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Id love to have seen how he played this, virtually no long range fire. I guess we’re assuming no vehicles at the moment so might as well go full infantry counter.
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone catch the spikey bits rumours for Imp knight point reductions? Some talk of trying to make Armigers not suck. Not sure that helps Admech much but a boon is a boon
For giggles compare an imperial knight crusader to a shadowsword. The crusader has like half the mathhammer firepower and threatens heavy things dramatically less for the same points.
But the Shadowsword, ironically, does not have a sword. Or feet.
Anyhow, if they get the points for a minimum Crusader down to around 450, I would seriously consider one.
The Crusader doesn't have a sword either. Still, I consider it a bit spurious because it's like comparing a hurricane bolter to a lascannon and then saying the lascannon kills tanks better.
The Crusader gets 12+3d6+2d3 shots, for a total of 17-36, with an average of 26.5 shots.
The Shadowsword gets 9-15, with an average of 12. So I would hope it's better at killing larger targets, because it's considerably worse (less than half as good) at killing hordes.
The shadowsword has 30 heavy bolter shots a turn that can shoot into combat. Knights need a lot of help.
Id love to have seen how he played this, virtually no long range fire. I guess we’re assuming no vehicles at the moment so might as well go full infantry counter.
I am not seeing why he brings the astra militarum section that he does. Why bring the valkyrie? That thing could be 3x5 scouts and 4CP. Fulgurites and Smash captains love CP. I can't see how that valkyrie thing could possibly do the damage that his melee guys could do with some more CP. His snipers generate 6 arquebus and 6 bolter equivalent 3+ shots per turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 23:18:29
He uses the Valkyrie to charge turn 1 into a super shooty unit if needed. Sniper bases can deepstrike and take up a lot of board space for really cheep. List is not amazing, I’ve played him plenty of times and you just have to stand your ground as he is more of a bully player and can play “loose” some would say so have to watch him. He has never beaten me yet so I can’t complain.
So GW is changing their GT format to 1750 points? What are your opinions on AdMech at a lower point level? Would our lists change drastically?
It's a mixed bag. On the plus side, our units are much stronger the lower the points go because we don't have super expensive HQs and efficient large units. On the downside, we very much depend on the Soup to shore up our weaknesses. Lower points hurts that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
IVIOOSE wrote: He uses the Valkyrie to charge turn 1 into a super shooty unit if needed. Sniper bases can deepstrike and take up a lot of board space for really cheep. List is not amazing, I’ve played him plenty of times and you just have to stand your ground as he is more of a bully player and can play “loose” some would say so have to watch him. He has never beaten me yet so I can’t complain.
Ah. Yeah. Seems really hit or miss if you don't blow the enemy out on turn one. Would not be my preference for a tourney list...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/18 21:37:49
So GW is changing their GT format to 1750 points? What are your opinions on AdMech at a lower point level? Would our lists change drastically?
It's a mixed bag. On the plus side, our units are much stronger the lower the points go because we don't have super expensive HQs and efficient large units. On the downside, we very much depend on the Soup to shore up our weaknesses. Lower points hurts that.
So how would you adjust your list for a 1750 points?
Ideasweasel wrote:Well i hope you win but in a way you already deserve a medal. 14 dragoon boxes purchased, assembled, and painted.
A Blood Angels Captain with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, as well the Angel Wing relic jumppack. AKA Slamguinius or Captain Slam.
I personally dislike calling him Captain Smash because Captain Smash will always ever be an Iron Hands Captain on a Bike with a Thunder Hammer and the Shield Eternal.
A Blood Angels Captain with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, as well the Angel Wing relic jumppack. AKA Slamguinius or Captain Slam.
I personally dislike calling him Captain Smash because Captain Smash will always ever be an Iron Hands Captain on a Bike with a Thunder Hammer and the Shield Eternal.
what makes him so strong? are there specific BLANGELS stratagems to use with him?
A Blood Angels Captain with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, as well the Angel Wing relic jumppack. AKA Slamguinius or Captain Slam.
I personally dislike calling him Captain Smash because Captain Smash will always ever be an Iron Hands Captain on a Bike with a Thunder Hammer and the Shield Eternal.
what makes him so strong? are there specific BLANGELS stratagems to use with him?
The Mechanicus aligned houses don't seem to have any particular synergy with Knight of the Cog, though that might change if some of the strats and relics replicate other factions traits (which was true for us and Tau at the very least).
But that combined with the fact Mortan and Griffiths have very similar powers, makes me think we're going to see some big things from the strats (*fingers crossed).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 19:27:44
Really? Don't we need the Questor Mechanicus keyword to interact? Otherwise, we have to use the Imperium keyword. I mean, forget Knight of the Cog or repairs for a moment. Machine Spirit Resurgent is clearly the most important stratagem we have for Knights.
Raven: When they make Advance moves, treat Heavy weapons as Assault weapons.
Taranis: 6+ FNP against Mortal Wounds.
Krast: RR hits when charging, charged, or via Heroic Intervention against TITAN keyword
Vulker: Rerolls 1’s when targeting the closest enemy unit during the shooting phase.
So... Vulker for Crusaders, it seems. That or Raven; we still get-1 to hit without any rerolls though. Maybe Taranis, but I think plenty of non-mortal wounds is just as threatening to us.
Suzuteo wrote: Really? Don't we need the Questor Mechanicus keyword to do some of those things? Otherwise, we have to use the Imperium keyword.
Raven: When they make Advance moves, treat Heavy weapons as Assault weapons.
Taranis: 6+ FNP against Mortal Wounds.
Krast: RR hits when charging, charged, or via Heroic Intervention against TITAN keyword
Vulker: Rerolls 1’s when targeting the closest enemy unit during the shooting phase.
So... Vulker for Crusaders, it seems. That or Raven; we still get-1 to hit without any rerolls though. Maybe Taranis, but I think plenty of non-mortal wounds is just as threatening to us.
New article:When they make Advance moves, treat Heavy weapons as Assault weapons.
Old article: Raven advance & shoot with no penaly, heavy weap become assault type.
The new one is probably right because the old one seems to indicate house raven could advance and fire heavy weapons with no penalties.But who knows?
EDIT: From bolter and chainsword "Martin and Robin Cruddace live on Warhammer TV just confirmed the Imperial Knights is the next Codex and due very, very soon!
Possibly Pre order next weekend"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/19 19:51:27
Well Vulker and Raven seem to be the good ones for admech. But the alternate armiger model helliger/helverin sounds to me like they would have flamers. Advancing with flamers on a already speedy model might actually be really useful. It might come down to the unique stratagems for me or possibly freeblades if they implement those in a fun way.
If the knight codex can get us some solid CC units or good cheap anti horde models that would really help us out. Advancing armigers or helligers with solid melee or heavy duty flamers would make great distraction carnifexes.
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone heard the rumours of 60p armiger and 45 point knight reductions. Not massive but is it enough to get anyone to use any?
Also did Josh Death get 10th place in that tournament?
60pt reduction on the Armigers would at least let me consider it. Not sure if it's good at that price but at least then I don't feel like I'm actively handicapping myself. I've tried running them in casual games and at the price they come in now it's really rough even if you're trying to intentionally tone your list down.
The speed they have is very surprising, if they get a decent way to fight hordes in combat or shooting and perhaps a more useful carapace weapons I could see them having some legs. They really need something like a heavy phosphor gun like the onager and Kastellans can carry instead of a heavy stubber or melta gun. It feels like they're missing a special rule or something honestly, they really don't seem to work how they're intended to other than being stupid fast.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone heard the rumours of 60p armiger and 45 point knight reductions. Not massive but is it enough to get anyone to use any?
Also did Josh Death get 10th place in that tournament?
60pt reduction on the Armigers would at least let me consider it. Not sure if it's good at that price but at least then I don't feel like I'm actively handicapping myself. I've tried running them in casual games and at the price they come in now it's really rough even if you're trying to intentionally tone your list down.
The speed they have is very surprising, if they get a decent way to fight hordes in combat or shooting and perhaps a more useful carapace weapons I could see them having some legs. They really need something like a heavy phosphor gun like the onager and Kastellans can carry instead of a heavy stubber or melta gun. It feels like they're missing a special rule or something honestly, they really don't seem to work how they're intended to other than being stupid fast.
I have visions of a walker army with some of them and lots of dragoons and ballistari. Would look ace but probably wouldn’t do very well
Ideasweasel wrote: Anyone heard the rumours of 60p armiger and 45 point knight reductions. Not massive but is it enough to get anyone to use any?
Also did Josh Death get 10th place in that tournament?
60pt reduction on the Armigers would at least let me consider it. Not sure if it's good at that price but at least then I don't feel like I'm actively handicapping myself. I've tried running them in casual games and at the price they come in now it's really rough even if you're trying to intentionally tone your list down.
The speed they have is very surprising, if they get a decent way to fight hordes in combat or shooting and perhaps a more useful carapace weapons I could see them having some legs. They really need something like a heavy phosphor gun like the onager and Kastellans can carry instead of a heavy stubber or melta gun. It feels like they're missing a special rule or something honestly, they really don't seem to work how they're intended to other than being stupid fast.
I have visions of a walker army with some of them and lots of dragoons and ballistari. Would look ace but probably wouldn’t do very well
Depends entirely on how much the new weapons cost. But 65 points off makes Armigers viable as a mobile tank. 45 points off the Knight is also nice; it's a free Stormspear. I actually hoped for just making Reapers free and 25 points off the base Knight, since Feet are too strong, but I'll take it.
Would not be surprised if Death got 10th place. That list does not seem consistent enough for a major tourney.
As for Armiger weapons, I would be happy with a super-heavy pistol flamer. Haha.
I used to run a walker-heavy army in the Index days. Depending on the changes, I think we can run it again, actually. But the biggest problem is that even with the point reductions, we have very few leftover points to play around with. And it's readily apparent that I would not have much use for Lance Armigers, since my Knight, Dragoons, and Ballistarii all handle vehicles plenty well on their own. I actually would need anti-infantry more than anything. So maybe Flamer Armigers or the ever-flexible Icarus Crawlers.
Here's a base list:
Spoiler:
MT Battalion Detachment - 193
HQ - 60 1x Company Commander - Laspistol, Chainsword, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Relic: Kurov's Aquila
1x Company Commander - Laspistol, Chainsword
6k 
6k
3k 
1k 
