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Chaos gets a ton of support too.

The Order support makes sense to me, though. Overwhelming Order victory in 2016 global campaign + multiple Destruction releases at the time & a new Death battletome + announcement that the next five years productions have been planned out after campaign = massive Order focus for the next few years.

Likely Order will be winding down now(as they've even said with aelves)but it does make sense GW want to go strong where the popularity is and that's Order/chaos.

As for rules, meh, if a change-up is in that big a demand then we will see the result with the AoS 2.0 rule changes.

I don’t think anyone at my store has Stormcast. I have the full pantheon of Chaos gods (minus rats), one guy has Bretonnia and Fyreslayers, another has DoK, another has rats, two guys have death, and one of those two also has orruks. That’s what I know of. And my friend’s store back home only has a single guy with Stormcast.
My wife collects Stormcast, Sylvaneth and is going to start DoK, but if she decides to play, she’d be the first one using SE.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Oh yeah, the initiative is a horrible HORRIBLE rule, its gotten to the point were we house rule, that you dont roll of initiative on turns one and two. just because for example as a tzeentzch player if i go second and get a double turn, its almost a garunteed win for me at that point. Because by then they have already gotten in range of me and i have deleted at least a fourth if not more of their army with out mine being touched because i dont move in the first turn.

Exactly. I recently lost a game of Knife To The Heart against Tzeentch due to losing the initiative roll. And I was actually in a position to win by turn 2. It just feels cheap, having everything come down to a single dice roll like that.

Exactly another issue which I hope gets addressed is the importance of objctives, because currently, majoirty of the missions you can ignore them and go for table.

Going for the table is pretty much what everyone I know does and yes it makes objective mostly useless.

The only time I was beat by objectives was when I went against a ScE player who was running g the vanguard guys on gryph hounds that vanished off the board and popped up on back lines and capped my objectives. Other then that, never even bothered with them. AoS until fixed is about pushing your guys into the middle and brawling

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The only time I was beat by objectives was when I went against a ScE player who was running g the vanguard guys on gryph hounds that vanished off the board and popped up on back lines and capped my objectives. Other then that, never even bothered with them. AoS until fixed is about pushing your guys into the middle and brawling

Actually, my current Tzeentch list involves castling up, playing defense for the big casters while my opponent is forced to come to me, and then a big old Bloodthirster spawns in their back yard, ready to murderize anything in his way. Backfield campers? Poof. Lone heroes? Splat. Yup. I’m happy with it.

What would you guys change to draw the focus away from simply tabling the enemy?

I actually prefer kill points over objectives. I don’t mind “tabling”.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The only time I was beat by objectives was when I went against a ScE player who was running g the vanguard guys on gryph hounds that vanished off the board and popped up on back lines and capped my objectives. Other then that, never even bothered with them. AoS until fixed is about pushing your guys into the middle and brawling

Actually, my current Tzeentch list involves castling up, playing defense for the big casters while my opponent is forced to come to me, and then a big old Bloodthirster spawns in their back yard, ready to murderize anything in his way. Backfield campers? Poof. Lone heroes? Splat. Yup. I’m happy with it.

That's what my army is, my hammer is a LoC gaunt summoner, chaos sorcerer lord on manticore, and a cursling ( might change get him out) and then my anvil is chaos warriors and a chrinw buffing them. They run into the wall of chaos warriors and just get stuck as I toss spells at them and just bleed them dry over the game. Horde units get deleted via the gaunt summoner, and I eat elites with infernal gateway from the LoC and the warriors themselfs dish out lots of attacks

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What would you guys change to draw the focus away from simply tabling the enemy?

Depends on the army but you hear some pretty fun stories by people going mobile objective takers or hordish like with skeletons that swarm their marks while tying up the enemy with fodder.

Otherwise all I can think is narrative and battleplans so it's not a regular game.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
The only time I was beat by objectives was when I went against a ScE player who was running g the vanguard guys on gryph hounds that vanished off the board and popped up on back lines and capped my objectives. Other then that, never even bothered with them. AoS until fixed is about pushing your guys into the middle and brawling

Actually, my current Tzeentch list involves castling up, playing defense for the big casters while my opponent is forced to come to me, and then a big old Bloodthirster spawns in their back yard, ready to murderize anything in his way. Backfield campers? Poof. Lone heroes? Splat. Yup. I’m happy with it.

That's what my army is, my hammer is a LoC gaunt summoner, chaos sorcerer lord on manticore, and a cursling ( might change get him out) and then my anvil is chaos warriors and a chrinw buffing them. They run into the wall of chaos warriors and just get stuck as I toss spells at them and just bleed them dry over the game. Horde units get deleted via the gaunt summoner, and I eat elites with infernal gateway from the LoC and the warriors themselfs dish out lots of attacks

The Gaunt makes an awesome hammer, and he is one of mine. The second is the summoned Bloodthirster; I use a basic one because Destiny Dice can't be used on non-Tzeentch models, so the whip pulls in a juicy target to mulch, almost guaranteeing a charge. I actually have marauders as the anvil, because I can throw so many bodies there (currently 2 40 man blocks for 80 bodies that have to get chewed through). I actually also use Kairos! Since he can borrow his allies spells, he can refill my destiny dice pool, force one die (mine or an opponent's) to a facing of my choice, and generally be a nuisance. The second LoC is the general for the +1 to cast, and I'm rounding it out with 40 Horrors. I'm considering going to 60 horrors, dropping 40 marauders, and having 80 points left to summon brimstone speedbumps (It'll end up being the same # of bodies, but increase the usefulness of the horrors and summoned speedbumps are obnoxious; plus I don't have to buy another 30 marauders this way; only own 50). The horrors can cast, shoot, and add to the castle around the three big casters, while the BT grinds the enemy up against them. Had a friend try the list out (he's incredibly competitive) and he decimated the opponent. He said he barely lost any marauders; the damage output is just so incredibly high.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
What would you guys change to draw the focus away from simply tabling the enemy?

Missions that let you score points from objectives and that don't give a win condition for tabling, so if you get tabled but scored more than your opponent who wasted turns trying to table you instead of scoring, he'd still lose.

I don't find the two can coexist. Either the mission is a kill point mission or its not. If you try to do both, the objective part will usually always be ignored in favor of powergaming a sledge hammer force that will table its opponents.

As matched play is 99% the norm though you'd be playing "not real aos" which is an uphill battle to fight.

I run 40 chaos warriors in 2 ranks, one with sword and board, the one behind them with halbards, so anything charging gthe first row gets hit by the sword and board while also getting poked by the halbards. Then the shrine buffs the front row.

Would my front row has a 3+ rerollqble 5++ and a 6+++ so once something makes the mistake of charging into them, they never leave combat.

Almost every game I've ever played has been won by objectives. I just assumed this was the norm. The only exceptions have been matches that were tied on points, or games where we specifically played without using missions. I'm legitimately surprised to hear people complaining about getting tabled in AoS. This really explains why your experience of the game has seemed so different from mine, Auticus.

Yeah different communities and play groups, different parameters, different results.

My community is half casual and then half people that like clubbing baby seals with netlists, so it makes for an interesting dynamic that can cause a lot of strife.

I'd rather make a list that is so stupidly strong that it BECOMES a net-list as people steal it; as opposed to borrowing somebody else's list. Part of my fun is coming up with nasty combos and putting them on the table. But I want to put the thought process effort in. I don't want somebody else to do the work. I do like seeing my list in the hands of others though; I like to see how other people do with stuff I've come up with.

I lost friends over 60-wound Archaon with four layers of saves supported by a Tzeentch Daemon Prince and Fatemaster with 0+ save.

60 wound Archaon?? How?!

 timetowaste85 wrote:
60 wound Archaon?? How?!

The long and short is tzeentzch warp gakary. You take a max squad of brimsand one pink with a banner give archeon the tzeentzch spell that on a 2 up he passes the wound off into one of them, they get a save, you then use a destany die to auto roll a one for them and get d6 back. It's pretty much the only way yo run archeon. You can make it even funnier I'd you take a chaos lord on mount of slaanehs and use his and ability on archeon to attack twice with him

 EnTyme wrote:
Almost every game I've ever played has been won by objectives. I just assumed this was the norm. The only exceptions have been matches that were tied on points, or games where we specifically played without using missions. I'm legitimately surprised to hear people complaining about getting tabled in AoS. This really explains why your experience of the game has seemed so different from mine, Auticus.

I can honestly say I have never seen a game be won by objectives, It has always been one force or the other wiped out.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
60 wound Archaon?? How?!

Keep a 20-man squad of Chaos Warriors near him and use the Tzeentch spell to pawn wounds off over to them. It's not a super strong list, but it is frustrating as hell to play against, and it forces your opponent to play objectives, because there is really no reasonable way you can expect to kill Archaon unless you have a way to just delete a model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
Almost every game I've ever played has been won by objectives. I just assumed this was the norm. The only exceptions have been matches that were tied on points, or games where we specifically played without using missions. I'm legitimately surprised to hear people complaining about getting tabled in AoS. This really explains why your experience of the game has seemed so different from mine, Auticus.

I can honestly say I have never seen a game be won by objectives, It has always been one force or the other wiped out.

Difference in local metas, I guess.

I’ve repeatedly suffered the indignity of being both tabled and losing on objectives.

We play the ghb up to a tee. If you get tabled but had an edge in pints you win.

Has mattered plenty of times.

I'm wondering if some of the posters here are considering a tabling to be an automatic win. Per the rules, it's not.

Depends on the mission you are playing. A great many missions state that if at any time a player has no models remaining that the game is over and a major victory for their opponent. There are a few missions that are objective based only though the acceptance of playing those will depend on your play group. I strive for my events to use a mix of the two.

 auticus wrote:
Depends on the mission you are playing. A great many missions state that if at any time a player has no models remaining that the game is over and a major victory for their opponent. There are a few missions that are objective based only though the acceptance of playing those will depend on your play group. I strive for my events to use a mix of the two.

None of the Pitched Battles allow for: "tabling = win" (in fact they outright tell you to ignore the "victory conditions" section in the 4-pager ruleset. IMO if people are worried about the game turning into a mosh pit they should sitck to the book when it comes to "balanced" scenarios. Those work fairly fine.

I'm frankly thinking of getting rid of my AoS stuff. The localish group is stating 40k escalation and Necromunda is in full swing. There are some AoS players (4-6) but only a couple of us actually play the FGS. Since new 40k scratches much of the same itch---based on a very AoS rule set---I am fine with picking up with 40k and Necromunda and running.

I think the forum activity speaks volumes. There are threads from a month ago still on the first page.

I remember when posts couldn't stay on the first page for a day!

It's sad.

Warhammer fantasy had the same problem. On every forum I ever visited. I remember when Portent (before warseer was warseer) moved fantasy to the top to try to generate more traffic since it was being smothered by 40k and this was back in the glory 6th and 7th edition days of whfb.