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HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd go more likely that the author got a relatively minor detail wrong.

Or maybe it's intentional, to make the reader question the account... DUN DUN DUUUNN!

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'd go more likely that the author got a relatively minor detail wrong.

If its a mistake why is a bronze knife constantly mentioned. If it was a mistake he would have only mention the bronze knife once. He's smart enough to research these things as they were purposely put in there, flint knife, trading, agriculture, dogs, bronze knife etc. and some of them were pretty randomly thrown in there.

Considering that most details seem to match the original date and the changing it couple of thousand years would not matter at all so changing it would be pointless, I find it far more likely that it is a mistake than an intentional change.

So why does he plan to go to the cradle of civilisation, the city of Uruk (the first city) which is 5000 BC, after that village.

"The boy’s momentary silence told Ra that he had guessed wrong. ‘We are not far removed from those
beginnings, Ra, either in distance or time. You could walk to the cradle of civilisation from here, where
men and women made the very first city. When I leave this village, that is where I will go. That journey is
coming soon. But no, that is not what I mean when I speak of beginnings.’
The boy turned the skull over in his hands, just as he had done in the hut before. ‘This is where I first
learned the truth behind our species. This very eve, as I held my father’s skull and considered how to
restore his features according to our burial rites. When I learned of his murder, it was a revelation into the
heart of all of mankind. This is a world that has no need of you yet, Ra. It has no need for Imperial
bodyguards, for it is a world that knows nothing of emperors, or warlords, or conquerors. And therefore it
knows nothing of unity. Nothing of law."

How many hints do you need, how many times could the writer be wrong. He's have to know the date of Uruk.

Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar. Plus the Epic of Gilgamesh has some cool stories about autocratic gods and seeking of immortality, which has some nice parallels and Utnapishtim seems like the deal on Molech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk

You do realize there Uruk isn't necessarily the oldest city, and that chances are we don't know the exact first one since time makes it hard to keep track of such things. As for him knowing when Uruk was around or the exact date of bronze daggers, it would not surprise me if he didn't. I think your over estimating how much research an author would do for a relatively small detail. Finally like almost anything the emperor says to anyone who isn't Malcador, i'd take it with a grain of salt.

If we reject the idea that ADB could be wrong, then the only other possibility is that those inconsistencies are intentional.

Either ADB got stuff wrong or Emps is spinning a yarn, intentionally or otherwise.

What's the point of this thread? You obviously have your mind set on your beliefs. Besides, didnt big Emp show Ra all that so he could seal that deamon in him? That was the point right? To show Ra the first murder of mankind so he would have an emotional connection to that Deamon.

Ah, another DC vs. the rest of Dakka thread; because he's totes right and you shouldn't even bother to argue.



40k's own history goes back further than our own currently recorded history. The Emp's (alleged) birth is even further back than that. I personally sub to the theory that he's a fraud. A Techno Barbarian Psyker from a few thousand years before The Age of Strife (where was he when the Men of Iron came, hm?) that used his powers and tech to take over.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar.

But there are multiple cradles and "first cities", as first city was used by people in ancient Mesopotamia as well. So maybe the Emperor refers to another city as the first city and not the archaeological first city! Maybe ABD is so clever he realized the use of 'first city' in Mesopotamia and uses the term to have Empy refer to Jericho or Eridu! Its ABD inception! Does ABD distinguish between proto-cities and the first 'true' cities? Nobody has a clue, you're just reading into it what you want to read.

Now to think about it, if Grand Goldilocks is supposed to be so awesome and cool and clairvoyant that he not only figured out his need for AdMech during the Middle Ages but also managed to deliver the Dragon to a safe location on Mars - Why didn't he just store some STCs away in equally safe locations?

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Now to think about it, if Grand Goldilocks is supposed to be so awesome and cool and clairvoyant that he not only figured out his need for AdMech during the Middle Ages but also managed to deliver the Dragon to a safe location on Mars - Why didn't he just store some STCs away in equally safe locations?

Because as I said, he wasn't alive at that point in history.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Now to think about it, if Grand Goldilocks is supposed to be so awesome and cool and clairvoyant that he not only figured out his need for AdMech during the Middle Ages but also managed to deliver the Dragon to a safe location on Mars - Why didn't he just store some STCs away in equally safe locations?

Because as I said, he wasn't alive at that point in history.

Indeed

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
Now to think about it, if Grand Goldilocks is supposed to be so awesome and cool and clairvoyant that he not only figured out his need for AdMech during the Middle Ages but also managed to deliver the Dragon to a safe location on Mars - Why didn't he just store some STCs away in equally safe locations?

He seemed to have gotten blindsided quite a bit, maybe it was the Chaos Gods that made him unable to see the Age of Strife coming (if he can even see the future)? He didn't see it coming when they scattered the Primarchs or all the other crap that got throw at humanity and even the GC.

 Grimtuff wrote:


40k's own history goes back further than our own currently recorded history. The Emp's (alleged) birth is even further back than that. I personally sub to the theory that he's a fraud. A Techno Barbarian Psyker from a few thousand years before The Age of Strife (where was he when the Men of Iron came, hm?) that used his powers and tech to take over.

Yeah, my preferred interpretation as well.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk

You do realize there Uruk isn't necessarily the oldest city, and that chances are we don't know the exact first one since time makes it hard to keep track of such things. As for him knowing when Uruk was around or the exact date of bronze daggers, it would not surprise me if he didn't. I think your over estimating how much research an author would do for a relatively small detail. Finally like almost anything the emperor says to anyone who isn't Malcador, i'd take it with a grain of salt.

Jesus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:
If we reject the idea that ADB could be wrong, then the only other possibility is that those inconsistencies are intentional.

Either ADB got stuff wrong or Emps is spinning a yarn, intentionally or otherwise.

No, those are not the only two possibilities at all. Explain how you rule out he was telling the truth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kinratha wrote:
What's the point of this thread? You obviously have your mind set on your beliefs. Besides, didnt big Emp show Ra all that so he could seal that deamon in him? That was the point right? To show Ra the first murder of mankind so he would have an emotional connection to that Deamon.

Whats the point in your comment. No he just sealed the daemon in him, no where does it say he showed Ra all that to seal the daemon, some things he showed him, but even the Emperor said he told him to illuminate him, you don't do that by telling lies.

"The Custodian fell to his knees, hands curling around the impaling blade. The thwarted rage of the
daemon sent nerve pain lightning-bolting through his fingers.
‘Why?’ Ra asked his king.
The Emperor stood tall once more, looking down, eyes cold.
In that moment, Ra knew. The Emperor’s words, spoken what felt like an eternity ago, flashed through
his blackening mind, infusing his thoughts with red revelation.
To illuminate you, the Emperor had said, as they looked upon the wonders and sins of the galaxy’s past.
You will fight harder once you understand what you are fighting for.
And now he knew. Ra Endymion, the one living soul shown the entirety of his master’s dreams and
ambitions. An enlightenment not gleaned for the purpose of waging war, but… for this. To know the truth
when all others believed in shadows and fragments, and to suffer that truth until it tore him apart.
Ra rose on shaking limbs, leaning on his spear for support. The sword was gone now. The daemon was
within him, caged by his flesh, bound by his agony-drenched will. He felt its tendrils circling his bones,
wrenching at them, thrashing in its need to reach the Master of Mankind. The creature tunnelling through"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Ah, another DC vs. the rest of Dakka thread; because he's totes right and you shouldn't even bother to argue.



40k's own history goes back further than our own currently recorded history. The Emp's (alleged) birth is even further back than that. I personally sub to the theory that he's a fraud. A Techno Barbarian Psyker from a few thousand years before The Age of Strife (where was he when the Men of Iron came, hm?) that used his powers and tech to take over.

More like people love to argue with me because of my sparkling personality. Most people aren't that intellectually gifted, so if everyone is disagreeing with me, I take that as a compliment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar.

But there are multiple cradles and "first cities", as first city was used by people in ancient Mesopotamia as well. So maybe the Emperor refers to another city as the first city and not the archaeological first city! Maybe ABD is so clever he realized the use of 'first city' in Mesopotamia and uses the term to have Empy refer to Jericho or Eridu! Its ABD inception! Does ABD distinguish between proto-cities and the first 'true' cities? Nobody has a clue, you're just reading into it what you want to read.

Again I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar.

But there are multiple cradles and "first cities", as first city was used by people in ancient Mesopotamia as well. So maybe the Emperor refers to another city as the first city and not the archaeological first city! Maybe ABD is so clever he realized the use of 'first city' in Mesopotamia and uses the term to have Empy refer to Jericho or Eridu! Its ABD inception! Does ABD distinguish between proto-cities and the first 'true' cities? Nobody has a clue, you're just reading into it what you want to read.

Again I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

More like people love to argue with me because of my sparkling personality. Most people aren't that intellectually gifted, so if everyone is disagreeing with me, I take that as a compliment.

Oh, so you're one of those people that ends up on r/iamverysmart frequently.

Duly noted.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar.

But there are multiple cradles and "first cities", as first city was used by people in ancient Mesopotamia as well. So maybe the Emperor refers to another city as the first city and not the archaeological first city! Maybe ABD is so clever he realized the use of 'first city' in Mesopotamia and uses the term to have Empy refer to Jericho or Eridu! Its ABD inception! Does ABD distinguish between proto-cities and the first 'true' cities? Nobody has a clue, you're just reading into it what you want to read.

Again I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

More like people love to argue with me because of my sparkling personality. Most people aren't that intellectually gifted, so if everyone is disagreeing with me, I take that as a compliment.

Oh, so you're one of those people that ends up on r/iamverysmart frequently.

Duly noted.

REMOVED - BROOKM

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar.

But there are multiple cradles and "first cities", as first city was used by people in ancient Mesopotamia as well. So maybe the Emperor refers to another city as the first city and not the archaeological first city! Maybe ABD is so clever he realized the use of 'first city' in Mesopotamia and uses the term to have Empy refer to Jericho or Eridu! Its ABD inception! Does ABD distinguish between proto-cities and the first 'true' cities? Nobody has a clue, you're just reading into it what you want to read.

Again I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.

Cradle of civilization is the Richat structure. Fight me IRL.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

More like people love to argue with me because of my sparkling personality. Most people aren't that intellectually gifted, so if everyone is disagreeing with me, I take that as a compliment.

Oh, so you're one of those people that ends up on r/iamverysmart frequently.

Duly noted.

Far smarter than you and its satisfying to know that.

That's.... that's not a good thing.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Or more likely ABD doesn't name it Uruk but the first city because he doesn't know what the first city was, saying first city is just convenient without having to know more.

Saying the cradle of civilisation and the first city. Absolutely means he knows what Uruk is. The cradle of civilisation was Mesopotamia and Sumeria was where the first city was and the first city was Uruk. Its classical education. Its like saying I will go to Sodom and Gomorrah to see the salt pillar.

But there are multiple cradles and "first cities", as first city was used by people in ancient Mesopotamia as well. So maybe the Emperor refers to another city as the first city and not the archaeological first city! Maybe ABD is so clever he realized the use of 'first city' in Mesopotamia and uses the term to have Empy refer to Jericho or Eridu! Its ABD inception! Does ABD distinguish between proto-cities and the first 'true' cities? Nobody has a clue, you're just reading into it what you want to read.

Again I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.

Cradle of civilization is the Richat structure. Fight me IRL.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

More like people love to argue with me because of my sparkling personality. Most people aren't that intellectually gifted, so if everyone is disagreeing with me, I take that as a compliment.

Oh, so you're one of those people that ends up on r/iamverysmart frequently.

Duly noted.

Far smarter than you and its satisfying to know that.

That's.... that's not a good thing.

Did you pretend to read a book in order to come up with that? Pistols at dawn.

Holy gak! Now scrolling down this thread looks like I'm flying over Ziggurats.

It's like a visual representation of a cradle of civilization...

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


Far smarter than you and its satisfying to know that.

You're unreal! And that's pretty rich from a person who cannot even grasp how fiction works!

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:


Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.

Pro tip, in modern academia there are cradles of civilization. China is a cradle of civilization, are you arguing ABD is telling us the Emperor is Chinese?

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:


Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.

Pro tip, in modern academia there are cradles of civilization. China is a cradle of civilization, are you arguing ABD is telling us the Emperor is Chinese?

Jesus... He was born in Anatolia.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Holy gak! Now scrolling down this thread looks like I'm flying over Ziggurats.

It's like a visual representation of a cradle of civilization...

Damn this actually made me IRL lol and not the internetkind of lol

 Crimson wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:


Far smarter than you and its satisfying to know that.

You're unreal! And that's pretty rich from a person who cannot even grasp how fiction works!

Seriously I am. I mean the comments from all of you. I cannot roll my eyes back into my head far enough.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:


Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.

Pro tip, in modern academia there are cradles of civilization. China is a cradle of civilization, are you arguing ABD is telling us the Emperor is Chinese?

There is a guy that said Jesus was Chinese.
Big E could have totally been Jesus in one of his previous lives.

Therefore The Emperor of Mankind is Chinese.

You can't argue with that.

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:

 Disciple of Fate wrote:


Its as valid as you reading into ADB's knowledge on Mesopotamia and ancient metallurgy based on two throwaway words.

No its just stupid, especially when he is talking about the cradle of civilisation.

Pro tip, in modern academia there are cradles of civilization. China is a cradle of civilization, are you arguing ABD is telling us the Emperor is Chinese?

Jesus... He was born in Anatolia.

Or so he claims!