want survival, prosperity, and dominion over others. I'd say the Imperium is the most oppressive and least moral of the three, with the T'au being more moral than the Aeldari mostly by virtue of being less xenophobic and condescending. All of them are xenophobic and condescending though.

Ah, I thought this argument would arise.

Tau and Eldar are utterly wrong because they are xenos and therefore deserving of a prometheum bath.

I'd say the Imperium is the most noble and moral of these three because they realize the above fact and make their best to annihilate the remaining two.

Q.E.D.

My Deathwatch army loves your answer.

**Lance845**

nareik wrote:
Cream Tea wrote:
KTar wrote:

Now for a vote for the most evil I'd vote for the Tyranids for obvious reasons, but that's also like saying the lion is evil when it attacks the gazelle

No, it's not. Lions are non-sapient animals. Many individual Tyranids may not themselves be sapient, but the Hive Mind definitely is. If we accept morality outside of humanity as a thing, the Hive Mind is definitely evil. In other words, if Dark Eldar can be evil, the Tyranids can, too.
It's an interesting inversion.

Humans as groups struggle to be very sapient (mob rule, etc)*. Tyrannids are the opposite; they are unsapient as individuals** but collectively intelligent.

*unless you include warp oddities like chaos daemons and gods as the manifestation collective humans sapiency.

**obviously with some exceptions; genestealers, tyrants, possibly lictors and so on.

More importantly, even if the Nids collectively are sapient, they do not consider other life forms to be.

Other species are nothing more than indigestion while they devour worlds. Clever indigestion is still just indigestion.

The Enders Game series has a series of classifications of foreignness. http://enderverse.wikia.com/wiki/Hierarchy_of_Foreignness

I am sure the Nids would consider everyone else Varelse at best and Djur most of the time.

**Elbows**

I've got to add my vote to Tyranids. Animal instincts.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

Isn't the Hive Mind shown as feeling hate for the Farseer at the end of Vaeldor?

**Lance845**

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Isn't the Hive Mind shown as feeling hate for the Farseer at the end of Vaeldor?

How would someone even get that information?

**Cream Tea**

Lance845 wrote:

More importantly, even if the Nids collectively are sapient, they do not consider other life forms to be.

Other species are nothing more than indigestion while they devour worlds. Clever indigestion is still just indigestion.

The Enders Game series has a series of classifications of foreignness. http://enderverse.wikia.com/wiki/Hierarchy_of_Foreignness

I am sure the Nids would consider everyone else Varelse at best and Djur most of the time.

Huh, what's with the Swedish words?

Also, I don't think Tyranids would consider anything other than themselves as worthy of consideration. Not even a rival Tyranid hive mind. They probably only judge threat levels and nutritional value.

**Xenomancers**

I change my vote to tau. Tau seem like good chaps.

**Champion of Slaanesh**

The followers of Tzeench (especially my tzeench renegade chapter) are perfectly good guys
They will happily "save" worlds and forge worlds the imperium has carelessly neglected.

**Goobi2**

That's true... Tzeentch does always have spare change for those he see's in need.

**RedCommander**

Goobi2 wrote:
That's true... Tzeentch does always have spare change for those he see's in need.

Man, I wouldn't accept even spare change from that giant nerd. Much less the change you are talking about.

**Robin5t**

The Exodites.

They generally just want to be left alone to raise their dinosaurs and not do the things that destroyed a galactic hyperpower and birthed a chaos god.

You can't argue with that

**TheManWithNoPlan**

I'm sure there's a golden retriever (or their one of their distant descendants) that's a very good boy.

**Ynneadwraith**

Robin5t wrote:
The Exodites.

They generally just want to be left alone to raise their dinosaurs and not do the things that destroyed a galactic hyperpower and birthed a chaos god.

You can't argue with that

Mine certainly aren't (and i've always thought the whole pacifist thing was ill-fitting with the 40k universe at large).

In the main, exodites were religious fanatics opposed to the excesses of the pleasure cults. Mine, for instance, were followers of Kurnous.

As such, it's the Hunt which they venerate. Ork, human, eldar. All are prey before the hunter god.