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Don't get me wrong, we can't all have super awesome traits like Blood Angles, Salamanders or Raven Guard, and ignoring cover is far from useless. But I gotta say I never got the +1 to wound on structures, do people ever really use that much? I know they have bastions as their own thing and I'm sure it gets a lot more usage in narrative play, but bonuses to damage structures is one of those perks that seems so niche its almost a slap in the face. Me personally I got into this game 15 years ago for the first time and just love the Imperial Fists. Anyone with stones big enough to wear bright yellow into battle has to be pretty bad ass, and they were my boys. Still like them, just find their Chapter Trait a bit meh. Also, can someone explain to me how the Warlord ability works? I've reread it a bunch of times and it frankly just doesn't make any sense to me. Being the only named Character in the chapter Lysander is stuck with it and he can't even use it as far as I can tell, and if you aren't using Lysander I can't imagine anyone willingly picking that warlord ability over several of the generic ones. Anyways, just asking if anyone else feels the same.

It depends on the meta.

Some day in the future, fortifications might become the Next Big OP Game Thingy.

Sounds absurd to me, but so does "IG Conscripts, Mortars, and Infantry Squads are OP."

You never know where the game is going to take you, and if buildings become the meta, IF become the meta-breakers.

Ask this of someone who plays Hive Fleet: Jormungandr.

But yes outside of a few isolated use cases Imperial Fists did not get a good chapter tactic.

Any army that can take "-1 to hit" automatically takes that, barring some insane force multiplier in a different faction.

If Imperial Fists were changed to have dark reaper-esque rules where they never suffered penalties to hit targets that were receiving the benefit of cover, that would be a wholly different story.

The reroll to wound against buildings is pretty useless. The ignore the benefits of cover can be useless or very strong depending on opponent.

I like to think you take the totality of the chapter into consideration.

Bolter Drill with Primaris is pretty great, +2 cover against AP1 seems alright, and the pistol is ok. Cover removal is also not terrible.

On the UM side their stratagem is mostly never used, because it's redundant. Their WL trait is awesome and the CT is good, but they have no specific relic (not that it's incredibly important).

I do think that their Chapter trait (and consequently the Iron Warriors mirror of it) are growing in usefulness. Ignoring cover is getting better as we see more codices, as Marmatag pointed out, Jormungundr, with the arrival of the Daemons codex, Feculant Gnarlmaws, AM psychic power that adds to cover saves. I still don't think it's as generally useful as -1 to hit (yet), but it's working it's way up the usefulness ladder.

I think ignoring cover is hot. I think its better than the BA chapter tactic, actually.

Ignore cover can be cash money at times.

rerolls against buildings.... ehhh not so much.

I don't think the IF tactic is very good either. It seems they got the short end of the stick with it. I don't recall their relic being that great either?

If you want bad CT try Black Templars. A weak melee buff in an army with at best one okayish melee unit. Woop.

DA's inner circle rule allows you rerolls against fallen. I don't think fallens are ever going to be a thing.

At least fortifications are useful when used right.

You have to design your list to take advantage of it. All in all it does not seem all that great to me.

 skchsan wrote:
DA's inner circle rule allows you rerolls against fallen. I don't think fallens are ever going to be a thing.

Seems like a nice rule for narrative players to me, like Eldar with Slaanesh. Do they get other stuff or is that it (don't have the DA book)?

Dai wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
DA's inner circle rule allows you rerolls against fallen. I don't think fallens are ever going to be a thing.

Seems like a nice rule for narrative players to me, like Eldar with Slaanesh. Do they get other stuff or is that it (don't have the DA book)?

Has auto-pass morale. It's one of the pseudo-chapter tactics along with jink.

Also have actual chapter tactic called grim resolve which let's you reroll 1's in shooting phase if the unit didn't move.

 Primark G wrote:
You have to design your list to take advantage of it. All in all it does not seem all that great to me.

What you mean? besides bolter drill ignore cover works 100% of the time every time some one is in cover. and it doesn't matter what weapon you are shooting.

Fists should have gotten +1 to hit with Bolt weapons AND ignores cover, not this building nonsense, thats Iron Warriors territory

 Formosa wrote:
Fists should have gotten +1 to hit with Bolt weapons AND ignores cover, not this building nonsense, thats Iron Warriors territory

Alternatively bolster this toaster where if they stand still in cover for a turn they get +1 to cover would of been funny. (though that is kinda their special wlt)

I wish IF would have gotten a good unit like reaper launchers.

 Primark G wrote:
I wish IF would have gotten a good unit like reaper launchers.

No thanks. id rather not have to sit there listening to complaints about broken cheese marines.

Yes they did not time, it's so irrelevant my friend forgets it most games.

So what should they have gotten instead?

I'm thinking something like...

Stand Your Ground: If an <IMPERIAL FISTS> infantry unit does not move, it gains a +1 bonus To Wound in shooting attacks OR melee attacks during its turn. This does not apply to Overwatch shooting or melee attacks made during the opponent's turn.

Not as bad as the close combat focused ones.

Re-roll 1's on saves in cover.
Cheap fortifications.
Bolster defences like the old techmarines.
(some of this could have been stratagems)

IW should have had different legion traits more reflective of them being the siege attacker.


But hey... geederps. Boring copy-paste edition.

Yeah IW got screwed more it does not suit them at all.

You could say they got...



...Imperially Fisted.

Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is pretty much just +1 LD., unless you play the rare CC army, and then survive being charged. White Scars, BT and IH all got pretty bad ones too.

I dont begrudge the Raven Guard being good though, they spent over a decade being awful.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is pretty much just +1 LD., unless you play the rare CC army, and then survive being charged. White Scars, BT and IH all got pretty bad ones too.

I dont begrudge the Raven Guard being good though, they spent over a decade being awful.

What were the old Raven Guard Chapter Traits? I've been out of it for over a decade so I guess I missed the misery

 Porphyrius wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is pretty much just +1 LD., unless you play the rare CC army, and then survive being charged. White Scars, BT and IH all got pretty bad ones too.

I dont begrudge the Raven Guard being good though, they spent over a decade being awful.

What were the old Raven Guard Chapter Traits? I've been out of it for over a decade so I guess I missed the misery

7th edition:
Chapter Tactics: Non-vehicle models that do not begin the game in a Transport vehicle get Shrouded on the first turn. Plus, when rolling for Night Fighting, you can add +1 to the roll if your army contains at least one Raven Guard unit. Jump units can use their packs for movement AND assault, and ALL Raven Guard units may reroll To-Wound rolls on their HoW attacks.

It is pretty useful, it is just that some other tactics are better.

It is bad game design though. Trait that just completely bypasses an important game mechanic is not fun. Terrain in this edition matters too little already.

I don't think it's bad. Definitely not the best, but certainly not the worst either. With -1 AP and ignoring cover, intercessors can generally outshoot other troops. And bolter drill synergizes really well with Inceptors and Aggressors.

The fortifications piece seems pretty meh right now, but they have been steadily releasing new fortification rules. Who knows? Maybe fortifications will become more prevalent in lists. That's really the unseen benefit of the trait. As new cover and fortification rules are released, this tactic becomes more and more valuable. It scales favorably as the edition grows.

That's my take anyway.