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Disciple of Fate wrote: Hardly, Canada hasn't involved itself in talks so far and the incoming Mexican president has already stated he wants to make changes. The US has five days to work everything out with Canada before that happens, it took over a year so far. Its unlikely to be finished quickly enough in its current form to be passed before he takes office. Don't count your ducks and all that.
Keep thinking change isn't coming. Note the date and time, and we'll check back in a year.
I'm voting for Tzeentch this year!
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Disciple of Fate wrote: Hardly, Canada hasn't involved itself in talks so far and the incoming Mexican president has already stated he wants to make changes. The US has five days to work everything out with Canada before that happens, it took over a year so far. Its unlikely to be finished quickly enough in its current form to be passed before he takes office. Don't count your ducks and all that.
Keep thinking change isn't coming. Note the date and time, and we'll check back in a year.
So if we keep it as vague as possible we can count it as change? NAFTA was change, NAFTA 2 is change, I fail to see how exactly NAFTA 2 is any better than 1, except for it being more updated to the economy a few decades later. The US hasn't even gotten Mexico to agree to the parts the US really wants yet, the general part is always the easiest. Saying change is coming is just an empty slogan unless you actually have something to back up the fact that this time the US supposedly isn't getting "ripped off".
Change itself is progress. And I know you would love to see the US fail at re-negotiating these new deals, for it to fail at facing so many at once, and for it to give into to the realization that when the world, and our so called allies, dictates to the US that this will be how things will be, that it folds and accepts it. There were some Americans posting on here some months ago ready to do that very thing. And this is a reminder that when we finally get around to doing something about something, we actually make it happen. This should have happened years ago. Now the Mexico thing is being sorted out, Canada will have to come to the realization they will have to get on board too, as they are now the odd man out. I expect everyone to put up a fight, but before long, that dream that everyone had of a steadfast united front against change, and conveniently keep the way things were, will give way to the reminder who really has the power around here when we want to use it. And that has to burn.
At some point everyone else is going to go from 'no', to how can we come out of this with some benefit. Even China.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 16:57:06
Prestor Jon wrote: There are criticisms that can be levied against McCain, he certainly wasn't a perfect person or politician but at various times in his life, during his military and political career when he found himself in situations that allowed him to show his character, he showed a level of integrity and courage that we should do a better job of demanding from all of our leaders. The systems we've put in place are too big to be changed by just one person regardless of the office or position they hold but when leaders decide to take a stand and fight the good fight we need to respect it and be willing to hold ourselves to a similar standard.
I see this moment as sort of the big split in the Republican party. This is a decent man, who has different political views than his opponent. And some of his supporters are *shocked* to hear that he doesn't think his opponent is the spawn of Satan. This was the start of the downward trend towards out current president, and the separation between the old and new republican party. I can only hope that decent people win out in the end.
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sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Hardly, Canada hasn't involved itself in talks so far and the incoming Mexican president has already stated he wants to make changes. The US has five days to work everything out with Canada before that happens, it took over a year so far. Its unlikely to be finished quickly enough in its current form to be passed before he takes office. Don't count your ducks and all that.
Keep thinking change isn't coming. Note the date and time, and we'll check back in a year.
So if we keep it as vague as possible we can count it as change? NAFTA was change, NAFTA 2 is change, I fail to see how exactly NAFTA 2 is any better than 1, except for it being more updated to the economy a few decades later. The US hasn't even gotten Mexico to agree to the parts the US really wants yet, the general part is always the easiest. Saying change is coming is just an empty slogan unless you actually have something to back up the fact that this time the US supposedly isn't getting "ripped off".
Change itself is progress. And I know you would love to see the US fail at re-negotiating these new deals, for it to fail at facing so many at once, and for it to give into to the realization that when the world, and our so called allies, dictates to the US that this will be how things will be, that it folds and accepts it. There were some Americans posting on here some months ago ready to do that very thing. And this is a reminder that when we finally get around to doing something about something, we actually make it happen. This should have happened years ago. Now the Mexico thing is being sorted out, Canada will have to come to the realization they will have to get on board too, as they are now the odd man out. I expect everyone to put up a fight, but before long, that dream that everyone had of a steadfast united front against change, and conveniently keep the way things were, will give way to the reminder who really has the power around here when we want to use it. And that has to burn.
At some point everyone else is going to go from 'no', to how can we come out of this with some benefit. Even China.
This is what I mean by empty slogan. If the US got nuked tomorrow it certainly would be change, but definitely not progress.
As for failing? Why would I love that? The West under the leadership of the US has given us all great benefits. The US is free to negotiate but each party involved has just as much right to a decent deal even if their name isn't the USA. The US had a great run until Trump spat on them, now the one with the Pacific fell apart and the EU is walking all over Trump with empty promises he doesn't get are empty. The current system is set up on giving and taking to the immense benefit of the US who established the whole thing. This idea that the US is losing or it is some kind of zero sum game is like outdated by three centuries. Mercantilism is dead and buried, no matter what Trump and the guy Jared dug up on Amazon believe.
Mexico isn't sorted out, again don't count the chickens. Why would Canada fold? If Canada refuses then Trump would somehow have to get rid of NAFTA, like that is really going to happen, its a Republican pet project.
But go on with the zero sum mentality and thinking the US has to rule over its 'subjects', the American Empire was nice while it lasted I guess. Time to become the imperialists the US always pretended to hate.
This is all empty rhetoric without anything resembling logic backing it up.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 17:20:29
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
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Disciple of Fate wrote: Hardly, Canada hasn't involved itself in talks so far and the incoming Mexican president has already stated he wants to make changes. The US has five days to work everything out with Canada before that happens, it took over a year so far. Its unlikely to be finished quickly enough in its current form to be passed before he takes office. Don't count your ducks and all that.
Keep thinking change isn't coming. Note the date and time, and we'll check back in a year.
So if we keep it as vague as possible we can count it as change? NAFTA was change, NAFTA 2 is change, I fail to see how exactly NAFTA 2 is any better than 1, except for it being more updated to the economy a few decades later. The US hasn't even gotten Mexico to agree to the parts the US really wants yet, the general part is always the easiest. Saying change is coming is just an empty slogan unless you actually have something to back up the fact that this time the US supposedly isn't getting "ripped off".
Change itself is progress.
Change for the sake of change, always gotta love that.
Vote Tzeentch!
And I know you would love to see the US fail at re-negotiating these new deals, for it to fail at facing so many at once, and for it to give into to the realization that when the world, and our so called allies, dictates to the US that this will be how things will be, that it folds and accepts it. There were some Americans posting on here some months ago ready to do that very thing.
All the good old "y'all hate america" trope...
And this is a reminder that when we finally get around to doing something about something, we actually make it happen.
Well, we make announcements happen.
Nothing has actually happened yet. What we have is an announcement potential new trade agreement, that is not NAFTA, that must now get Canada on board to have anything to do with changing NAFTA, and pass through their respective governments, which is nowhere near certain.
Nothing has really happened, just as with North Korea.
This should have happened years ago. Now the Mexico thing is being sorted out, Canada will have to come to the realization they will have to get on board too, as they are now the odd man out.
This depends on a very wide array of factors that are nowhere near in alignment.
I expect everyone to put up a fight, but before long, that dream that everyone had of a steadfast united front against change, and conveniently keep the way things were, will give way to the reminder who really has the power around here when we want to use it. And that has to burn.
Aaaaand there it is
"They'll bend the knee"
Lets wait for something to actually happen and get ratified, we are a looooooooooooong way off from that.
At some point everyone else is going to go from 'no', to how can we come out of this with some benefit. Even China.
Citation needed, or are we going to draw a bullseye around wherever the arrow happens to land later?
Ultimately I'm seeing lots of premature hopeful daydreaming, but very little on concrete international trade specifics.
Nobody is really against updating and reforming NAFTA, its been a quarter century and thats probably warranted. What people are against is waving a a big **** around like its something people havent seen before and assuming everyone is gonna be impressed and just do what we want because we suddenly think we're being treated unfairly by big mean ol' Mexico.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 17:42:07
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
It takes a powerful dose of cognitive dissonance indeed to look at Trump's record with making deals and imagine that he will be able to craft an international trade deal.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
feeder wrote: It takes a powerful dose of cognitive dissonance indeed to look at Trump's record with making deals and imagine that he will be able to craft an international trade deal.
Yeah it's not like he sold a million copies of a book called "The Art of the Deal". That was more for comedic effect . Looking at the mans business history - you see a lot of complicated up's and downs. Pretty sure crafting deals was a large part of it. It probably helps if you don't think of him as an idiot. He is obviously very smart.
That doesn't mean he doesn't do dumb things. Or doesn't know things that he should know. Deals is something he knows though. You will probably be mind blown when all the deals he says get worked out in the betterment of the US. Even if it's only a little.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 18:10:10
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Again, Trump would be richer now if he had just invested the money he got from his dad in an index fund and done nothing else. All of his businesses have performed below the stock market average, even the ones that didn't go bankrupt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 18:10:47
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Again, Trump would be richer now if he had just invested the money he got from his dad in an index fund and done nothing else. All of his businesses have performed below the stock market average, even the ones that didn't go bankrupt.
Maybe - but would he be president if he did that? Doubtful. What if this was his plan all along? Gain fame and notoriety and make a run at the presidency? Also - lets be real here - he is a billionaire.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
It certainly is comedic that a man infamous for broken deals, business failure and multiple bankruptcies could sell a book about being good at deal making. So funny one could cry, you might say.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Again, Trump would be richer now if he had just invested the money he got from his dad in an index fund and done nothing else. All of his businesses have performed below the stock market average, even the ones that didn't go bankrupt.
Maybe - but would he be president if he did that? Doubtful. What if this was his plan all along? Gain fame and notoriety and make a run at the presidency? Also - lets be real here - he is a billionaire.
Citation needed. Not that being a billionaire makes you smart.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 18:15:06
feeder wrote: It takes a powerful dose of cognitive dissonance indeed to look at Trump's record with making deals and imagine that he will be able to craft an international trade deal.
Yeah it's not like he sold a million copies of a book called "The Art of the Deal". That was more for comedic effect . Looking at the mans business history - you see a lot of complicated up's and downs. Pretty sure crafting deals was a large part of it. It probably helps if you don't think of him as an idiot. He is obviously very smart.
It's very easy to fail upwards when you start with a boatload of cash, a wealth of connections, and ghost writers.
Lets not confuse a talent for self promotion with being intelligent. The former can be a very powerful and useful ability, but does not imply the latter.
Intelligent people dont hire people like Omarosa, Cohen, Huckabee-Sanders, Kudlow, Spicer, Scaramucci, etc ad nauseum for the positions they were given, or publicly pick fights with their hand-chosen Attorney General, and they generally dont rant on Twitter with the vocabulary of a 4th grader while responding to complements or criticism like an attention-starved child.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Change itself is progress. And I know you would love to see the US fail at re-negotiating these new deals, for it to fail at facing so many at once, and for it to give into to the realization that when the world, and our so called allies, dictates to the US that this will be how things will be, that it folds and accepts it. There were some Americans posting on here some months ago ready to do that very thing. And this is a reminder that when we finally get around to doing something about something, we actually make it happen. This should have happened years ago. Now the Mexico thing is being sorted out, Canada will have to come to the realization they will have to get on board too, as they are now the odd man out. I expect everyone to put up a fight, but before long, that dream that everyone had of a steadfast united front against change, and conveniently keep the way things were, will give way to the reminder who really has the power around here when we want to use it. And that has to burn.
At some point everyone else is going to go from 'no', to how can we come out of this with some benefit. Even China.
I would just like to point out the 8 years of Obama where "change" was literally part of the slogan. How did conservatives and republicans react to that message again? Oh, thats right by "taking their country back" and declaring everything the man did as an abject failure all while embracing every cracked conspiracy theory they could to justify their unreasonable fear of change. This isn't change so much as reality TV where the only winners are the people delusional enough to believe its all really happening exactly as its presented. Mango Jesus shakes hands with dictators and presto blamo, peace on the Korean peninsula
Prestor Jon wrote: There are criticisms that can be levied against McCain, he certainly wasn't a perfect person or politician but at various times in his life, during his military and political career when he found himself in situations that allowed him to show his character, he showed a level of integrity and courage that we should do a better job of demanding from all of our leaders. The systems we've put in place are too big to be changed by just one person regardless of the office or position they hold but when leaders decide to take a stand and fight the good fight we need to respect it and be willing to hold ourselves to a similar standard.
I see this moment as sort of the big split in the Republican party. This is a decent man, who has different political views than his opponent. And some of his supporters are *shocked* to hear that he doesn't think his opponent is the spawn of Satan. This was the start of the downward trend towards out current president, and the separation between the old and new republican party. I can only hope that decent people win out in the end.
That and the Palin Effect. The two go hand-in-hand and occurred around the same time. The zeitgeist in the Republican Party really changed noticeably after that election cycle.
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feeder wrote: It takes a powerful dose of cognitive dissonance indeed to look at Trump's record with making deals and imagine that he will be able to craft an international trade deal.
Yeah it's not like he sold a million copies of a book called "The Art of the Deal". That was more for comedic effect . Looking at the mans business history - you see a lot of complicated up's and downs. Pretty sure crafting deals was a large part of it. It probably helps if you don't think of him as an idiot. He is obviously very smart.
It's very easy to fail upwards when you start with a boatload of cash, a wealth of connections, and ghost writers.
Lets not confuse a talent for self promotion with being intelligent. The former can be a very powerful and useful ability, but does not imply the latter.
Intelligent people dont hire people like Omarosa, Cohen, Huckabee-Sanders, Kudlow, Spicer, Scaramucci, etc ad nauseum for the positions they were given, or publicly pick fights with their hand-chosen Attorney General, and they generally dont rant on Twitter with the vocabulary of a 4th grader while responding to complements or criticism like an attention-starved child.
He did graduate from University of Pennsylvania no? So I'm sure his vocabulary was adequate enough to pass ENC1102.
It's easy to fail upwards? That is more like a citation needed. Somehow losing money - gains you money? I see. Is this the kind of stuff they spout on CNN? I will give you that he doesn't have a great ability to judge peoples character even though he claims to. I will give you that he had a lot of failures in his business career. He did in fact obviously have more successful deals than failures though because he is in the green. That is common sense.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
He is in the green because his lawyers protected him very well from his failures and people kept handing him money because of his 'brand'. He only picks up the check for other people's work, unless he leaves you with the bill, like all those small business owners he ripped off.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
feeder wrote: It takes a powerful dose of cognitive dissonance indeed to look at Trump's record with making deals and imagine that he will be able to craft an international trade deal.
Yeah it's not like he sold a million copies of a book called "The Art of the Deal". That was more for comedic effect . Looking at the mans business history - you see a lot of complicated up's and downs. Pretty sure crafting deals was a large part of it. It probably helps if you don't think of him as an idiot. He is obviously very smart.
It's very easy to fail upwards when you start with a boatload of cash, a wealth of connections, and ghost writers.
Lets not confuse a talent for self promotion with being intelligent. The former can be a very powerful and useful ability, but does not imply the latter.
Intelligent people dont hire people like Omarosa, Cohen, Huckabee-Sanders, Kudlow, Spicer, Scaramucci, etc ad nauseum for the positions they were given, or publicly pick fights with their hand-chosen Attorney General, and they generally dont rant on Twitter with the vocabulary of a 4th grader while responding to complements or criticism like an attention-starved child.
He did graduate from University of Pennsylvania no? So I'm sure his vocabulary was adequate enough to pass ENC1102.
Fifty years ago, who knows
It's easy to fail upwards? That is more like a citation needed. Somehow losing money - gains you money? I see.
Not what I was getting at.
To explain in more detail, when you have gobs of money and connections, making more money is pretty trivial. As most every self made millionaire will tell you, its the first million thats the hard part.
If I want to go out and start a large real estate business today, I'm gonna have to bust my ass off for years if not decades to acquire the capital to even get into that, and my first deals are going to likely threaten to ruin me if they go belly-up, and imma have to fight and claw with competitors and lenders and regulators to get what I want. If I can just show up with the capital and either already know or can get intros to everyone I need, then that whole process is dramatically simpler and less expensive and way less risky, and if a deal does fail im way more insulated and can try again, and my connections likely reduce the impact of failure as well. I can have ten deals fall through and still be crazy rich and have people come to me for business deals. I can sit there and play the odds and have one deal make up for a dozen other failures. When you have that kind of capital, you can fail an awful lot and still come out quite wealthy. All sorts of tools and options are available when you have lots of money and connections.
Is this the kind of stuff they spout on CNN?
I couldn't tell you, any more than I could tell you whats on Fox or MSNBC right now.
He did in fact obviously have more successful deals than failures though because he is in the green. That is common sense.
We have no idea if he is in the black. We have no idea how much he is actually worth. We have no idea how much his fortune has grown or shrunk. We have no idea what ratio of his deals were successful or failed, or how success/failure was judged, especially in more recent years.
Trump put a whole lot of effort into concealing that. Hence why we don't have tax returns for a sitting President for example for the first time in fifty years.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Again, Trump would be richer now if he had just invested the money he got from his dad in an index fund and done nothing else. All of his businesses have performed below the stock market average, even the ones that didn't go bankrupt.
Maybe - but would he be president if he did that? Doubtful. What if this was his plan all along? Gain fame and notoriety and make a run at the presidency? Also - lets be real here - he is a billionaire.
I doubt that Trump actually wanted to win the election. It would've suited him perfectly to lose. He'd gain the publicity and support of becoming a martyr to the most established establishment candidate, and he wouldn't have to do all the work of being a president. He'd be free to pursue whatever he felt like.
d-usa wrote: We don’t even know how “rich” Trump actually is.
I'd argue we know a lot more about how rich trump actually is (you add up all his available assets - It's not that hard) Than we do about how many illegal immigrants cross the boarder and are living here illegally. Many of you seem perfectly happy to accept those estimates which don't have any real basis. You'll even make some pretty absolute claims like "Most of the illegals don't cross at the boarder" or some other crap that can't be verified. However - trump - he can't actually be rich - because he is stupid.
Again, Trump would be richer now if he had just invested the money he got from his dad in an index fund and done nothing else. All of his businesses have performed below the stock market average, even the ones that didn't go bankrupt.
Maybe - but would he be president if he did that? Doubtful. What if this was his plan all along? Gain fame and notoriety and make a run at the presidency? Also - lets be real here - he is a billionaire.
I doubt that Trump actually wanted to win the election. It would've suited him perfectly to lose. He'd gain the publicity and support of becoming a martyr to the most established establishment candidate, and he wouldn't have to do all the work of being a president. He'd be free to pursue whatever he felt like.
Reasonable - we might never know though. I've seen video of him on Opera 30 something years ago talking about maybe making a run if he thought the country needed him to. Plus if he really didn't want to be Pres - he could have just backed down, he could have deliberately tanked at the end. Candidates do that all the time. I think he enjoys the power (Who wouldn't)?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 19:17:07
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Prestor Jon wrote: There are criticisms that can be levied against McCain, he certainly wasn't a perfect person or politician but at various times in his life, during his military and political career when he found himself in situations that allowed him to show his character, he showed a level of integrity and courage that we should do a better job of demanding from all of our leaders. The systems we've put in place are too big to be changed by just one person regardless of the office or position they hold but when leaders decide to take a stand and fight the good fight we need to respect it and be willing to hold ourselves to a similar standard.
Is this really as positive as it's being presented as?
"He's an Arab"
"No, he's a decent family man."
It's pretty hard to slice that any other way that Arabs are the opposite of decent.
Just look at HRC's hair there though. It looks like a 90 year old who just rolled out of bed at a nursing home.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 19:28:02
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
d-usa wrote: We don’t even know how “rich” Trump actually is.
I'd argue we know a lot more about how rich trump actually is (you add up all his available assets - It's not that hard)
That is a calculation that is composed of nearly 100% question marks.
Yup. How many of Trump's properties are owned outright, for example? What percentage of that total asset calculation is actually debt owned by financiers?
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
d-usa wrote: We don’t even know how “rich” Trump actually is.
I'd argue we know a lot more about how rich trump actually is (you add up all his available assets - It's not that hard)
That is a calculation that is composed of nearly 100% question marks.
Yup. How many of Trump's properties are owned outright, for example? What percentage of that total asset calculation is actually debt owned by financiers?
I am not an expert in finance - but can't we assume when Forbes makes an estimate that they take all the into consideration? Isn't a lot of that information public anyhow?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 19:27:30
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Trump only has success and fancy buildings with his name on it because he is being financed and backed by Putin and other Russian oligarchs.
I mean, that statement is as accurate as anything else we are going to get without him actually showing any kind of proof of how much money he makes and spends.
The other failure in the argument is that we are somehow presenting "being rich" or "being successful" as being evidence of "being smart".
The history books are filled with smart people failing, and dumb people succeeding. You can be the richest dumbest person alive, because being one does not provide evidence of being the other. Trump has surrounded himself with plenty dumb successful people.
d-usa wrote: Trump only has success and fancy buildings with his name on it because he is being financed and backed by Putin and other Russian oligarchs.
I mean, that statement is as accurate as anything else we are going to get without him actually showing any kind of proof of how much money he makes and spends.
The other failure in the argument is that we are somehow presenting "being rich" or "being successful" as being evidence of "being smart".
The history books are filled with smart people failing, and dumb people succeeding. You can be the richest dumbest person alive, because being one does not provide evidence of being the other. Trump has surrounded himself with plenty dumb successful people.
I was merely trying to argue that he was successful in a complicated areas - which implies a certain amount of intelligence. Not arguing that making $ = being smart. Seriously - just consider how persuasive he is with certain kinds of people - that requires a certain amount of intelligence too.
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d-usa wrote: Trump only has success and fancy buildings with his name on it because he is being financed and backed by Putin and other Russian oligarchs.
I mean, that statement is as accurate as anything else we are going to get without him actually showing any kind of proof of how much money he makes and spends.
The other failure in the argument is that we are somehow presenting "being rich" or "being successful" as being evidence of "being smart".
The history books are filled with smart people failing, and dumb people succeeding. You can be the richest dumbest person alive, because being one does not provide evidence of being the other. Trump has surrounded himself with plenty dumb successful people.
Congrats, you just solved a riddle that has been unsolvable since Trump refused to actually release his tax return.
Which apparently is completely in his rights to do.
With the amount of effort that has been put into sacking trump do you really think this document hasn't been "leaked" somehow to the public? Plus the ongoing 2 year investigation into trump - you know for a fact that they have seen it. If there was evidence of something illegal a case would be made IMMEDIATELY. Wouldn't it? Might we find out he is less rich than he claims? Possible. There are a lot of things we can gather about his wealth simply by counting what he publicly claims to own.
I do agree with you though that at least in the case for running for president. Your entire financial owning should be available to be reviewed by congress.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 19:41:06
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
d-usa wrote: Trump only has success and fancy buildings with his name on it because he is being financed and backed by Putin and other Russian oligarchs.
I mean, that statement is as accurate as anything else we are going to get without him actually showing any kind of proof of how much money he makes and spends.
The other failure in the argument is that we are somehow presenting "being rich" or "being successful" as being evidence of "being smart".
The history books are filled with smart people failing, and dumb people succeeding. You can be the richest dumbest person alive, because being one does not provide evidence of being the other. Trump has surrounded himself with plenty dumb successful people.
I was merely trying to argue that he was successful in a complicated areas - which implies a certain amount of intelligence. Not arguing that making $ = being smart. Seriously - just consider how persuasive he is with certain kinds of people - that requires a certain amount of intelligence too.
Owning buildings given to you by your father and selling the usage of your name for other buildings isn't complicated.
Trump steaks failed. Trump vodka failed. Trump fails when some kind of technical knowledge of a product is required for the business to be successful. That does not suggest intelligence.
Neither does being able to persuade people who can typically be described as rejecting reality. Rejecting reality is something Trump is very familiar with, after all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/27 19:42:49
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. Looking at the mans business history - you see a lot of complicated up's and downs. Pretty sure crafting deals was a large part of it. It probably helps if you don't think of him as an idiot. He is obviously very smart.
