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Hello, fellow conscripts!

So I've just ordered the Imperial Guard codex from my local store, but I'm way to excited to wait!! I want a gunline army, and need a few requirements met for my Russ tank weapons:

Anti-Infantry weapons- Strength 5-7, -1 to -3 AP, 1 or 2 Damage
Anti-Tank/creature- 8+ Strength, -2 to -5 AP, minimum D3 Damage but preferably D6

So I obviously need a Punisher Cannon for the turret,and Pask for the anti-infantry loadout, but what sponson weapons would be best for anti infantry? Heavy bolter for the hull weapon, I assume? (I don't know what hull weapons there are.

I'm completely lost for an anti tank/creature loadout. What weapons would meet the requirements? What turret and sponsons? And if you disagree or would recommend anything else for gunline tanks, please share! Thank you and may the Emperor guide and protect you!

Anti Infantry: Punisher Gatling, Hull Heavy Bolter , Sponson heavy Bolters if you're feeling cheeky.

Anti Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons.

Bring Pask with Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons and order himself to re-roll 1's.

So I don't stick Pask in the Punisher? Doesn't he Shrek in them?

So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

4 plasma shots for what 40 points? It is a pretty good deal.

A Necron Warrior wrote:
So I don't stick Pask in the Punisher? Doesn't he Shrek in them?

Yeah the Punisher is another good option for pask if you want to go full anti-hoard. I just think the BS2+ has better value on low shot high damage weapons like the Battlecannon or Lascannon, while a high volume weapon would be best suited to an ordered regular Leman Russ.

Executioners don't seem worth it due to lower range, and the difference in points with plasma is not that much.

I'd have to move a lot to make the Executioners worth it, and I want to camp with a gunline to maximize shots, keep a good meat shield, and keep auras. Anyone disagree?

 mew28 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

4 plasma shots for what 40 points? It is a pretty good deal.

Not really. It costs twice the cost of a heavy bolter, and performs identical to it against infantry, twice as well against tanks. You can run plasmacannons if you like them; I don't, I feel that while it is added goodness, it's unnecessary added goodness, and therefore unnecessary extra cost.

I prefer my tanks [and my everything] to be a cheap as possible while still being functional in their envisioned capacity.

A Necron Warrior wrote:
Executioners don't seem worth it due to lower range, and the difference in points with plasma is not that much.

I'd have to move a lot to make the Executioners worth it, and I want to camp with a gunline to maximize shots, keep a good meat shield, and keep auras. Anyone disagree?

I don't disagree, but you do get +1AP.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Spoiler:

 mew28 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

4 plasma shots for what 40 points? It is a pretty good deal.

Not really. It costs twice the cost of a heavy bolter, and performs identical to it against infantry, twice as well against tanks. You can run plasmacannons if you like them; I don't, I feel that while it is added goodness, it's unnecessary added goodness, and therefore unnecessary extra cost.

A Necron Warrior wrote:
So I don't stick Pask in the Punisher? Doesn't he Shrek in them?

I think it is better to keep Pask away from the enemy and keep shooting whenever possible. All Leman Russ don't want to be charged in combat even if the charger cannot kill it outright.

So if Pask is charged, his awesome shooting ability (compare to other LR tanks) is neutralized for at least 1-2 turns. In that sense, you might want to give him an Battle Cannon and stay at the backfield to keep shooting instead of having punisher cannon standing at the front which means after he "likely" killed one brood of Genestealers he got charged and tied up by the second brood.

Nice. And I agree, Plasma Weapons are worth it- and Russes are already cheap compared to other vehicles. Plasma would he intended for tank hunting and big creatures.

A Necron Warrior wrote:Nice. And I agree, Plasma Weapons are worth it- and Russes are already cheap compared to other vehicles. Plasma would he intended for tank hunting and big creatures.

No, they're not. They're already over the 200 point mark before you add sponsons. Sponsons just make them sickeningly expensive.

mew28 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
[spoiler]

 mew28 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

4 plasma shots for what 40 points? It is a pretty good deal.

Not really. It costs twice the cost of a heavy bolter, and performs identical to it against infantry, twice as well against tanks. You can run plasmacannons if you like them; I don't, I feel that while it is added goodness, it's unnecessary added goodness, and therefore unnecessary extra cost.

10 points for a 3+ plazma shot is a steal I don't think you can find that kind of a deal on firepower anywhere else really. HB are better at killing infantry however infantry dies to las guns so you don't need to use the tanks to kill it so I don't see the need to stick on on the tank.

7.5 points for a 3+ plasma shot, which is a point more than Scions and Veterans pay for their plasma.

Again, you can take plasma cannons on TC's, it's better than taking Multimeltas or Heavy Flamers by a massive margin, but I don't think they're close to worth it.


However, it's also 7.5 points for a 4+ plasma shot on a non-TC Leman Russ, which is a full double of Guardsmen pay for theirs, so you should definitely be avoiding it on anything but TC's.

So you recommend keeping the Russ with A battle cannon and heavy bolters for tank hunting?

A Necron Warrior wrote:
So you recommend keeping the Russ with A battle cannon and heavy bolters for tank hunting?

Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolters. That's how I run mine.

I also run Manticores and Basilisks and a Shadowsword, though.

What is TC?

A Necron Warrior wrote:
What is TC?

Tank Commander. The HQ Leman Russ.

If you're bringing anything but a Punisher, it has to be a TC [or at least be expecting to reliably receive orders from one during the first few turns], because regular Leman Russ tanks leave much to be desired.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

A Necron Warrior wrote:Nice. And I agree, Plasma Weapons are worth it- and Russes are already cheap compared to other vehicles. Plasma would he intended for tank hunting and big creatures.

No, they're not. They're already over the 200 point mark before you add sponsons. Sponsons just make them sickeningly expensive.

mew28 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
[spoiler]

 mew28 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

4 plasma shots for what 40 points? It is a pretty good deal.

Not really. It costs twice the cost of a heavy bolter, and performs identical to it against infantry, twice as well against tanks. You can run plasmacannons if you like them; I don't, I feel that while it is added goodness, it's unnecessary added goodness, and therefore unnecessary extra cost.

10 points for a 3+ plazma shot is a steal I don't think you can find that kind of a deal on firepower anywhere else really. HB are better at killing infantry however infantry dies to las guns so you don't need to use the tanks to kill it so I don't see the need to stick on on the tank.

7.5 points for a 3+ plasma shot, which is a point more than Scions and Veterans pay for their plasma.

Again, you can take plasma cannons on TC's, it's better than taking Multimeltas or Heavy Flamers by a massive margin, but I don't think they're close to worth it.


However, it's also 7.5 points for a 4+ plasma shot on a non-TC Leman Russ, which is a full double of Guardsmen pay for theirs, so you should definitely be avoiding it on anything but TC's.

You forgot to add in the body of the model carrying the plaz gun.

 mew28 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

A Necron Warrior wrote:Nice. And I agree, Plasma Weapons are worth it- and Russes are already cheap compared to other vehicles. Plasma would he intended for tank hunting and big creatures.

No, they're not. They're already over the 200 point mark before you add sponsons. Sponsons just make them sickeningly expensive.

mew28 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
[spoiler]

 mew28 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

4 plasma shots for what 40 points? It is a pretty good deal.

Not really. It costs twice the cost of a heavy bolter, and performs identical to it against infantry, twice as well against tanks. You can run plasmacannons if you like them; I don't, I feel that while it is added goodness, it's unnecessary added goodness, and therefore unnecessary extra cost.

10 points for a 3+ plazma shot is a steal I don't think you can find that kind of a deal on firepower anywhere else really. HB are better at killing infantry however infantry dies to las guns so you don't need to use the tanks to kill it so I don't see the need to stick on on the tank.

7.5 points for a 3+ plasma shot, which is a point more than Scions and Veterans pay for their plasma.

Again, you can take plasma cannons on TC's, it's better than taking Multimeltas or Heavy Flamers by a massive margin, but I don't think they're close to worth it.


However, it's also 7.5 points for a 4+ plasma shot on a non-TC Leman Russ, which is a full double of Guardsmen pay for theirs, so you should definitely be avoiding it on anything but TC's.

You forgot to add in the body of the model carrying the plaz gun.

The guy costs 4(40) points, 6(60) points, or 9(50) points w/ Deep Strike. The tank costs 166 points or 211 points.

If I'm taking a unit that costs more than 200 points, it better be worth those 200 points, and I'm going to give it the minimum possible remaining upgrades to make it all that it needs to be.

Yeah, sure, it's a fair discount on plasma, but the tank doesn't need the plasma to be fine and the plasma isn't going to make the tank amazing, so don't spend the points on it. That's the way I see it. Buy a unit what it needs, and nothing more.

What about Demolisher cannons with multi melta sponsons as anti tank? I don't know much about them

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
So....

I've said this before, but it is my not-so-humble opinion that the only sponson worth equipping is heavy bolters. Plasmacannons are your other option, but I don't like them, I think they bring the cost of the vehicle unacceptably high and don't offer a whole lot.
Under the assumption that you're going to be Cadian, you're going to want to look into Battle Tanks, Executioners, and Punishers.

All of your Battle Tanks and Executioners will be Tank Commanders. You need both the re-rolled shot output, re-rolled 1's, and +1 BS to make them count. Executioners will always overcharge, so they're effective a Battle Tank with D2 instead of D1d3 and +1AP, but shorter range and dealing mortal wounds in 1-in-36 shots. Shorter range does mean you'll have to move and sacrifice your re-rolls every once in a while, which is bad, but it's also range "long enough" for most purposes.

Cadian Punishers can get along while not being tank commanders since they don't need the re-roll of shot output to maintain any semblance of effectiveness, though making them TC's still gets them +1BS and allows them to move and keep their re-roll's of 1.



Pask should be on a Battle Tank or Executioner, and he can be accompanied by a non-tank-commander Battle Tank or Executioner. He can be on a Punisher if you desire him to be on one.

I disagree precisely because I don't even think heavy bolter sponsons are worth equipping unless you're running Tallarn. That weapon is best thrown into infantry units (if you want them) because at least there it'll be affected by orders.

A Necron Warrior wrote:
What about Demolisher cannons with multi melta sponsons as anti tank? I don't know much about them

Demolishers cannons just aren't very good unfortunately. S10 is nice, but you'll generally only be getting d3 shots (because why would you take S10 gun and use it against infantry?). So you have very marginal advantage Vs T9 (which barely exists) when you factor in number of shots, but it's actually worse against T8 than a Battlecannon because that's doing d6 shots.

Interestingly the Demolisher does stack up better against Custodes... If you get the d6 shots Vs T5. But that is incredibly niche!

The fact that it's already a little behind before you factor in the increase in points and huge decrease in range compared to the Battlecannon should tell you all you need to know.

As for multimetas, I'm not a big fan of them as a weapon generally. They're too expensive for a single shot weapon at that range. Especially when you consider you really want to be moving your tank as little as possible to avoid BS penalties on your main gun.

If you're playing competitively don't run heavy bolters. They don't have a good use case.. not enough shots to be anti-infantry and not enough power to hurt anything scary.

What loadout do you recommend for an anti tank Russ?

A Necron Warrior wrote:
What loadout do you recommend for an anti tank Russ?

Battlecannon. Because it's better than all the others against almost every target, except the Punisher against infantry.

 Marmatag wrote:
If you're playing competitively don't run heavy bolters. They don't have a good use case.. not enough shots to be anti-infantry and not enough power to hurt anything scary.

It depends - if it's a commander theres no reason not to take the HB because it's cheap bs3+ shooting.

What do you say is the best anti tank sponson?

A Necron Warrior wrote:
What do you say is the best anti tank sponson?

None, or plasma. Read above for the general arguments for and against plasma sponsons, but I would say they aren't really an anti-tank gun, they're more optimised for light vehicles and heavy infantry. Whether that is good enough is up to you! But taking none and using your points elsewhere is a valid option.

As a general "all rounder" that you can stick in any force and have it be useful, I'm a fan of the classic LRBT combo sporting a battlecannon with a hull lascannonn and sponson heavy bolters. Can engage any kind of target reasonably well, can be supported effectively, is not outrageously expensive, and generally will never feel wasted or overkill.

Also if you only have one Leman Russ, it should be Pask. Even if you don't run Cadia, he's worth the 1 CP for an Auxiliary Support. 2+ BS on a Russ is nuts.

If you really don't want to run him for fantasy reasons, at least make it a Commander.

So would bolter sponson be better than no sponsons?