Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

In order to get those 4+ saves you need to burn 2Cp though, unless boyz now have 5+ saves base. Still bloody good though.

2 cp is a joke. It hits 30 guys and lasts all game. Guard has +1 to a 10 man unit for a phase at 1cp. How anyone can figure thats expensive is beyond me. A single blood axe battalion brings 5 CP, so for 1 more and only 630 you get 90 4+ save boys...

 Red Corsair wrote:
Uh what? Orks didn't need the most reliable AT in the game. Cheap, doesn't degrade. Fast as feth, multiple shots, at marine BS with 3 CP rerolls per unit per phase. That means those 9 buggies would be getting 27 rerolls for free every shooting phase.

I guess now we know why the Dragsta is exclusive to a $150 box.

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

Congrats - you have what amounts to 50 point lascannons, and 1 squad of boyz with some extra saves.

2000 points
1000 - 10 Shokkjump Dragsta
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
1cp, "Lootin'"

That leaves 370 points for HQs and grots (cp farms).

So, for 7cp (which is a lot itself), you get 90 boyz that are 4-5+ save, and one that might be a 3+; I forsee the meta potentially quickly shifting to units that counter cover saves (Imperial Fists, etc); since it not only counters Blood Axes, it also counters the 2cp 2nd turn cover strategem.

The thing is, this list is about 50/50 in terms of Infantry/Vehicles - when the meta is based on skew lists; and since it doesn't skew, I imagine it'll have an interesting time. It gives all of your opponents guns (anti-tank and anti-infantry) optimal targets all around.

Nevermind you ALSO want 3cp (I imagine that's what it is) to teleport 20pl of units.

10cp for that whole list, for three squads of boyz and some double price lascannons.

Orks will certainly be Dark Eldar broken tier...I do not want to ever face a Green tide of Evil Sunz boyz with permanent 5++ and 6+++ stomping people everywhere

There is a megatrakk skrapjet in the streamed game now though, no? Looks like it in the bottom left corner

Without further details here to clarify, it sounds like the Wazbomb came down in price? if it also has a KFF. Funny thing about that one, it used to come with a twin big shoota as well as the other weapons but the twin big shoota was not on the data sheet in the index. did it come back?

Orks are probably the worst players to have a model be exclusive to a big box.

We kitbash....everything...unless the original model is just that sexy or youre one of the few ork players with no kitbashing ability.

Im getting speedfreeks but if the Dragsta turns out to be something i want multiples of i'll kitbash it LONG before i'll buy another 150 box.

 Red Corsair wrote:
This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

Better than armywide -1 to hit? Really? I disagree.

I'm down on blood axes and death skulls with the KFF rules being so stronk.

They'd be pointless on either, while complimenting evil sunz perfectly.

fe40k wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

Congrats - you have what amounts to 50 point lascannons, and 1 squad of boyz with some extra saves.

2000 points
1000 - 10 Shokkjump Dragsta
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
1cp, "Lootin'"

That leaves 370 points for HQs and grots (cp farms).

So, for 7cp (which is a lot itself), you get 90 boyz that are 4-5+ save, and one that might be a 3+; I forsee the meta potentially quickly shifting to units that counter cover saves (Imperial Fists, etc); since it not only counters Blood Axes, it also counters the 2cp 2nd turn cover strategem.

The thing is, this list is about 50/50 in terms of Infantry/Vehicles - when the meta is based on skew lists; and since it doesn't skew, I imagine it'll have an interesting time.

Nevermind you ALSO want 3cp (I imagine that's what it is) to teleport 20pl of units.

10cp for that whole list, for three squads of boyz and some double price lascannons.

That wasn't meant to be a list mate It just demonstrates how easy it is to pack both bodies, durable bodies, and ranged AT. And if you think those are just 50pt las canons your just bad.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Orks will certainly be Dark Eldar broken tier...I do not want to ever face a Green tide of Evil Sunz boyz with permanent 5++ and 6+++ stomping people everywhere

And yet people are also saying that its going to be disappointing. I think its a bit early to say one way or the other

All I was saying was, while it sounds strong, such a list doesn't provide too much in terms of actual game-winning threats; and at such a huge cp investment.

Boyz go down in droves regardless; doubly so when the enemy brings cover ignoring weapons (or army traits).

 Billagio wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Orks will certainly be Dark Eldar broken tier...I do not want to ever face a Green tide of Evil Sunz boyz with permanent 5++ and 6+++ stomping people everywhere

And yet people are also saying that its going to be disappointing. I think its a bit early to say one way or the other

It was early to say the sucked the entire month. After seeing the strats and traits in full it's easy to see how insane this will be. This isn't just OPrk players to be fair, EVERY release folks are complaining until they see the stratagems and the actual trait wording then they all start doing a 180. It was just as absurd as a DE player seeing other DE player complain about how bad the book was looking yet look where we are.

Do you really want to 6 points on boys though? That's almost the entire battalion allotment of CP.
I mean, you could do that, but that doesn't mean its a good idea.

To absolutely no one's surprise a Buggy dies instantly on stream to the Knight player awarding first blood.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Orks will certainly be Dark Eldar broken tier...I do not want to ever face a Green tide of Evil Sunz boyz with permanent 5++ and 6+++ stomping people everywhere

And yet people are also saying that its going to be disappointing. I think its a bit early to say one way or the other

It was early to say the sucked the entire month. After seeing the strats and traits in full it's easy to see how insane this will be. This isn't just OPrk players to be fair, EVERY release folks are complaining until they see the stratagems and the actual trait wording then they all start doing a 180. It was just as absurd as a DE player seeing other DE player complain about how bad the book was looking yet look where we are.

It still really depends on points.

fe40k wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

Congrats - you have what amounts to 50 point lascannons, and 1 squad of boyz with some extra saves.

2000 points
1000 - 10 Shokkjump Dragsta
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
1cp, "Lootin'"

That leaves 370 points for HQs and grots (cp farms).

So, for 7cp (which is a lot itself), you get 90 boyz that are 4-5+ save, and one that might be a 3+; I forsee the meta potentially quickly shifting to units that counter cover saves (Imperial Fists, etc); since it not only counters Blood Axes, it also counters the 2cp 2nd turn cover strategem.

The thing is, this list is about 50/50 in terms of Infantry/Vehicles - when the meta is based on skew lists; and since it doesn't skew, I imagine it'll have an interesting time.

Nevermind you ALSO want 3cp (I imagine that's what it is) to teleport 20pl of units.

10cp for that whole list, for three squads of boyz and some double price lascannons.

That wasn't meant to be a list mate It just demonstrates how easy it is to pack both bodies, durable bodies, and ranged AT. And if you think those are just 50pt las canons your just bad.

I'm not sure how to respond to this without it seeming personal.

You made a point.
I made a counter point.
"Oh, my first point wasn't meant to be a real point".

Actually,
You asked a question
I answered it by demonstrating a simple point
You missed the point entirely


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Do you really want to 6 points on boys though? That's almost the entire battalion allotment of CP.
I mean, you could do that, but that doesn't mean its a good idea.

It's a great idea. Your spending cp on a game lasting effect on durability. What esle would you spend it on? Rerolls? Because apparently there is a Kultur that just gets as many of those as it wants for free.

Okay, okay.

Evil sunz.

Kan wall in front KFF big mek center.
Painboy behind. Shootas flank painboy for auras. WAAAGH banner center.

When a Killa kan unit drops, boys pick up +1 armor save for the lulz.

Maybe a trike for the aura but idk since the speed difference is going to make that rather awkward.

Multiply for redundancy.

Anyone know what happens if you use a unit from the index that isnt in a codex, but carries a piece of wargear from the codex?

I assume the bike mek KFF is gone, but Id like to run mine and not proxy it as a mega-mek and be accused of taking advantage of the huge ass profile I made

Moving on;

What happened to the list that was being discussed pre-game? I thought that's what list they'd be running; instead, they're running a Stompa list.

Also, none of those knights moved - aren't there some melee ones in that list?

fe40k wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

fe40k wrote:
They were just mentioning that from a competitive standpoint, his plan is to get into melee; the shooting is just a bonus.

I hope a decent (albeit if not the most competitive) list can be made from shooting units.

Your joking right? You can take 9 shock jump buggies for under 1K and make them def skulls. They hit on a 3 with a free reroll to hit, wound and damage roll EACH. This book is not difficult to power game at all from the leaked cultures and strats alone.

All that crying over imaginary spilled milk with boys being 7ppm, and now what the few were telling you, wait and see, turns out to be true and worse. Turns out you can easily start the game with a full battalion of blood axes with 4+ saves and maxed defskull buggies between them form an outrider, oh whats that? They will shoot the buggies? Right, so you not only have a 6++ but when it does finally go down, without degrading, for only 1cp one of those bricks of 30 blood ax boys becomes 3+ save...

This books traits are easily the most broken the game has seen. Some of these klans are getting 2-3 other factions traits all rolled into one and some even better.

Congrats - you have what amounts to 50 point lascannons, and 1 squad of boyz with some extra saves.

2000 points
1000 - 10 Shokkjump Dragsta
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
210, 2cp - 30 Boyz
1cp, "Lootin'"

That leaves 370 points for HQs and grots (cp farms).

So, for 7cp (which is a lot itself), you get 90 boyz that are 4-5+ save, and one that might be a 3+; I forsee the meta potentially quickly shifting to units that counter cover saves (Imperial Fists, etc); since it not only counters Blood Axes, it also counters the 2cp 2nd turn cover strategem.

The thing is, this list is about 50/50 in terms of Infantry/Vehicles - when the meta is based on skew lists; and since it doesn't skew, I imagine it'll have an interesting time. It gives all of your opponents guns (anti-tank and anti-infantry) optimal targets all around.

Nevermind you ALSO want 3cp (I imagine that's what it is) to teleport 20pl of units.

10cp for that whole list, for three squads of boyz and some double price lascannons.

Don't bother arguing. I took a look at Red Corsair's other posts, and he's clearly got a thing against orks, "complainers" or both. The dragster is a nice model and situationally strong but not worth maxing out on. The reliable BS is a nice gimmick. Bikers I actually am excited about. Strong? Maybe. But the kultures open up options

 Billagio wrote:
Interesting, Gorkanauts went down to 15PL from 19. Wonder if there is a point reduction in there too. Also 10 MANZ would be 20PL as well which means they went down too (and can use teleport). 3PL trukks

Wonder if I can shove a Big Mek with KFF and the Evil Sunz armor relic in a Gorkanaut at or below 20 PL... then Tellyport them T2 for a pretty high chance of making the charge (practically guaranteed if Ramming Speed is real) with a 5++ against overwatch/ shooting attacks after enemy falls back and a bit of extra movement (and a chance to deal a mortal wound in some phase I thought?).

fe40k wrote:
"Well, in hyper competitive you won't see Stompas"
"40w, 3+ armor save"
"You're shooting like 18 shots a turn"
"Stompas are WAYYY better, but you have to remember, Orks are better"
"Orks always hitting on 6's, make the Stompa BadMoonz to reroll 1s"
"Blood Axe Stompa, 2+"
"Two meks inside, one hops out each round and heals it before it runs off"

I mean, for 940 points - I'm still not sold.

Stop pulling a Reece and hyping up a bad unit; I get you're a mouthpiece, but you're representing the only really informed individual we have at the moment; as you have the codex in hand.

Probably won't work in hyper-competitive but maybe a properly supported Stompa could be a viable option in most other environments, even at 940 points. But yeah, the cost is still steep. Also, as for comparing it to the Castellan (talking in general here, not just to you); please remember that a Castellan with Cawls' Wrath/ Ion Bulwark/ Rotate Ion Shields is incredibly undercosted for the amount of dakka it spits out and it's tankiness. First thing I'd do is nerf Cawls' Wrath instead of giving it a massive price hike though.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
23 point bikes is 2 cheaper than CSM with 1 less save and 2 more attacks plus rerolls to charge. There are some other subtle nuances, but the Orks also have access to super solid traits unlike CSM.

And worse BS (on a shooty unit). 4+ save is 16% worse than 3+ save. 2pts is not 16% pts difference. And I don't see armies of CSM bikes at tournaments, in fact, I never see any CSM bikes at tournaments.... sooo probably not the best comparison (particularly when they're better).

It is not really a shooty unit or even a smashy unit, it is first and foremost a fast unit. I think its all about getting around the table fast and controlling the space on the table. Oh and killing chaff, they are decent at killing chaff.

Paint 'em red and put one of those funky trikes nearby and they can get +2 to move, +1 to advance and charge and they get to advance and then shoot and charge without penalty. So they move 16" plus the D6 +1 advance, shoot at normal BS - then they charge 2D6 +1 with re-roll one or both dice. It is all about getting across the table super-fast and getting in that first strike. They do that much better than CSM bikers because their threat range is a lot bigger. It is a fair few points for a big unit of them but if that removes the chaff from a gunline on turn 1 setting up a nasty tellyporta / Da jump strike on turn 2 then it was worth it.

If you don't paint them red I'm not sure why you would take them. As a shooty or a smashy unit they are pretty meh. Paint go-faster stripes on them or leave them at home I say.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Actually,
You asked a question
I answered it by demonstrating a simple point
You missed the point entirely

No you didn't answer the question. The question was; "I wonder if I can make a decent shooting army?"

The SJD is a singular vehicle that is an expensive (and not so durable) Anti-armour platform. Not sure what you'd be doing against a horde of Letters, Cultists and other Infantry with this 10 SJD list? Other than losing of course.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
To absolutely no one's surprise a Buggy dies instantly on stream to the Knight player awarding first blood.

Someone was stupid enough to bring buggies v. knights?

Let me know how that game goes!

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
To absolutely no one's surprise a Buggy dies instantly on stream to the Knight player awarding first blood.

Someone was stupid enough to bring buggies v. knights?

Let me know how that game goes!

Yeah, the megatrakk skrapjet died instantly I'm afraid. So we still don't know its stats

Supa Gatling rule revealed -

After you finish firing it, you can roll a die. On a 2+ you can shoot again, on a 1 you run out of ammunition and you lose it for the game.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Supa Gatling rule revealed -

After you finish firing it, you can roll a die. On a 2+ you can shoot again, on a 1 you run out of ammunition and you lose it for the game.

Can you CP reroll it??

 JimOnMars wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Supa Gatling rule revealed -

After you finish firing it, you can roll a die. On a 2+ you can shoot again, on a 1 you run out of ammunition and you lose it for the game.

Can you CP reroll it??

I would assume so

 JimOnMars wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Supa Gatling rule revealed -

After you finish firing it, you can roll a die. On a 2+ you can shoot again, on a 1 you run out of ammunition and you lose it for the game.

Can you CP reroll it??

I think you can, I don't see how you couldn't. He didn't roll a 1, so it didn't come up.